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The Future Of Dentistry Is Cr*p...

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Doing medicine is not a guarantee these days either - and they are getting hammered with their own set of problems.

 

Corps are not the norm in Canada and won't be for some time. Even in the States, corps are everywhere but people can still do fine as peactice owners. Tougher, but fine.

 

Perhaps your view of dentistry is stuck in the golden ages, but like most healthcare professions that sadly isn't the case anymore and you will have to accept that. You can still achieve all the bullet points you listed (actually Pauls brother is doing phenomenally well in a suburb as a practice owner who created his own practice 4 years ago) but you need to be smarter about things.

 

Cheers

 

I'm a pre-dent student who naively thought that dentistry was still in the golden ages. I'm glad I started this thread so that others like me can really see what this profession entails before deciding what they want to pursue. I'm not saying don't go into dentistry, but don't have high expectations either. 

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That's why it's super important to not choose dentistry solely for the money. You have to think what if my salary was decreased by X amount, would I still do it? For me I don't really care. In fact, I wouldn't mind it decreasing so that people can finally stop thinking or telling me "you only want to be a dentist for the money". I hate those kinds of comments about dentistry so I hope it changes soon.

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That's why it's super important to not choose dentistry solely for the money. You have to think what if my salary was decreased by X amount, would I still do it? For me I don't really care. In fact, I wouldn't mind it decreasing so that people can finally stop thinking or telling me "you only want to be a dentist for the money". I very much dislike those kind of comments about dentistry so I hope it changes soon.

 

Don't get me wrong, again, I shadowed  a dentist and love the work, but the question here, is it worth it? Is the considerable amount of debt and the hours studying and the stress all worth it? It's easy right now to say I don't care about salary but when you're almost 30 years old and trying to pay off dept and the cost of your clinic and your team and just getting by, you won't have fun in life and you won't be able to start a family. 

 

Edit: Don't even bother trying to get a mortgage on a house or buy a good car...

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Don't get me wrong, again, I shadowed  a dentist and love the work, but the question here, is it worth it? Is the considerable amount of debt and the hours studying and the stress all worth it? It's easy right now to say I don't care about salary but when you're almost 30 years old and trying to pay off dept and the cost of your clinic and your team and just getting by, you won't have fun in life and you won't be able to start a family. 

 

Edit: Don't even bother trying to get a mortgage on a house or buy a good car...

 

If you are able to get into a cheaper Canadian school, work some summer jobs, and earn some scholarships, the debt is very low and maybe could be 0 (and hence manageable) if you have some parental support at places like McGill and Montreal. This is what good grades will do for you since Canadian schools are tougher to get into than US counterparts for the most part (and command a 300K to 500K tuition compared to less than 90K in some places in Canada). Some people in the US do the military route to have their tuition fully covered, it is a pretty solid option for them.

 

Once again, your post has a couple of strong assumptions. I will end by saying that dentistry is hard work - it can be all the things you envisioned in the field but the way you construe how tough the profession is will only impede you from achieving what you want. If everyone thought as doom and gloom as you, then no one out there would believe they could be successful and carve out a great career in dentistry. But we know that is not true at all - many dentists have found a way to be successful. Go in with realistic expectations and strive to do your best. If you are as passionate as you make it seem, then you should have no issue meeting your goals despite what obstacles are in your way. Some will think all this is too hard to overcome and some will realize it is still possible and break through. I will side by the latter.

 

So yes, all of this is worth it if you are willing to be smart about things and be financially responsible with practicing.

 

And I guess based on what you wrote physicians in their early 30s will be so in the red too that a mortgage or car or fun or family in their lives is not possible at all. You tell me if that actually makes sense. :) 

 

This should mark the end of discussion. Cheers

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Don't get me wrong, again, I shadowed a dentist and love the work, but the question here, is it worth it? Is the considerable amount of debt and the hours studying and the stress all worth it? It's easy right now to say I don't care about salary but when you're almost 30 years old and trying to pay off dept and the cost of your clinic and your team and just getting by, you won't have fun in life and you won't be able to start a family.

 

Edit: Don't even bother trying to get a mortgage on a house or buy a good car...

If you love the work, it is worth it.

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I work as a full time associate dentist, 36 to 40 hours per week, and my billing is around 1200 - 2200 per day, at the moment. So with 40% deal, i made around 500 - 1000 CAD per day. I consider dentistry as a stable source of income; meanwhile, I gradually upgrading my equity and commodity trading skill :) Last month, I flipped the volatility index ETF and made 6000 in less than 24 hours during Brexit. One day, my trading skill and wealth will be enough for me to work one day per week as a dentist  ... or probably an owner :P That's the ultimate goal for me lolz

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I had a few job interviews after dental school (spend almost 500CAD for VIA train and bus), so in my experience, the norm is:

 

Ottawa city: 40%. Standard fee guide

Kingston: 40%. Standard fee guide

Montreal: 32%-35%. Tons of discount on service fee. Lots of service are freebie to attract new patient 

Toronto: 30%. So varies. No clue about the standard

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I work as a full time associate dentist, 36 to 40 hours per week, and my billing is around 1200 - 2200 per day, at the moment. So with 40% deal, i made around 500 - 1000 CAD per day. I consider dentistry as a stable source of income; meanwhile, I gradually upgrading my equity and commodity trading skill :) Last month, I flipped the volatility index ETF and made 6000 in less than 24 hours during Brexit. One day, my trading skill and wealth will be enough for me to work one day per week as a dentist  ... or probably an owner :P That's the ultimate goal for me lolz

 

Is it only you and the owner working as dentists or there's more in the clinic? 

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I had a few job interviews after dental school (spend almost 500CAD for VIA train and bus), so in my experience, the norm is:

 

Ottawa city: 40%. Standard fee guide

Kingston: 40%. Standard fee guide

Montreal: 32%-35%. Tons of discount on service fee. Lots of service are freebie to attract new patient 

Toronto: 30%. So varies. No clue about the standards

 

Wasn't the average like 50% during "the golden age" of dentistry? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's decreasing as well...

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Wasn't the average like 50% during "the golden age" of dentistry? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's decreasing as well...

50% is for specialist or GP dentist who works at rural area. I actually saw a few job offer recently in rural Manitoba and SK, looking for GP at 50%.

 

Check out this ad from https://www.mcgill.ca/dentistry/alumni/classifieds

 

Hours: Full-Time

Salary Range: 50% of billings

 

Address:

380 Eramosa Rd, Guelph, Ontario, N1E 6R2

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50% is for specialist or GP dentist who works at rural area. I actually saw a few job offer recently in rural Manitoba and SK, looking for GP at 50%.

 

Check out this ad from https://www.mcgill.ca/dentistry/alumni/classifieds

 

Hours: Full-Time

Salary Range: 50% of billings

 

Address:

380 Eramosa Rd, Guelph, Ontario, N1E 6R2

 

I see, I read on an article that they used to get 50% of billings but i might've been wrong. 

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I am a dentist, who graduated from Schulich in 2014. This thread has gotten out of control. There are a handful of posters who are knowledgeable (either dentists or dental students) and then those looking from the ther side of the pond (predentists) that are worried and perhaps misinformed in parts.

 

Predentists: I understand the worry. I heard it when I was in dental school too. But this thread has been blown way, way out of proportion. A few painters seem upset about things, and the comments and their facts are spiralling down.

 

I work in Oakville and Woodbridge ON, both close to Toronto. One practice was a new practice four years ago, one is with a long established single dentist practice.

 

I am a competent dentist, I'm cautiously quick at restorative, always felt comfortable with endo (root canal therapy) and enjoy prosthodontics (dentures). I would put myself in the top 1/3 of my class clinically, but I am not gifted, just a regular recent grad.

 

I produce on any normal day 1000-2000. If I had to pick an average, I'd say $1500. On a slow day it could be 600 (my lowest day in a year) and on a good day with a denture insertion for example it could be $3500 (my highest day this year was around $4200). I get paid 40% of collections and don't know a single friend working for less then 40%, although I'm sure someone is.

 

My first year of private practice I made $170,000. With tuition tax credits, I barely paid income tax. This helped wipe out a huge Amin t of student debt for me (I paid for dental school myself with summer work and loans).

 

My second year I'm on track to make slightly more.

 

I keep in touch with all my dental school friends, and my best friends and I talk production numbers honestly, it's not a taboo subject for us. The lowest I know is a friend working full time at a dental practice on Liberty village in Toronto, and he's making around $110,000.

 

With incorporating your dental practice, income taxes on your corporation are 10-15.5%, then you take a $65,000 salary and save for retirement within your dental Corp.

 

It really doesn't take much to produce $1000 per day. I'm not just saying that. It's nothing. Even slow practices in downtown Toronto.

 

There is crazy gloom and doom in this thread. I won't call anyone out, but some commenters are simply not accurate here.

 

Dentistry is a ton of fun too. I can't imagine sitting at a desk. When I have breaks in between patients, even long ones, I'm either working up a case, writing notes, or watching Netflix, snapchat, Facebook on my phone etc. I plan to work 4 days per week soon. Even looking forward, as bad as they make it out to be, you'll always make a pretty good salary in a great job. Even if you saw 3 patients per day you could make a great salary. You can afford a mortgage, you can marry, have kids (future dentists), it's a great life.

 

I'll stop by tomorrow to answer questions for a new grad if anyone has them, though they probably won't be as long as this post was.

 

Cheer up friends, it's gonna be good.

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Apologies for typos, on mobile

 

 

Don't worry, your post was really informative and I agree with you that this thread is spiralling down. I think the problem is that it's really hard to have clear cut numbers about dentists income and that's why every now and then this kind of thread shows up. I do think that dentistry is still a really nice career, but in a way, I can get why some pre dental students could be anxious about this subject. I think one of the best way to have answer is to actually talk with real dentists and new grads and it was really informative to share thought with you guys. 

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I am a dentist, who graduated from Schulich in 2014. This thread has gotten out of control. There are a handful of posters who are knowledgeable (either dentists or dental students) and then those looking from the ther side of the pond (predentists) that are worried and perhaps misinformed in parts.

 

Predentists: I understand the worry. I heard it when I was in dental school too. But this thread has been blown way, way out of proportion. A few painters seem upset about things, and the comments and their facts are spiralling down.

 

I work in Oakville and Woodbridge ON, both close to Toronto. One practice was a new practice four years ago, one is with a long established single dentist practice.

 

I am a competent dentist, I'm cautiously quick at restorative, always felt comfortable with endo (root canal therapy) and enjoy prosthodontics (dentures). I would put myself in the top 1/3 of my class clinically, but I am not gifted, just a regular recent grad.

 

I produce on any normal day 1000-2000. If I had to pick an average, I'd say $1500. On a slow day it could be 600 (my lowest day in a year) and on a good day with a denture insertion for example it could be $3500 (my highest day this year was around $4200). I get paid 40% of collections and don't know a single friend working for less then 40%, although I'm sure someone is.

 

My first year of private practice I made $170,000. With tuition tax credits, I barely paid income tax. This helped wipe out a huge Amin t of student debt for me (I paid for dental school myself with summer work and loans).

 

My second year I'm on track to make slightly more.

 

I keep in touch with all my dental school friends, and my best friends and I talk production numbers honestly, it's not a taboo subject for us. The lowest I know is a friend working full time at a dental practice on Liberty village in Toronto, and he's making around $110,000.

 

With incorporating your dental practice, income taxes on your corporation are 10-15.5%, then you take a $65,000 salary and save for retirement within your dental Corp.

 

It really doesn't take much to produce $1000 per day. I'm not just saying that. It's nothing. Even slow practices in downtown Toronto.

 

There is crazy gloom and doom in this thread. I won't call anyone out, but some commenters are simply not accurate here.

 

Dentistry is a ton of fun too. I can't imagine sitting at a desk. When I have breaks in between patients, even long ones, I'm either working up a case, writing notes, or watching Netflix, snapchat, Facebook on my phone etc. I plan to work 4 days per week soon. Even looking forward, as bad as they make it out to be, you'll always make a pretty good salary in a great job. Even if you saw 3 patients per day you could make a great salary. You can afford a mortgage, you can marry, have kids (future dentists), it's a great life.

 

I'll stop by tomorrow to answer questions for a new grad if anyone has them, though they probably won't be as long as this post was.

 

Cheer up friends, it's gonna be good.

 

Thank you for this post. Do you mind explaining what's in bold a little more? I didn't really understand. 

 

I'm glad to know I didn't waste 500$ on taking the DAT this november  :)

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