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The Future Of Dentistry Is Cr*p...

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Besides, the profession is still great and I just realized that there wouldn't be any "associate jobs" available if there wasn't enough patients at the clinic. Think of all the ads online on Toronto and Mcgill's websites, so many clinics offering part time and full time work. This wouldn't be the case if the owner was "just getting by" and barely having enough to pay overhead, etc...there's two sides to this decline thing. Not everything is going downhill and we should consider that as well. 

Just my 2 cents. 

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Lol, don't be. Just do your research and make a plan. As has been stated by a lot of people already, it's still a much better career than most.

 

I work 3 days a week and still make more than my senior civil servant husband and will work 10-15 years less than him to save about the same for retirement. I just started a little older and want to retire younger, so it leaves me very few years to save a large sum, hence why I can't spend much.

 

If I needed more money, I would prioritize a job where I made more money.

 

Because I don't need more money, I *chose* a more mellow job with less hours where I have A LOT of fun, access to every toy in the industry and no pressure to produce.

 

Once my debt is paid off (within 6 years of graduating), that 20-30k/year will be primarily our travel budget.

I am definitely not struggling despite a huge pay cut, which will be offset by my ability to work a few extra years because I'm not burnt out.

 

Just don't go into it blind.

Talk to working dentists, find out what their advice is. Get to know the industry and then make the right choices for yourself from there.

 

If you take anything from this thread, take away that there are many many different ways to move forward depending on your priorities and that's actually a good thing. There is no cookie cutter typical job.

 

Amen,

 

Anyways, unless you are not planning to have kids, your projection based on your previous post will be correct, however, that changes very quickly with little one(s).

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Lol. So so true.

 

No kids is a huge part of my financial freedom. Hence why I emphasize that people need to really know their own priorities and goals and make appropriate decisions from there.

 

What works for me professionally and financially wouldn't work for others. There are a lot of trade offs along the way.

 

Are you considering kids? Silly of me to ask but is financial freedom your main reason not to have them? 

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Oh good grief is right! 

 

I completely agree, be as pragmatic about finances as possible, especially about the career you're choosing for the rest of your life or I hope so. It is good to know what to expect. I was in a position where I was offered a seat in the US with the costs being 400,000 USD for all 4 years. Turned it down without another offer elsewhere. Anyone borrowing more than 250,000$ CAD for dental school should stop and think about it. 

 

Yeah the realities are that the profession is on a decline and it is getting tough out there but when I see Dental students and Dentist lamenting on this forum about not having a 6 figure salary or the prospect of such, it angers me. Get real with your comparisons. Instead of looking up to professions all the time: medicine...etc. Take a look down (financially). Yeah we may have to go through 4 more years of school and take on more liability but that doesn't seem like much with what you're getting in return (low unemployment, work availability until your 60, and financially rewarding-anything over 75K doesn't increase happiness apparently). That to me is greedy.

 

I appreciate posts like Cleanup with all the billing costs and intangibles because that's what people should know going in. 

 

I had to make an account to post on here, the tone is wayyyyyy too negative here. Anyone who turns down a dental school spot because of 250k tuition is a financial idiot. Period. I guarantee, if money is your motivation and you are willing to work away from the big cities, 200k first year is not an unrealistic figure. There are many areas in canada where you can make 300k as an associate working 40 hrs/wk, even 400k if you are working in Alberta. That's just as an associate. If you are a practice owner the sky's the limit. 

 

If you decide to work rural for a couple years you can easily pay off that 250k debt in two years. Sure, if you are dead set on living in Vancouver or Toronto then the first couple years you won't make that much, but even a couple hours drive away from major cities you should be able to find jobs where you can make ~150k.

 

What do you guys think of the first posting here: 

https://www.mcgill.ca/dentistry/alumni/classifieds

 

He says: Must have at least one year experience and must be a graduate of a North American dental school.

 

I'm starting to see some different opinions on international students....

 

Depends on what country they were trained in. Australia and the US, I would say are equivalent or slightly below NA. I definitely would not hire an international dentist who graduated from India. Just based on what I've heard and from the work of my international classmates in dental school, their standards are definitely not up to par.

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This post +1. 

 

I won't call anyone out, but there are some predents in this thread with a weaker filter, belaboring a specific point that they're worried. To all reading this thread, this entire thread is far more predent heavy in terms of comments, compared to actual dentists.

 

Predents, go back and read the comments by the actual dentists. 

 

Malkyn works 3 days per week by choice, and loves it

 

Ostracized from what I gather works right in Toronto, and although has seen income decline, has no regrets and would do it again

 

Mightymolar who owns multipe practices, and is setting themselves up for a great retirement

 

troothfairy, who knows those working in Alberta making 300-400k

 

I work 5 days per week in the GTA and will likely earn 185k in my second year of practice working right in the GTA, close to Toronto

 

There is tons of great content in this thread - both positive and negative in terms of dentistry. But if you read through the thread and try to identify and focus on the posts by the actual dentists, not the less informed predents, you'll see we're all pretty positive. OK, enough defending dentistry - if you're not convinced after reading this thread, try talking to actual dental students / dentists in person. Who knows, maybe after discussion you'll determine dentistry isn't for you

 

I had to make an account to post on here, the tone is wayyyyyy too negative here. Anyone who turns down a dental school spot because of 250k tuition is a financial idiot. Period. I guarantee, if money is your motivation and you are willing to work away from the big cities, 200k first year is not an unrealistic figure. There are many areas in canada where you can make 300k as an associate working 40 hrs/wk, even 400k if you are working in Alberta. That's just as an associate. If you are a practice owner the sky's the limit. 

 

If you decide to work rural for a couple years you can easily pay off that 250k debt in two years. Sure, if you are dead set on living in Vancouver or Toronto then the first couple years you won't make that much, but even a couple hours drive away from major cities you should be able to find jobs where you can make ~150k.

 

 

Depends on what country they were trained in. Australia and the US, I would say are equivalent or slightly below NA. I definitely would not hire an international dentist who graduated from India. Just based on what I've heard and from the work of my international classmates in dental school, their standards are definitely not up to par.

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I had to make an account to post on here, the tone is wayyyyyy too negative here. Anyone who turns down a dental school spot because of 250k tuition is a financial idiot. Period. I guarantee, if money is your motivation and you are willing to work away from the big cities, 200k first year is not an unrealistic figure. There are many areas in canada where you can make 300k as an associate working 40 hrs/wk, even 400k if you are working in Alberta. That's just as an associate. If you are a practice owner the sky's the limit. 

 

If you decide to work rural for a couple years you can easily pay off that 250k debt in two years. Sure, if you are dead set on living in Vancouver or Toronto then the first couple years you won't make that much, but even a couple hours drive away from major cities you should be able to find jobs where you can make ~150k.

 

 

Depends on what country they were trained in. Australia and the US, I would say are equivalent or slightly below NA. I definitely would not hire an international dentist who graduated from India. Just based on what I've heard and from the work of my international classmates in dental school, their standards are definitely not up to par.

 

I thought so, but I was also thinking that if they're qualified to practise in Canada (either through the equivalency process or studying in an accredited school), it means they got the necessary training and there should be no judgement?

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I thought so, but I was also thinking that if they're qualified to practise in Canada (either through the equivalency process or studying in an accredited school), it means they got the necessary training and there should be no judgement?

 

*Should*

 

Owners can hire whoever the hell they want haha. It's like law firms only hiring from specific law schools, right?

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Australia, New Zeland, Ireland, US graduates can practice in Canada....some employers (minority) try to be OVER-THE-TOP selective in the recruting department. from personal experience, Irish and Australia dental students have been more exposed to clinical dentistry than SOME canadian students. In fact, it is standard policy for Canadian students to try to sneak into the labs on the weekends (or after classes) to expose themselves to certain procedures and build up speed because, they don't get enough practice during school hours. Note this behavior is mostly pronounced in year 3 and year 4 when we actually have patient feedback about our speed and posture. bottom line, you WILL find many jobs and YOU have to turn some down, not the other way around (as long as you have earned your accredited degree from one of the countries mentioned above).

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Australia, New Zeland, Ireland, US graduates can practice in Canada....some employers (minority) try to be OVER-THE-TOP selective in the recruting department. from personal experience, Irish and Australia dental students have been more exposed to clinical dentistry than SOME canadian students. In fact, it is standard policy for Canadian students to try to sneak into the labs on the weekends (or after classes) to expose themselves to certain procedures and build up speed because, they don't get enough practice during school hours. Note this behavior is mostly pronounced in year 3 and year 4 when we actually have patient feedback about our speed and posture. bottom line, you WILL find many jobs and YOU have to turn some down, not the other way around (as long as you have earned your accredited degree from one of the countries mentioned above).

 

That's great to hear. Thanks for your input!

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Yeah, that's not really how the world works, but even then I wouldn't take the jobs listings as representative of the job market.

 

None of the jobs I recently considered were listed anywhere. It doesn't matter where you graduated from, an excellent reputation in the industry will matter more than anything else.

 

There might be some bias finding a first job for some international grads, but first jobs are easy to come by if you're flexible about hours and just use it as time to learn and establish yourself.

 

The new grad job market and the experienced dentist job market are very different. I doubt I would even look at jobs listings if I were to move to another city, I would just network because it's a VERY connected industry.

 

Work hard to build a respected brand and opportunities will make themselves available. Your labs, sales reps, and specialists all know who's hiring and who to avoid, so if they like and respect you, they will hook you up.

 

You could work barely 6 months at a crappy job in a city where you know no one and manage to be networked enough to find much better work.

 

Yea it's good to know these things from practising dentists...the one I shadowed only talked to me about the procedures he does lol

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Yeah, that's not really how the world works, but even then I wouldn't take the jobs listings as representative of the job market.

 

None of the jobs I recently considered were listed anywhere. It doesn't matter where you graduated from, an excellent reputation in the industry will matter more than anything else.

 

There might be some bias finding a first job for some international grads, but first jobs are easy to come by if you're flexible about hours and just use it as time to learn and establish yourself.

 

The new grad job market and the experienced dentist job market are very different. I doubt I would even look at jobs listings if I were to move to another city, I would just network because it's a VERY connected industry.

 

Work hard to build a respected brand and opportunities will make themselves available. Your labs, sales reps, and specialists all know who's hiring and who to avoid, so if they like and respect you, they will hook you up.

 

You could work barely 6 months at a crappy job in a city where you know no one and manage to be networked enough to find much better work.

 

Keep that wisdom flowing! Your posts are just great. Whether you're being brutally honest or offering hope... its always appreciated. Please never leave this forum hahaha

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Lol, you should hear what I say to my patients.

Brutally honest is my brand.

 

Haha, I would like to hear what you actually say>?

 

Dentistry is not for everyone.  You can make it as great as you want.  It is financially rewarding, however, it depends on how you view it as rewarding..  If you try to keep up with the jones, you may be miserable.  Plan ahead, and live within your means.

 

Work, life balance is the key, you will burn out pretty quickly,

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What do you guys think of the first posting here: 

https://www.mcgill.ca/dentistry/alumni/classifieds

 

He says: Must have at least one year experience and must be a graduate of a North American dental school.

 

I'm starting to see some different opinions on international students....

Yea I saw that but I cant comment.

 

I honestly dont mind competition from International Grads it will just push us to inovate which dentistry needs badly

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