Urgent Warning: Do Not Go To Australia For Medical Education

[emmaff]

The days of going to Australia for a medical degree are over. Do NOT to go Australia for medical training for any reason. I have posted a warning previously (a year ago), but is appears my posting has been taken down for unknown reasons. Going to Australia for medical training has previously been an attractive option, but things have drastically changed. Australia, particularly Queensland, has significantly increased the number of medical school seats for nationals (they have every right to do so), and this is having serious implications on international students who have spent incredible amounts of money on their degree, graduating with overwhelming debt and having no job. In no way am I trying to dissuade you to become a doctor, but graduating from a program with massive debt and no job is not a wise decision. The government has implemented the CMI program for a number of years, but now that there is a surplus of Australians graduating from medicine (and again, I am not suggesting this is wrong), there is a serious problem finding a job and the CMI program is largely inadequate. If you are Canadian, you may think there is a good chance you will secure a position in Canada, but your odds are 1/10 for international positions and you are competing with an incredibly competitive market.

 

If you look at the data, UQ charged $50,000/year tuition not long ago and had a large international cohort. Now they have a small cohort and charge $70,000/year to make up their losses. There is a good reason for the large drop in international students. Of course UQ is not an isolated example. There are an excess of medical students in NSW and Victoria that have come to QLD for jobs in the past, but now that QLD have increased their numbers, people are getting stuck with a medical degree and no job.

 

At $70,000/year for tuition, you will most certainly spend $100,000/year all up (tuition, housing, expenses, etc) and you are looking at a minimum of $400,000 for a degree in which case some people have no job. Despite the fact of whether your parents have the money to pay for your tuition or not, I can tell you it is not worth it.

 

I would also like to add that the Australian Federal government is planning (technically only in discussion, but likely proceeding) to restrict permanent residency for medical trainees which would remove the possibility of specializing in Australia.... so unless you are one of the few that secure a job in the country in which you are coming from, you would be stuck working as a resident for a very long time with low wages.... your $400,000 debt would take you about 40 years to pay off at best.

 

Please take this information and think before making any impulse decisions.

[juniorsenior]

very informative post, thank you for all the information. International education may have been a viable option , but the gates are closing on both ends and people are unfortunately being trapped in the middle of it all.

 

golden rule : Study where you plan on practicing. 

[Edict]

The days of going to Australia for a medical degree are over. Do NOT to go Australia for medical training for any reason. I have posted a warning previously (a year ago), but is appears my posting has been taken down for unknown reasons. Going to Australia for medical training has previously been an attractive option, but things have drastically changed. Australia, particularly Queensland, has significantly increased the number of medical school seats for nationals (they have every right to do so), and this is having serious implications on international students who have spent incredible amounts of money on their degree, graduating with overwhelming debt and having no job. In no way am I trying to dissuade you to become a doctor, but graduating from a program with massive debt and no job is not a wise decision. The government has implemented the CMI program for a number of years, but now that there is a surplus of Australians graduating from medicine (and again, I am not suggesting this is wrong), there is a serious problem finding a job and the CMI program is largely inadequate. If you are Canadian, you may think there is a good chance you will secure a position in Canada, but your odds are 1/10 for international positions and you are competing with an incredibly competitive market.

 

If you look at the data, UQ charged $50,000/year tuition not long ago and had a large international cohort. Now they have a small cohort and charge $70,000/year to make up their losses. There is a good reason for the large drop in international students. Of course UQ is not an isolated example. There are an excess of medical students in NSW and Victoria that have come to QLD for jobs in the past, but now that QLD have increased their numbers, people are getting stuck with a medical degree and no job.

 

At $70,000/year for tuition, you will most certainly spend $100,000/year all up (tuition, housing, expenses, etc) and you are looking at a minimum of $400,000 for a degree in which case some people have no job. Despite the fact of whether your parents have the money to pay for your tuition or not, I can tell you it is not worth it.

 

I would also like to add that the Australian Federal government is planning (technically only in discussion, but likely proceeding) to restrict permanent residency for medical trainees which would remove the possibility of specializing in Australia.... so unless you are one of the few that secure a job in the country in which you are coming from, you would be stuck working as a resident for a very long time with low wages.... your $400,000 debt would take you about 40 years to pay off at best.

 

Please take this information and think before making any impulse decisions.

 

Your odds are not 1/10 as a Canadian who studied in Australia. It is closer to 5 or 6/10. 

 

All in all, Australia still remains a viable option, between those who stay in Australia and those who come back to Canada or go to the states I believe the majority of students do end up becoming doctors somewhere in the world.

 

The non-debatables are the upfront cost of the education, the amount of hard work you will need to put in, often in excess of what a Canadian medical student would have to put in, and the lack of choice you have in where you will live and work for the next 10 years of your life or so and technically for the rest of your life if you end up in a country you don't like. 

[Locke]

Your odds are not 1/10 as a Canadian who studied in Australia. It is closer to 5 or 6/10. 

 

All in all, Australia still remains a viable option, between those who stay in Australia and those who come back to Canada or go to the states I believe the majority of students do end up becoming doctors somewhere in the world.

 

The non-debatables are the upfront cost of the education, the amount of hard work you will need to put in, often in excess of what a Canadian medical student would have to put in, and the lack of choice you have in where you will live and work for the next 10 years of your life or so and technically for the rest of your life if you end up in a country you don't like. 

Wait, aren't Australian grads still considered as IMGs in the match in Canada?

 

Also, getting internship after medical school is my main issue, otherwise I would go. Do you know if it is as difficult to get as people say?

[Edict]

Wait, aren't Australian grads still considered as IMGs in the match in Canada?

 

Also, getting internship after medical school is my main issue, otherwise I would go. Do you know if it is as difficult to get as people say?

 

I think there is a lot of fear mongering because there was some crisis in internship spots. The reason it became so public was because the politicians became involved. All in all though, I believe it will be managed, i don't think it sounds politically good if a lot of Australian trained international citizen doctors can't find jobs in Australia especially when they want to become doctors in Australia. 

 

Overall, its doable, i won't say its easy to come back to Canada. You will work your butt off to match and you don't really get a pick of where you match and sometimes even what specialty you want. So its not something I would ever do lightly, but at the end of the day if you really want it and you can't possibly get into medical school in Canada or the US, I would consider it. 

[Locke]

I think there is a lot of fear mongering because there was some crisis in internship spots. The reason it became so public was because the politicians became involved. All in all though, I believe it will be managed, i don't think it sounds politically good if a lot of Australian trained international citizen doctors can't find jobs in Australia especially when they want to become doctors in Australia. 

 

Overall, its doable, i won't say its easy to come back to Canada. You will work your butt off to match and you don't really get a pick of where you match and sometimes even what specialty you want. So its not something I would ever do lightly, but at the end of the day if you really want it and you can't possibly get into medical school in Canada or the US, I would consider it. 

Ah. I see. Thanks. But at this point, Australia does not seem to be a viable option yes?

 

I am looking to apply as broadly as possible (finishing up my second undergrad so need to maximize my chances).

[rmorelan]

The days of going to Australia for a medical degree are over. Do NOT to go Australia for medical training for any reason. I have posted a warning previously (a year ago), but is appears my posting has been taken down for unknown reasons. Going to Australia for medical training has previously been an attractive option, but things have drastically changed. Australia, particularly Queensland, has significantly increased the number of medical school seats for nationals (they have every right to do so), and this is having serious implications on international students who have spent incredible amounts of money on their degree, graduating with overwhelming debt and having no job. In no way am I trying to dissuade you to become a doctor, but graduating from a program with massive debt and no job is not a wise decision. The government has implemented the CMI program for a number of years, but now that there is a surplus of Australians graduating from medicine (and again, I am not suggesting this is wrong), there is a serious problem finding a job and the CMI program is largely inadequate. If you are Canadian, you may think there is a good chance you will secure a position in Canada, but your odds are 1/10 for international positions and you are competing with an incredibly competitive market.

 

If you look at the data, UQ charged $50,000/year tuition not long ago and had a large international cohort. Now they have a small cohort and charge $70,000/year to make up their losses. There is a good reason for the large drop in international students. Of course UQ is not an isolated example. There are an excess of medical students in NSW and Victoria that have come to QLD for jobs in the past, but now that QLD have increased their numbers, people are getting stuck with a medical degree and no job.

 

At $70,000/year for tuition, you will most certainly spend $100,000/year all up (tuition, housing, expenses, etc) and you are looking at a minimum of $400,000 for a degree in which case some people have no job. Despite the fact of whether your parents have the money to pay for your tuition or not, I can tell you it is not worth it.

 

I would also like to add that the Australian Federal government is planning (technically only in discussion, but likely proceeding) to restrict permanent residency for medical trainees which would remove the possibility of specializing in Australia.... so unless you are one of the few that secure a job in the country in which you are coming from, you would be stuck working as a resident for a very long time with low wages.... your $400,000 debt would take you about 40 years to pay off at best.

 

Please take this information and think before making any impulse decisions.

 

side note: I have no idea why your post on this would have been removed, other than the possibility of accidental deletion. If we deleted it for some reason (ie it violated the forum policies somehow) we would inform you - sooooo it is confusing! Anyway sorry for the inconvenience.

[RadCdn]

If you go abroad, always always always write your USMLE's. Not only does it open the door to an enormous number of residency spots, it also opens doors for future fellowship spots as well. I can say from personal experience, the opportunities in the US are vast. I'm incredibly happy that I did my residency training in the US and completed my USMLE's. It opens so many doors for me. 

[JohnGrisham]

25 minutes ago, RadCdn said:

If you go abroad, always always always write your USMLE's. Not only does it open the door to an enormous number of residency spots, it also opens doors for future fellowship spots as well. I can say from personal experience, the opportunities in the US are vast. I'm incredibly happy that I did my residency training in the US and completed my USMLE's. It opens so many doors for me. 

Very true, majority of IMGs who match will be doing residency in the USA, not Canada.

[Mahin]

@RadCdn Where did you go to med school? And can you please go into detail on how you did everything to get into residency in US?