Having A Family Member In The Department - Conflict Of Interest

[FilippoInzaghi]

Hey folks, 

was thinking about what would happen if an applicant to a very competitive surgical specialty (which only takes 2-3 residents/year) has a very close family member who is a staff in the SAME department (eg. Father/mother)? 

 

I have received contradictory info, some saying that the applicant cannot apply to that specific university regardless of whether that family member is part of the ADCOM or not, some say cannot apply to that specific university only if the family member is part of the ADCOM, some say it doesnt change anything, and some say it actually increases the chances of the applicant.

 

Can you guys shed some light on this please? 

Tnx!

[Fresh fry]

I think I know the program and school you are talking about (not the one below, but you gave it away with 2-3 residents per year)

 

This is an old problem and has come up every year with some interesting match results coming out because of it.

 

I'm not sure if you are asking out of curiosity or what but from what I have seen there have not been very many effective courses of redress in past instances. This just happens, and it will probably keep on happening. I'm sorry if I sound defeated but in a sense I am.

 

I can speak from experience as we just did our programs CaRMs ranking and it was conflicted by some family ties. medicine is such a small world it is kind of hard not have this come up. In my program there are also a lot of family "dynasties" with jokes that you can get in with your last name alone. In our situation the family member removed themselves from the process but it is kind of hard not to take it into consideration that the candidate you are ranking is related to your friend/colleague/boss and the consequences that would come if they weren't ranked because of you.

 

 

https://thetyee.ca/News/2015/02/06/Former-Cabinet-Minister-Wins-UBC-Residency/

 

http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/85299-nepotism-and-corruption-img-and-son-of-program-director-and-cabinet-minister-gets-a-cardiac-surgery-residency-carms-irregularity/

[LittleDaisy]

Usually, the family members remove themselves from the selection committee.

Yes, if your family member is a well-know staff or a senior staff, you are certainly helped by the connection.

It does not only happen in UBC, it happens everywhere.

LIfe is not fair...it is hard to SAY NO  to your colleague's daughter or son, unless this candidate has red flags or clearly subpar than the other candidates...I have seen it happen in every competitive speciality, you are certainly favoured if your father happens to be the head of the department...

The people I know who have family connections, USUALLY make it VERY CLEAR in their application, that my father& mother is a well-respected staff in the department.  During your elective, the other staff usually know that you are the child of so and so...

CaRMS is like a stressful job-hunting process, like in every other profession, having familial ties or connections always HELP.

 

I think I know the program and school you are talking about (not the one below, but you gave it away with 2-3 residents per year)

 

This is an old problem and has come up every year with some interesting match results coming out because of it.

 

I'm not sure if you are asking out of curiosity or what but from what I have seen there have not been very many effective courses of redress in past instances. This just happens, and it will probably keep on happening. I'm sorry if I sound defeated but in a sense I am.

 

I can speak from experience as we just did our programs CaRMs ranking and it was conflicted by some family ties. medicine is such a small world it is kind of hard not have this come up. In my program there are also a lot of family "dynasties" with jokes that you can get in with your last name alone. In our situation the family member removed themselves from the process but it is kind of hard not to take it into consideration that the candidate you are ranking is related to your friend/colleague/boss and the consequences that would come if they weren't ranked because of you.

 

 

https://thetyee.ca/News/2015/02/06/Former-Cabinet-Minister-Wins-UBC-Residency/

 

http://forums.premed101.com/index.php?/topic/85299-nepotism-and-corruption-img-and-son-of-program-director-and-cabinet-minister-gets-a-cardiac-surgery-residency-carms-irregularity/

[Bambi]

To my knowledge, the interviewers out of an abundance of caution will no longer seriously entertain the candidate for serious consideration once they realize the applicant is a family member of a colleague. It was not always like this, but the appearance of nepotism is frowned upon today.

[CampusUdeM1]

You mean to say that the candidate would be excluded from the program?

[Lactic Folly]

I do not think either extreme is desirable - ideally candidates should be judged on their merit as much as possible.

[Bambi]

You mean to say that the candidate would be excluded from the program?

 

A close friend of mine was a CaRMS applicant for a competitive field in Quebec. He got the interview, one of 40 interviewees for 3 residency spots. He was an excellent candidate in every respect. Once the interviewers realized he was very close to an esteemed colleague at the same school, his chances for acceptance were effectively over. He was no longer considered on his own merit, rather they feared the appearance of nepotism and they had 39 other interviewees to choose from. I would imagine had this been UBC, this would have been helpful. Much will depend upon the culture of the institution.  

 

I know a physician who teaches at one of our medical schools. When his son applied to medical schools, including where he is teaching, he didn't tell a soul and let the process play out - as he absolutely knew that his position would give him zero influence in the selection process. Although this example is unrelated to CaRMS, it is evidence of the existing culture in the selection process today at all levels in medicine.  

[FilippoInzaghi]

guys, a super stupid question (dont jump on me pls); But if you were shadowing the PD, would you by any chance bring this issue up and ask them if this has ever happened before in their department?

Or would you tell the PD that you have an interest in their field, but given the limited spots, and the fact that an applicant whose mother is a staff is applying with you, you are worried that nepotism could affect the carms outcome? 

 

Sorry for the stupid question, im just way too much frustrated...

[Fresh fry]

No stupid questions friendo.

 

Me personally, just my humble opinion, two cents, etc: I wouldn't bring it up. I would just be the best candidate you can be, do the regular elective/shadowing stuff. No matter what you say it won't change how things go down when it comes time to ranking. It is not an ideal situation but as a pragmatist you ave no ability to change it in your current capacity and only the ability to look like someone who will cause trouble.

 

If I am the program director and I have a potential candidate who is dropping hints that they think our hiring process is unfair i am not going to rush to bring them in deeper where it will be harder to justify it when they don't get picked. If I see a fight coming I would act early to avoid it.

 

Sorry man, dem's da breaks. It happens all the time, just most people aren't aware of it. I was reading an article last night that said up to 13% of millenials hired in last 5 years believe that a family member had a direct influence in their getting hired. That's not medicine but even in our North American culture it is widely pervasive.  

[rmorelan]

I do not think either extreme is desirable - ideally candidates should be judged on their merit as much as possible.

 

I would agree - it is truly hard for the department to manage this. They can over react either way. 

 

I know a student who had one of their parents as the head of a well known surgery program. The student was applying to surgery at the same centre (I am trying to make this vague here for obvious reasons). That student did match at that centre. Political fallout - I am sure there was. Yet to a big degree programs are very much about protecting what they already have (do NOT kill the golden goose). 

 

I will agree as well with  Fresh Fry - you imply you deserve a spot by some connection and you would be out of consideration very often and very quickly. That last thing we need in an entitled person floating around as that is the gift that just keeps on giving for 2-6 long years.