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2017 Carms Match Results!


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CaRMS has actually published some data on what ends up happening to those who go unmatched in the first round (at least, as of 2012). The majority matched in the second round, but a significant minority chose to re-apply in next year's match. It looks like there were two people who kept applying and going unmatched through to 2015.

 

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To all of those unmatched.

I heard that there are people unmatched in peds, who applied this year and got in the first round in Ontario!!!

The story could go on for other specialities, orthopedics, gen surg and even in obs gyn!

The bottom line is if you could not see yourself doing the speciality other than the one you applied to the first round, I still think that it would be wise to give it a shot next year, do a master, or delay graduation and do more electives in other schools.

Your school will always tell you to apply to the 2nd iteration, and grab what you can...and all med schools want their students to be matched, it is their self-interest and they want to look good !!

 

It's true that a lot of people take a year off and then do match, however, it is not always in their originally intended field or first choice discipline in the second time around. Doing more electives seems to only really help if you had weak letters or if the discipline is small enough that you get to know the important CARMS people for each location you're interested in.

 

Bottom line, I think unmatched people need to decide for themselves what risks and hardships they are willing to go through. For some, waiting another year for the opportunity to do ophtho/derm/ortho and likely not being looked down on for being unmatched the previous years is worth it. CARMS is just a black box and it is hard to tell what you can do in that one year which will make a difference especially when there's already the stigma of being unmatched. 

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It's true that a lot of people take a year off and then do match, however, it is not always in their originally intended field or first choice discipline in the second time around. Doing more electives seems to only really help if you had weak letters or if the discipline is small enough that you get to know the important CARMS people for each location you're interested in.

 

Bottom line, I think unmatched people need to decide for themselves what risks and hardships they are willing to go through. For some, waiting another year for the opportunity to do ophtho/derm/ortho and likely not being looked down on for being unmatched the previous years is worth it. CARMS is just a black box and it is hard to tell what you can do in that one year which will make a difference especially when there's already the stigma of being unmatched.

It's so unfair that there's a astigma at all. For some of us it's just luck. Everyone I contacted at programs was stunned that I didn't match. Great evaluations, preceptors reiterated that they wrote me very strong letters, and I had really good vibes from the majority of my interviews. No red flags.

 

It's so unfair that those of us who just got screwed over by the algorithm are assumed to be bad apples in some way.

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It's so unfair that there's a astigma at all. For some of us it's just luck. Everyone I contacted at programs was stunned that I didn't match. Great evaluations, preceptors reiterated that they wrote me very strong letters, and I had really good vibes from the majority of my interviews. No red flags.

 

It's so unfair that those of us who just got screwed over by the algorithm are assumed to be bad apples in some way.

 

yes. There is not question in my mind about that - we are playing a game of musical chairs and to assume there is a flaw in an applicant because they didn't match is very unfair. Unfortunately I think it is used as a simple (incorrect but simple) way of reducing the number of applications to process. 

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Some things from the last couple pages: 

 

1. Rad onc is super competitive in the US and people in Canada may want to consider that in the application process. There is a huge opportunity for us to go to the states after residency if there are no jobs up here. The QOL and remuneration are much better in the states as well. 

 

 

Rad onc has one of the worst job markets of any medical specialty in the US, due to excess of residents (many from new training programs) relative to job openings there.  Even rural jobs can be hard to get.

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18 at McGill unranked this year after first round apparently, many of which didn't back up, or didn't apply to enough programs/didn't rank enough programs / didn't get enough interviews/ applied only to very competitive programs.

 

However, 15 in the graduating year got gen surg o.O. like 15 out of 180 or so.

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18 at McGill unranked this year after first round apparently, many of which didn't back up, or didn't apply to enough programs/didn't rank enough programs / didn't get enough interviews/ applied only to very competitive programs.

 

However, 15 in the graduating year got gen surg o.O. like 15 out of 180 or so.

 

Why does it seem like so many schools did poorly this year? 

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18 at McGill unranked this year after first round apparently, many of which didn't back up, or didn't apply to enough programs/didn't rank enough programs / didn't get enough interviews/ applied only to very competitive programs.

 

However, 15 in the graduating year got gen surg o.O. like 15 out of 180 or so.

likewise at UofT...for similar reasons. I wonder if it's a result of those 50 spots that were cut

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How likely would it be that a Canadian english speaking IMG from a commonwealth country med school NEVER matches into family or internal medicine? Say hypothetically if there are no major red flags and the applicant is average to strong. If one perseveres/networks/continues internship in the country of training then re-applies, does history generally favour finding a residency somewhere (anywhere) in Canada?

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Why does it seem like so many schools did poorly this year? 

 

There's always a bit of a balancing out. Queen's and NOSM had a great match rate from what I hear, as they typically do. Western also did pretty well this match, much better than last year.

 

likewise at UofT...for similar reasons. I wonder if it's a result of those 50 spots that were cut

 

Only 25 spots have been cut so far. The remaining 25, which were intended to be for IMG spots anyway, have been put on hold pending review.

 

How likely would it be that a Canadian english speaking IMG from a commonwealth country med school NEVER matches into family or internal medicine? Say hypothetically if there are no major red flags and the applicant is average to strong. If one perseveres/networks/continues internship in the country of training then re-applies, does history generally favour finding a residency somewhere (anywhere) in Canada?

 

Depends on a number of factors. "Commonwealth medical schools" is a pretty broad category - the UK and Australia have a better success rate than most, and going for FM and IM is highly recommended. Best shot to match is in the first year and goes down quickly from there - once an applicant has been through 2 cycles, I would say their matching chances are very close to zero.

 

With the information we have available, it's hard to put a firm number to an overall success rate. IMGs overall have a match rate just above 20%, though first-time applicants and Canadians studying abroad (as opposed to IMGs with prior training who immigrated to Canada after their training) both do better. Likewise broadly applying to FM/IM increases chances further. Purely guestimating, I'd optimistically put a first year Canadian-raised IMG's chances at around 50%. With multiple cycles, it might rise to 60 or 70% or so, maybe a little higher, but again, that's just a guess and hard to say one way or another. In any case, that still leaves a reasonable percentage for never matching in Canada. Some will end up in residencies in other countries, particularly the US, so the outcomes aren't that bad, but any Canadian going abroad for medical school should be very aware that they could easily not end up back in Canada for residency, even if they're a generally good candidate.

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There's always a bit of a balancing out. Queen's and NOSM had a great match rate from what I hear, as they typically do. Western also did pretty well this match, much better than last year.

 

 

Only 25 spots have been cut so far. The remaining 25, which were intended to be for IMG spots anyway, have been put on hold pending review.

 

 

Depends on a number of factors. "Commonwealth medical schools" is a pretty broad category - the UK and Australia have a better success rate than most, and going for FM and IM is highly recommended. Best shot to match is in the first year and goes down quickly from there - once an applicant has been through 2 cycles, I would say their matching chances are very close to zero.

 

With the information we have available, it's hard to put a firm number to an overall success rate. IMGs overall have a match rate just above 20%, though first-time applicants and Canadians studying abroad (as opposed to IMGs with prior training who immigrated to Canada after their training) both do better. Likewise broadly applying to FM/IM increases chances further. Purely guestimating, I'd optimistically put a first year Canadian-raised IMG's chances at around 50%. With multiple cycles, it might rise to 60 or 70% or so, maybe a little higher, but again, that's just a guess and hard to say one way or another. In any case, that still leaves a reasonable percentage for never matching in Canada. Some will end up in residencies in other countries, particularly the US, so the outcomes aren't that bad, but any Canadian going abroad for medical school should be very aware that they could easily not end up back in Canada for residency, even if they're a generally good candidate.

 

 

 

Thanks for the insight ralk. Yes my school is in one of those two commonwealth countries. I am early in my medical degree and only plan on doing either IM or family, with a very small possibility of liking peds. I have relevant work experience and a graduate degree under my belt as well + publications. I am already down the road, but I am just sort of psyching myself up early because of all this talk of carms cuts. My biggest goal is to get back to Canada -- the US isn't really an option and I don't really want to stay in my current country forever at this point for a number of reasons. I just want to feel optimistic/stay motivated.

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Thanks for the insight ralk. Yes my school is in one of those two commonwealth countries. I am early in my medical degree and only plan on doing either IM or family, with a very small possibility of liking peds. I have relevant work experience and a graduate degree under my belt as well + publications. I am already down the road, but I am just sort of psyching myself up early because of all this talk of carms cuts. My biggest goal is to get back to Canada -- the US isn't really an option and I don't really want to stay in my current country forever at this point for a number of reasons. I just want to feel optimistic/stay motivated.

 

There's a lot of uncertainty, unfortunately. A lot of it is in your hands though, so while the average person is at 50%, you can certainly increase (or decrease) those odds. Just please keep back-up options open. You may not need them, but better to have them available and not need them then need them and not have them.

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How likely would it be that a Canadian english speaking IMG from a commonwealth country med school NEVER matches into family or internal medicine? Say hypothetically if there are no major red flags and the applicant is average to strong. If one perseveres/networks/continues internship in the country of training then re-applies, does history generally favour finding a residency somewhere (anywhere) in Canada?

Problem is there are plenty of people that fit that description and new fresh grads with every passing year. Better to make sure you do US boards and apply NRMP as well.

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Thanks for the insight ralk. Yes my school is in one of those two commonwealth countries. I am early in my medical degree and only plan on doing either IM or family, with a very small possibility of liking peds. I have relevant work experience and a graduate degree under my belt as well + publications. I am already down the road, but I am just sort of psyching myself up early because of all this talk of carms cuts. My biggest goal is to get back to Canada -- the US isn't really an option and I don't really want to stay in my current country forever at this point for a number of reasons. I just want to feel optimistic/stay motivated.

 

Even though optimism is good, you still have to remain realistic. The odds of matching to a moderately or highly competitive specialty are often somewhat low for CMGs and accordingly, even lower for IMGs. When it comes to less competitive residencies like FM or lab specialities, the odds are a bit better but IMGs are still facing a rather steep hill and neglecting that isn't going to help you if it leads to false hopes.

 

For instance, the 2016 stats tell us that the overall match rate of IMGs to their first choice of discipline was 18,6%. In FM, that was 18,5%. For surgery, that's down to 15,5% and for IM, it's up to 23,2%. It's not impossible but not the most likely scenario. In comparison, CMGs are at 83,6% when it comes to matching to their first choice discipline.

 

http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_23_First_Choice_Discipline_Preference_and_Match_Results_of_IMGs_by_Gender_English.pdf

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Even though optimism is good, you still have to remain realistic. The odds of matching to a moderately or highly competitive specialty are often somewhat low for CMGs and accordingly, even lower for IMGs. When it comes to less competitive residencies like FM or lab specialities, the odds are a bit better but IMGs are still facing a rather steep hill and neglecting that isn't going to help you if it leads to false hopes.

 

For instance, the 2016 stats tell us that the overall match rate of IMGs to their first choice of discipline was 18,6%. In FM, that was 18,5%. For surgery, that's down to 15,5% and for IM, it's up to 23,2%. It's not impossible but not the most likely scenario. In comparison, CMGs are at 83,6% when it comes to matching to their first choice discipline.

 

http://www.carms.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Table_23_First_Choice_Discipline_Preference_and_Match_Results_of_IMGs_by_Gender_English.pdf

 

There are contextual differences that ralk alluded to for the overall IMG stats, med school (& country) and Canadian-raised applicant.   These differences can increase the overall match rates to varying degrees.  Similarly, the global CMG match rate may not be a great indicator since it includes disparate matching rate disciplines - e.g. surgery and FM.

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Thanks for the insight ralk. Yes my school is in one of those two commonwealth countries. I am early in my medical degree and only plan on doing either IM or family, with a very small possibility of liking peds. I have relevant work experience and a graduate degree under my belt as well + publications. I am already down the road, but I am just sort of psyching myself up early because of all this talk of carms cuts. My biggest goal is to get back to Canada -- the US isn't really an option and I don't really want to stay in my current country forever at this point for a number of reasons. I just want to feel optimistic/stay motivated.

Why is the US not an option? You should make it an option as matching FM or IM in the states is far more likely than in Canada. And for FM, it is extremely portable back to Canada for work.

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Why is the US not an option? You should make it an option as matching FM or IM in the states is far more likely than in Canada. And for FM, it is extremely portable back to Canada for work.

 

I'd even say Health Canada is almost "encouraging" CSAs for FM - since looks like they're almost doubling the limit on the number of statement of needs for J-1s that can be issued (for US residency).   

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I'd even say Health Canada is almost "encouraging" CSAs for FM - since looks like they're almost doubling the limit on the number of statement of needs for J-1s that can be issued (for US residency).   

More so realizing that they dont want a bunch of subspecialist IMs attempting to return to Canada. Only so much need for cardiologists etc.  FM there is a "need" weather or not the redistribution is done, is another story.  

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