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2017 Carms Match Results!


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moral of the match. spend ur time networking and not in the library studying.

 

I really do think that is one half of it that people miss. I found that working with the people in my area redirected what I was studying to more effectively line up. Networking informed the studying, and the studying allowed me to do better when I was with the staff. It is circular. 

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moral of the match. spend ur time networking and not in the library studying.

 

It's so hard in some specialties though - I've heard of quite a few derm/plastics applicants who did all the right things but just got stuck with a bad numbers game. 2017 seemed to be bad numbers for quite a few specialties - anesthesia and internal appeared particularly brutal this year. 

 

Also, there's only so much networking can do. You can work your magic at your own school - but if you're from NOSM and want to do 5 year emerg then that's gonna be hard considering they don't even have a 5 year program. Or if you're from Queens and want plastics - also hard, considering they don't have a plastics program! Yet - these people still match despite literally being incapable of networking and having no home school advantage.

 

Networking is one small piece - CaRMS is mostly about being the COMPLETE package: good on paper (CV, ref letters, personal letters) and in person (on elective, interviews). You're right - studying in the library all night won't accomplish all of those things. And neither will networking to be honest - you can hustle like a boss at your home school, but if you don't add up in the other categories, it's not going to help you, especially not Canada-wide. 

 

I think the moral of the match in 2017 is two fold:

 

1) CaRMS is a 3-4 year game plan. Prepare from day 1 of med 1: explore what you want, meet mentors, do research/extra-curriculars/SOMETHING outside of the library BUT make sure you spend enough time studying that you are clinically competent. It's really hard in this era to decide you want something competitive mid-year 3 and achieve it. Apply the same hard working approach once in medicine as you had as a premed gunners! 

 

2) Have a solid plan B. This doesn't mean back up competitive specialty #1 with still moderately competitive specialty #2. I met countless applicants this year and last year that said "But I'm applying all over the country so I don't need to back up". The truth is - unless you would actually rather go unmatched (and talk to the people who went unmatched - all of the people that I've met are EXCELLENT applicants who met a bad numbers game and suffered a lot of mental and emotional turmoil in round 2 and further on if they got rejected. It's a VERY hard road to take and a decision that shouldn't be made lightly), you need a plan B that is actually achievable. The number of spots/number of students is narrowing every year.  Look at the numbers of unmatched: 167 in 2016 --> 90 in 2010 --> 77 in 2005 --> 65 in 2000. Take this seriously and really really consider if you want to be fighting for second round spots with fellow CMG's and thousands of IMG's, because the reality is it COULD happen to you - even if you're a great applicant! 

 

At the end of the day - >90% match, ~50% to their first choice program and ~80% to their first choice discipline (these are general numbers from perusing CaRMS stats from the last couple of years). For most it's a good outcome and as long as you focus on being a good applicant and having a good strategy, the rest isn't really in your control!

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Thanks for your detailed posts.

For the second round of CaRMS, I think that the programs still prefer CMGs over IMGs? (that's what I heard)

Some of my friends did not back up in the first round, because they wanted to see what specialties' spots could be available for 2nd round. One did match to radiology without any elective, I guess that my friend got lucky! The emotional turmoil and deadlines are horrible for those unmatched in the first round.

I think that Canadian med schools need to prepare us better for CaRMS, give more talks, presentations or even demoralize us (Do you want to go unmatched or back up?)

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It's so hard in some specialties though - I've heard of quite a few derm/plastics applicants who did all the right things but just got stuck with a bad numbers game. 2017 seemed to be bad numbers for quite a few specialties - anesthesia and internal appeared particularly brutal this year. 

 

Also, there's only so much networking can do. You can work your magic at your own school - but if you're from NOSM and want to do 5 year emerg then that's gonna be hard considering they don't even have a 5 year program. Or if you're from Queens and want plastics - also hard, considering they don't have a plastics program! Yet - these people still match despite literally being incapable of networking and having no home school advantage.

 

Networking is one small piece - CaRMS is mostly about being the COMPLETE package: good on paper (CV, ref letters, personal letters) and in person (on elective, interviews). You're right - studying in the library all night won't accomplish all of those things. And neither will networking to be honest - you can hustle like a boss at your home school, but if you don't add up in the other categories, it's not going to help you, especially not Canada-wide. 

 

I think the moral of the match in 2017 is two fold:

 

1) CaRMS is a 3-4 year game plan. Prepare from day 1 of med 1: explore what you want, meet mentors, do research/extra-curriculars/SOMETHING outside of the library BUT make sure you spend enough time studying that you are clinically competent. It's really hard in this era to decide you want something competitive mid-year 3 and achieve it. Apply the same hard working approach once in medicine as you had as a premed gunners! 

 

2) Have a solid plan [...]

 

Agree.

I would add a number 3 that most people tend to underestimate : don't be an asshole during your electives.

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Thanks for your detailed posts.

For the second round of CaRMS, I think that the programs still prefer CMGs over IMGs? (that's what I heard)

Some of my friends did not back up in the first round, because they wanted to see what specialties' spots could be available for 2nd round. One did match to radiology without any elective, I guess that my friend got lucky! The emotional turmoil and deadlines are horrible for those unmatched in the first round.

I think that Canadian med schools need to prepare us better for CaRMS, give more talks, presentations or even demoralize us (Do you want to go unmatched or back up?)

 

For the second round, it'll depend on the program of course, but yeah, CMGs seem to be preferred. Schools put the pressure onto programs to get their unmatched students into something. Also, since many of those 2nd round spots were IMG positions in the 1st round, presumably any IMGs the programs wanted would have been taken already. That means CMGs often (but not always) grab up those few 2nd round spots.

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For the second round, it'll depend on the program of course, but yeah, CMGs seem to be preferred. Schools put the pressure onto programs to get their unmatched students into something. Also, since many of those 2nd round spots were IMG positions in the 1st round, presumably any IMGs the programs wanted would have been taken already. That means CMGs often (but not always) grab up those few 2nd round spots.

 

Nonetheless - the questions 4th year students need to ask themselves is this: if you don't get your plan A, do you want plan B to be:

 

1) ending up in a back-up specialty of your choosing, in a location of your choosing? or

 

2) scrambling to create an application in 1 week to a multitude of specialties that you've never even considered in an assortment of locations you've never even been to, while watching all your classmates celebrate their match? Then re-doing the personal letter writing, interviewing, waiting process while your classmates prep for LMCC, which you've majorly backburnered to get through round 2? Then if second round doesn't work out (which in the past - the match rate in round 2 is highly variable and sits around ~60%, so its possible), facing the terrifying prospect of "what now?" Yes there are anecdotal unmatched success stories - but I guarantee you many of those unmatched would not wish the process on anyone and would not voluntarily sign up for it.

 

If you think 1 > 2: you need to have a solid back-up and "I'll just grab a spot in round 2" really isn't one. 

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Hum...perhaps I am cynical after 2 years of clerkship. As a medical student, you really feel at the bottom of the chain of commands.

 

Angry staff, lash it out on the med student. Your gen surg resident post-call, scream at the med student. Senior nurses having a bad day, shout at the med student. Angry or frustrated patients, bring it out on the med student. As a medical student, you really feel sometimes you just have to suck it up, looking motivated while putting a smile on your face despite some bumps.

 

I would be surprised if a med student on electives would be an ''asshole'' to anyone in the health care team. If a med student is slightly mean to anyone, it would be brought up and being remarked upon. While the contrary is not true, if your staff treats you as her personal secretary and asks you to photocopy all her notes for her private patients, prepare her NaCL syringes for temporary breast augmentations; while scolding you to be slow and clumsy with your hands, there is nothing you could do about it (hello plastic surgeons ahah) :P

 

For CaRMS, I guess that sometimes your personalities don't click with your electives preceptor, sometimes, it is a matter of luck. As medical students, most of my colleagues are hard-working, nice to the entire team, and are great candidates. But CaRMS is another game, sometimes, it takes more than a great application, it depends on so many things :P

 

 

Agree.

I would add a number 3 that most people tend to underestimate : don't be an asshole during your electives.

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I'd object to the assertion being made in a few of these posts that unmatched people are only good on paper.

 

Some of us (well I guess I'm not unmatched anymore but it feels like a lifetime brand at this point) are good on and off paper but are just causualties of the algorithm.

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I'd object to the assertion being made in a few of these posts that unmatched people are only good on paper.

 

Some of us (well I guess I'm not unmatched anymore but it feels like a lifetime brand at this point) are good on and off paper but are just causualties of the algorithm.

Really glad to hear you matched in the second round - I hope it was to something you can see yourself being happy in.

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I'd object to the assertion being made in a few of these posts that unmatched people are only good on paper.

 

Some of us (well I guess I'm not unmatched anymore but it feels like a lifetime brand at this point) are good on and off paper but are just causualties of the algorithm.

 

first congrats - and in my experience shortly the fact you didn't match in round one will lost in the wind.

 

You are right - people ARE often just casualties of the game ("it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose"). You can simply have more outstanding people apply to a a field than spots in that field. Just like med school applications there is luck involved in CARMS too. You cannot predict years in advance what your competition will be in a particular field to start with. 

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Hum...perhaps I am cynical after 2 years of clerkship. As a medical student, you really feel at the bottom of the chain of commands.

 

Angry staff, lash it out on the med student. Your gen surg resident post-call, scream at the med student. Senior nurses having a bad day, shout at the med student. Angry or frustrated patients, bring it out on the med student. As a medical student, you really feel sometimes you just have to suck it up, looking motivated while putting a smile on your face despite some bumps.

 

I would be surprised if a med student on electives would be an ''asshole'' to anyone in the health care team. If a med student is slightly mean to anyone, it would be brought up and being remarked upon. While the contrary is not true, if your staff treats you as her personal secretary and asks you to photocopy all her notes for her private patients, prepare her NaCL syringes for temporary breast augmentations; while scolding you to be slow and clumsy with your hands, there is nothing you could do about it (hello plastic surgeons ahah) :P

 

For CaRMS, I guess that sometimes your personalities don't click with your electives preceptor, sometimes, it is a matter of luck. As medical students, most of my colleagues are hard-working, nice to the entire team, and are great candidates. But CaRMS is another game, sometimes, it takes more than a just good paper application, it depends on so many things :P

 

you would think it wouldn't happy - but it DOES. 

 

First off as you know at this point med students are run down, tired, under constant stress, and basically sick of being yelled at. Probably there is some learned behaviour with some as well as often everyone around them can be doing it as well. Plus you are trying to impress so that can easily flip to showing off at times for many, and ignoring people that you think aren't important to save energy to look good to those that do. Some gets in your way letting you shine on your elective and some people kind of snap. 

 

People aren't really themselves often during this process (after a year plus of sleep deprivation) and can do things they wouldn't do at any other point. 

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Hey Amichel, sorry that I typed too fast. I meant good on and off paper! Great candidates that we don't understand they do not match in the first roundl!

I re-edited my post. 

Best of luck to you in your future endeavour  :)

I'd object to the assertion being made in a few of these posts that unmatched people are only good on paper.

Some of us (well I guess I'm not unmatched anymore but it feels like a lifetime brand at this point) are good on and off paper but are just causualties of the algorithm.

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Really glad to hear you matched in the second round - I hope it was to something you can see yourself being happy in.

 

 

Thanks! Matched to family. I think I can find a niche to be happy in. I'm hopeful.

 

 

first congrats - and in my experience shortly the fact you didn't gmatch in round one will lost in the wind.

 

You are right - people ARE often just casualties of the game ("it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose"). You can simply have more outstanding people apply to a a field than spots in that field. Just like med school applications there is luck involved in CARMS too. You cannot predict years in advance what your competition will be in a particular field to start with.

 

  

 

Thanks! I'm sure the feeling will go away eventually, it hasn't yet though.

 

Hey Amichel, sorry that I typed too fast. I meant good on and off paper! Great candidates that we don't understand they do not match in the first roundl!

I re-edited my post. 

Best of luck to you in your future endeavour  :)

Oh I didn't mean you specifically! I've just heard it from a lot of people lately.

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Hum...perhaps I am cynical after 2 years of clerkship. As a medical student, you really feel at the bottom of the chain of commands.

 

Angry staff, lash it out on the med student. Your gen surg resident post-call, scream at the med student. Senior nurses having a bad day, shout at the med student. Angry or frustrated patients, bring it out on the med student. As a medical student, you really feel sometimes you just have to suck it up, looking motivated while putting a smile on your face despite some bumps.

 

I would be surprised if a med student on electives would be an ''asshole'' to anyone in the health care team. If a med student is slightly mean to anyone, it would be brought up and being remarked upon. While the contrary is not true, if your staff treats you as her personal secretary and asks you to photocopy all her notes for her private patients, prepare her NaCL syringes for temporary breast augmentations; while scolding you to be slow and clumsy with your hands, there is nothing you could do about it (hello plastic surgeons ahah) :P

 

For CaRMS, I guess that sometimes your personalities don't click with your electives preceptor, sometimes, it is a matter of luck. As medical students, most of my colleagues are hard-working, nice to the entire team, and are great candidates. But CaRMS is another game, sometimes, it takes more than a just good paper application, it depends on so many things :P

I'm just going to take some time off the LMCC prep to applaud this response. 

 

How many times have I heard "don't be an asshole" as advice for electives. It's incredibly non-specific and unhelpful.   And when someone doesn't match it's easy to suggest that their behaviour or a reflection of their character must have been a contributing factor.  

 

There was a lot of stigma on my electives from where I went to medical school and where I grew up/am currently living. The two questions that often changed how a resident or staff interacted with me on elective was 1) where I did medical school and 2) where I'm "from", two things I couldn't ever control.  There's already some mental bias there in regards to applicant selection potentially that you have no control over.  In addition, everyone has an agenda or values on who they think would be the best person for the program.  Sometimes it's about geography.  Other times it's about what extracurriculars people have in common - for instance, talking about research may impress one staff/resident but annoy another. Unless its your home school, you have a very difficult time exploring or understanding these biases.  In addition, a lot of the selection committees have individuals that throw in more weight than others - some faculty or residents may be swayed by how one "big name" may advocate for their student versus another, even if they've never worked with the student before.  Residents have a lot of say as well, for better or worse - maybe two people didn't have the same sense of humour or understanding of what "hard-working" means.   These seemingly minor things really add up when it comes to highly competitive specialties, because it's used as the differentiating factor when candidates are so similar on paper. 

 

It's a highly, highly imperfect process that other residents I'm sure can attribute to.  We all have our mental biases, and as we become more senior it's easy to let that decide who we would vouch for at a highly stressful time like CaRMS.  I'm very lucky to have matched, and I think others who didn't are by no means any lesser (even probably greater) candidates than myself. However I do believe it's important to remember subjectivity plays an even bigger role at the CaRMS level that goes beyond simply "avoiding being an asshole" ever does.  

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Your patients won't care you had went unmatched. Neither will your preceptors. Neither will exam markers. Neither will your SO or resident colleagues. I have IMG colleagues in my program that tried for years to come back to Canada. I don't treat them any differently than CMG residents. I have a friend from med school who was unsuccessful matching to derm in the first round in 2015. They have a lot of perseverance. The system isn't kind. The system is never kind. But you aren't branded by other people so hopefully that feeling dissipates once you're done residency and working and making your community better.

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 However I do believe it's important to remember subjectivity plays an even bigger role at the CaRMS level that goes beyond simply "avoiding being an asshole" ever does.  

 

Maybe I should have been more specific : respect everyone you interact with. Some really talented students try to look too good and throw their colleague under the bus, answer questions not directly asked to them, say nasty thing about consultant/emergency room staff/nurse. I've seen it and I know that behavior has cost many students an interview.

 

I did not mean that people that went unmatched had that behavior. I'm sorry that was understood that way. 

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Thanks! Matched to family. I think I can find a niche to be happy in. I'm hopeful.

 

Thanks! I'm sure the feeling will go away eventually, it hasn't yet though.

 

Oh I didn't mean you specifically! I've just heard it from a lot of people lately.

 

Congrats on matching amichel!

 

As others have said, I really don't think anyone would think less of you because you went unmatched the first time round. If anything, "we are our worst critic/enemy". 

 

A classmate of mine matched to psych in round 2. And I could not be happier for this person.

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Nonetheless - the questions 4th year students need to ask themselves is this: if you don't get your plan A, do you want plan B to be:

 

1) ending up in a back-up specialty of your choosing, in a location of your choosing? or

 

2) scrambling to create an application in 1 week to a multitude of specialties that you've never even considered in an assortment of locations you've never even been to, while watching all your classmates celebrate their match? Then re-doing the personal letter writing, interviewing, waiting process while your classmates prep for LMCC, which you've majorly backburnered to get through round 2? Then if second round doesn't work out (which in the past - the match rate in round 2 is highly variable and sits around ~60%, so its possible), facing the terrifying prospect of "what now?" Yes there are anecdotal unmatched success stories - but I guarantee you many of those unmatched would not wish the process on anyone and would not voluntarily sign up for it.

 

If you think 1 > 2: you need to have a solid back-up and "I'll just grab a spot in round 2" really isn't one. 

 

Oh absolutely, I would not argue in any way that the second round is a reliable game plan for CMGs. I think CMGs have far better odds of landing a second round spot than IMGs, and even among comparable candidates I'd give an edge to CMGs, but as you point out, better doesn't equal good. Those who land a second round spot have to fight for it, no question.

 

 

Thanks! Matched to family. I think I can find a niche to be happy in. I'm hopeful.

 

Congrats amichel - I know it wasn't your first choice, but glad to have you as a colleague in FM  :D

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you would think it wouldn't happy - but it DOES. 

 

First off as you know at this point med students are run down, tired, under constant stress, and basically sick of being yelled at. Probably there is some learned behaviour with some as well as often everyone around them can be doing it as well. Plus you are trying to impress so that can easily flip to showing off at times for many, and ignoring people that you think aren't important to save energy to look good to those that do. Some gets in your way letting you shine on your elective and some people kind of snap. 

 

People aren't really themselves often during this process (after a year plus of sleep deprivation) and can do things they wouldn't do at any other point. 

 

Any advice on the "showing off" part and how to avoid that into residency?  It was a big shocker to me any my classmates when sometimes knowing too much is a sin compared to knowing nothing at all...

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Any advice on the "showing off" part and how to avoid that into residency?  It was a big shocker to me any my classmates when sometimes knowing too much is a sin compared to knowing nothing at all...

 

I haven't found that knowledge is ever a detriment in clerkship, or in residency I'm assuming, but how you present your knowledge is. Someone who goes out of their way to show how smart they are by making other students look bad, or by getting in the way of work that needs to be done, or just saying things for no other purpose than to try to impress a superior... these people seem to have worse outcomes, because they're working for themselves against others and no one wants to work with that kind of person. I've never seen a classmate get dinged for knowing too much and seen a few examples where lack of knowledge was noted. "Showing off' has nothing to do with how much a person knows, it's all about how they behave.

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Agreed.  There's never a problem with knowing too much.  There's a problem with showing off, or showing up other people around you.

 

Basically, don't jump in and answer a question that was asked to somebody else (unless it's re-directed to you or opened up to the floor), and don't purposely show anybody else up in other ways (particularly your seniors, but also your colleagues and your medical students).  For example, in front of the staff generally isn't the best time to question something that happened overnight, or a decision that somebody else made, unless you think patient safety is at risk, in which case you should obviously speak up.

 

Basically, make your teammates look good, and they will make you look good, and all will be well.  If you know things, and use it to help the team and help patients, people will notice and like you.  Make your teammates look bad, and you will look like an asshole.

 

Actually this was a little hard for me on electives because I genuinely get pretty excited when I know the answer, and I'm a blurter at the best of times, so sometimes I have to stop and count in my head to five or whatever before I answer a question, or I'll just blurt something out.

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great advi

 

Agreed.  There's never a problem with knowing too much.  There's a problem with showing off, or showing up other people around you.

 

Basically, don't jump in and answer a question that was asked to somebody else (unless it's re-directed to you or opened up to the floor), and don't purposely show anybody else up in other ways (particularly your seniors, but also your colleagues and your medical students).  For example, in front of the staff generally isn't the best time to question something that happened overnight, or a decision that somebody else made, unless you think patient safety is at risk, in which case you should obviously speak up.

 

Basically, make your teammates look good, and they will make you look good, and all will be well.  If you know things, and use it to help the team and help patients, people will notice and like you.  Make your teammates look bad, and you will look like an asshole.

 

Actually this was a little hard for me on electives because I genuinely get pretty excited when I know the answer, and I'm a blurter at the best of times, so sometimes I have to stop and count in my head to five or whatever before I answer a question, or I'll just blurt something out.

 

Great advice. I also tend to get very excited and blurt shit out so Ill be sure to count to 5 next time haha ;) 

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Agreed.  There's never a problem with knowing too much.  There's a problem with showing off, or showing up other people around you.

 

Basically, don't jump in and answer a question that was asked to somebody else (unless it's re-directed to you or opened up to the floor), and don't purposely show anybody else up in other ways (particularly your seniors, but also your colleagues and your medical students).  For example, in front of the staff generally isn't the best time to question something that happened overnight, or a decision that somebody else made, unless you think patient safety is at risk, in which case you should obviously speak up.

 

Basically, make your teammates look good, and they will make you look good, and all will be well.  If you know things, and use it to help the team and help patients, people will notice and like you.  Make your teammates look bad, and you will look like an asshole.

 

Actually this was a little hard for me on electives because I genuinely get pretty excited when I know the answer, and I'm a blurter at the best of times, so sometimes I have to stop and count in my head to five or whatever before I answer a question, or I'll just blurt something out.

I agree, I tend to get a little excited too, since it's so interesting!! 

 

It's also hard on electives...different institutions have different expectations on what it means to be a "good team player".  Some of them just want you to hang back and not get in the way at all.  Others don't expect residents to teach you much, you're supposed to "hang out".  Others do expect you to work and see patients, and be accurate with your findings.  It was really interesting but often a struggle to see what the expectations were.  Would really recommend to future students on electives to "test the waters" for the first week and see what it's like before pushing hard to impress.  

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It's true - very tricky.  This is why a helpful resident on electives can be your best friend, if they're willing to give you the scoop on how to impress the staff.

 

I definitely had a bad experience on an elective where I was expected to kind of sit back and chill and not do much.  It's not really in my nature.  Did very well in electives where the expectation was to get in there and do stuff.

 

The good thing is, it probably did give me an idea of what programs would be a better fit for my personality.

 

But at the time it was really frustrating.

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