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Wasteman

Is It Okay To Punch Nazi's?

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Hey guys, what're your thoughts with regards to the punching of self-proclaimed nazis? I ask this question because I was having a discussion with a respected friend of mine and she mentioned, in passing, that she's willing to punch Nazis. So, with the re-emergence of the 'alt-right', do you condone Nazi punching, do you think we'll see more of that in the future, and despite which ever way you lean, do you think that this will filter through in how you approach your patients? 

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Is it okay to punch a socialist?

 

You're drawing false equivalencies here my friend. One is a person that is, in some way, inspired by the political ideologies, movements, and or theories associated with a democratic control of the means of production. The other literally supports an ideology where the ultimate goal is genocide. I'm on the side that punching Nazi's is okay and should be taught to school children the world over. Much in the same way that we were taught to stop, drop and roll and our ABC's. 

 

Haha, but In all seriousness, I'm against violence. But I do understand the reasoning behind how and why people rationalize violence against Nazi's. I guess it's the same way how people are okay with violence against child rapists, terrorists, and murderers. All in all I do like that most people are resisting the idea that Nazism and totalitarianism is a simple matter of political opinion.

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The use of violence can be justified based on context, but I would find it hard to justify simply on the basis of encountering someone whose views differ from yours, irrespective of how extreme they are. It could definitely be understandable imo, but not necessarily justifiable. 

 

Sit. 1: A person you are talking to reveals that they are a nazi, and therefore they hate jews. You punch them. Imo this would be something that I do not understand nor find justifiable.

 

Sit. 2: A person you are talking to reveals that they are a nazi, and therefore they hate jews. You are Jewish yourself and this reminds you of family who was put in concentration camp. You punch them. I can understand why, but I am unsure as to whether that is justifiable. It is a human reaction though.

 

Sit. 3: A person you are talking to reveals that they are a nazi, and therefore they hate jews. Every day, they go to the local synagogue and intimidate or shout antisemitic remarks at the people of faith who go to the synagogue. Someone punches them. Definitely understandable, closer to something that I would consider to be justifiable.

 

Sit. 4: A person you see is a nazi, and therefore they hate jews. They are about to attack someone based on their ideology, and you punch them to stop them. Understandable and justifiable.

 

Short answer, it depends.

 

PS: comparing it to socialism is absolutely ludicrous and despicable.

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Why do you need to add "they hate jews" ?

 

I have a few questions for you, but I do want to let you know that an open conversation with you is something that I am absolutely not interested in based on (a) your post, (B) your username and © your picture - we all know how Herge felt about Blacks at the time. Is Nazism devoid of any form of racial hierarchization? Can you name or list any prominent Nazis or sub currents of that ideology that do not feel strongly unfavourably about Jews? 

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Nazism in its original form is against every religion, which is only common sense. Religions are useless in 2017. They are pure evil. Brainwashing. 

 

Tell me, what is wrong about Eugenism? Do you guys hate eugenism because it would give less jobs to doctors? Eugenism would be the end of a lot of genetics and mental disease. There is nothing wrong with eugenism.

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Nazism in its original form is against every religion, which is only common sense. Religions are useless in 2017. They are pure evil. Brainwashing. 

 

Tell me, what is wrong about Eugenism? Do you guys hate eugenism because it would give less jobs to doctors? Eugenism would be the end of a lot of genetics and mental disease. There is nothing wrong with eugenism.

 What you are thinking of does not sound like Nazism in the traditional sense. What distinguished Nazism from its sister forms of fascism was an inherent bias against racial groups, specifically Jews, Roma, and other "non-Aryan" races. If you examine various Nazi policies (i.e. the Nuremberg Laws), you will see a significant distinction between religion and ethnicity. A person who did not practice the Jewish faith, for example, could still be classified as a "subhuman" due to the existence of a Jewish parent or grandparent. Nazism actually refers to Jews as an ethnic group, and not as a religion. If you've read Mein Kampf, you will see that Hitler specifically hated ETHNIC groups, not just religious groups. While he was not a particularly religious man, he did have a special place in his black twisted heart for the occult, so your opposition to religion is obviously very different from his. It is safe to say that Nazism is inherently Anti-Semitic, Anti-Roma, and pro eugenics, as Hitler made repeated statements about eliminating "the weak" from society. Now, if you truly believe that this is an acceptable statement, which I sincerely hope is not the case, just remember the positive contributions to society made by people who would be deemed inferior by a traditional eugenicist or Nazi. (One of the finest scientific minds of the generation would be screened out in this case! Also, this is not my major argument for why Eugenics is wrong. I think this argument may appeal to people who dislike emotional arguments, which is what a lot of my main arguments against eugenics entail.)  

 

You might be mistaking what Eugen-ism is for the idea of genetic engineering, the idea that we may be able to fix genetic problems in utero that we can screen for. This is an interesting topic with some fascinating ethical dilemmas that is a very valid topic for discussion. Eugenics, however, in popular discussion, generally refers to the idea that some races are inherently superior to others. If you are referring to genetic engineering, I think you should clarify this, as self-proclaimed eugenicists from the past 200 years or so have made some particularly horrifying claims that any self respecting, decent human being should abhor. 

 

I actually think it is unfair to compare Nazism to Socialism for a number of reasons. The biggest one being is that socialism is not inherently racist. While I think it has serious flaws, Socialism is ultimately born out of a genuine attempt to create equality for everyone (whether or not it is a fair method or an effective one is obviously up for debate). Nazism is based on the idea that one race, specifically the "Aryan" race, is inherently superior to other races and as such must triumph over them. As an ideology, therefore, Nazism is INHERENTLY racist. Socialism, however flawed, is a significantly different ideology, one not based on racism. (Feel free to disagree with me on this point about socialism. My point is that the two ideologies are inherently different. And I am aware that Nazism is an amalgamation of National SOCIALISM. My point is that Nazi ideals go far beyond this point!)

 

On the topic of punching a Nazi, while I completely understand the urge to do so (I lost a LARGE portion of my family in the Holocaust), I don't think punching a Nazi is really the best way to get your point across. The best way to counter bad ideas is with good ideas, in my opinion. I think the best way to deal with a situation where you are confronted by a Nazi is to explain why their ideas are wrong. That being said, I cannot emphasize enough, I do understand the urge to punch a Nazi. Anybody who subscribes to such an ideology likely has either not thought very deeply about the world, or is just a nasty human being. I just think there are better and more effective ways to counter this ideology.

 

*Also, just a note on your beliefs on religion. This is a statement that definitely needs more explanation. Please explain why you feel that it is common sense that religion is stupid and claiming that it is pure evil. You need to flesh out these claims. It comes off as insensitive and a little arrogant to be honest. 

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Haha, naw this isn't a troll thread. I have final assignments and so on and wanted to just have something to discuss while I ride public transit. Anyway, when someone says that they're okay with punching Nazi's, I don't think that they mean to just haul-off and blast nazi's in the face whenever they rear their ugly heads. I just think it's a figurative gesture for people to express their unwillingness to even entertain this sort of rhetoric. I won't randomly attack a nozi, but at the same time, I would never try to convince them of something better, or even listen to anything they have to say. 

 

I used to be willing to engage these kinds of people in debates until I read a somewhat confessional post by someone that IS an Ex-Nazi. One of the things that stood out the most was when she said that most Nazi's aren't open to hearing other view points. She even said that she agreed with the notion of using violence against these people because it, at the very least, shows them that those sorts of behaviors and ideas aren't tolerated.

 

Here's an excerpt from what she wrote.

 

And from what I knew/know of people who identify as 'nazis' or 'alt-right' or 'fascists' or whatever fucking label they're trying to put on their idiocy... they're terrible people. The vast majority of whom are completely unwilling to entertain the idea they're wrong. It doesn't matter how eloquent you are, how patient you are, how peaceful you are, probably 98% of them will not listen and will not change their minds. There is something about the comradery of that hatred and pride that is more addictive than heroine. And that 2% that might be willing? They'll branch out on their own, secretly, and entertain those ideas. But that 2% isn't worth holding back [for].

 

 

On the topic of punching a Nazi, while I completely understand the urge to do so (I lost a LARGE portion of my family in the Holocaust), I don't think punching a Nazi is really the best way to get your point across. The best way to counter bad ideas is with good ideas, in my opinion. I think the best way to deal with a situation where you are confronted by a Nazi is to explain why their ideas are wrong. That being said, I cannot emphasize enough, I do understand the urge to punch a Nazi. Anybody who subscribes to such an ideology likely has either not thought very deeply about the world, or is just a nasty human being. I just think there are better and more effective ways to counter this ideology.

 

 

I agree with everything you've said. Except this above part. Violence is an extremely effective tool. See: American Suppression of Communism/Socialism. Though I am against violence, I can not ignore the realities of dialectical materialism and how these realities affect the modern world.

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