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26 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

my parents want to force me to do a thesis masters ASAP...but I dont want to. I want to take the year off and work / volunteer. But they keep saying that I will "waste time"...what do I say..

 

You are an adult, and over your life time, you will be making decisions that your parents  or your loved ones might not agree with. You are the only one who will be living with the consequences of your decisions and you must live true to yourself, so do not let other people impose their ideas on you.  I think it may be time to have a difficult conversation with your parents and talk about boundaries. It is also important to try to understand where your parents are coming from, they love you and they care for you and are concerned so perhaps it is a good idea to listen to their perspective maybe they have a point and perhaps their is something that you can learn from them. Show them that you appreciate your perspective, and tell them why you don't think masters is a good idea for you at that point, but it is something that you may consider in the future . Explain to them why you are making your decision to not o the masters: perhaps, you don't have a project that you are passionate about, or maybe you feel overwhelmed because you just finished undergrad, or maybe you want to take time off to reflect about your life.  Explain to them gently your perspective on things, and tell them that you will think thoroughly about their perspective, and you will make a decision that you think will be the most suitable for you at that point.  Also make sure that you convey to them that it is not your intentions to go against what they are telling you to do but you just feel uncomfortable about pursuing something that you are not passionate about. 

 

Best of Luck :)

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31 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

my parents want to force me to do a thesis masters ASAP...but I dont want to. I want to take the year off and work / volunteer. But they keep saying that I will "waste time"...what do I say..

I just spent 3 years doing a research-based masters degree that I hated so I can tell you that grad school can be quite hard/frustrating/a lot of work so if you're not interested in it, don't do it! I'm glad I did it just for the personal development and because I wasn't sure whether or not I liked research but you can work on both of those without doing a masters. It also won't do too much to help you get in to most medical schools unless you get a good amount of publications out of it (which only some schools care about). 

Bottom line - it's your life, do what you want to do! You're an adult and your parents can't force you to do anything. Explain to them that you don't think doing a masters program is the right decision for you and that you think your time off would be better dedicated to volunteering and working. Tell them you feel that working and volunteering aren't a waste of time but rather are just as good as a masters degree for improving your application and working on personal development. 

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Being in university is not automatically good! If it's not something you want to do and it won't necessarily help you get to where you want to be in life, it's a waste of your time in my opinion. Not worth it to do just to add "MSc" after your name!

You could explain that working a job (regardless of whether it's low-level or not) means you're earning money, which you will need lots of once you eventually get into medical school, and not doing a masters degree gives you time to volunteer and do other extracurriculars, which many medical schools look favourably upon. In my opinion, that sounds like a much more productive use of your time rather than earning another degree that you won't enjoy doing and won't get you to where you want to be. 

As for an argument for "what if you get rejected next time?", well... you just keep working, keep saving money, and keep applying! If you got an interview once without a masters you'll likely get one again without a masters, so it might even be most useful to you to spend your time improving your interview skills. 

Ultimately, it's your life - sometimes you just have to do what YOU think is best, even if others don't agree with it. As End Poverty said, you're the one who will be living with the consequences of your decisions. 

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:rolleyes:

I think there is good advice above. I think you should choose things that will let you grow and mature. Do things that might lead down other career paths that you could see yourself pursuing as well. Medicine doesn't always work out as an end game and I think having other viable options is usually wise.

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE OP

YOU'VE HEARD IT SO MANY TIMES (I just don't think it's getting through to you... this concern has come up for you in various ways and the answers have always been the same.... not gonna change) ......... forget med school apps for a second

IF YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE THE PASSION TO PURSUE A GRAD DEGREE, DON'T WANT TO DO RESEARCH, AND AT BEST WILL ONLY USE THE GRAD DEGREE FOR SOME "PERK" FOR MED SCHOOL ADMISSIONS......  DON'T WASTE A PI'S TIME. 

Unless you are actually going to put that degree to use, don't waste people's time and effort. 

Does your parents pay for your schooling? I "might" consider it if it was free...... otherwise with your situation never in a million years. Your heart just isn't in it. 

- G

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@GH0ST: Plenty of people are in Grad School because of a lack of better options (so they think), or because they feel lost. Why would it be a "waste" of a PI's time to do a grad degree to get into med school after if there is no specific, strong passion? Maybe he/she has no passion now, and develops one for his field as he/she learns and grows within it. Not everyone does a master's to get into a PhD program, and PI's aren't necessarily training every MA/MSc student for a life of academic research. A bit too harsh, there. 

All in all, I don't know that many people in grad school with an actual passion for whatever they study. Or, at least, that passion was not present at the time of application.

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@SunAndMoon (man this is a great new function... very cool)

Perhaps some poor wording... let me clarify my intentions.

Just because it may seem like they are lost or lack better options doesn't make it a good reason to continue with (or start) a graduate degree. A PI's first and foremost priority is to his/her research, developing their work further for future use, getting grants to support the livelihood of themselves and their staff. A student choosing to go into grad program with no real interest in the field or research will feel like they are pulling teeth trying to get through their program. 

It is a relative waste of a PI's time if the student isn't productive during their degree (ex. publications, significantly moving the research forward), since there's also significant time spent training a student and familiarizing them with the environment. If I was the PI I wouldn't take anyone unless they demonstrate a willingness to work hard and are interested in my research. 

Now it is completely possible that the OP can develop more passion towards a field after starting their degree... but following the OPs posts throughout the years... this individual has not demonstrated any interest in a graduate degree other than the "perks" associated with medical school admissions. 

Of course not all who do graduate degrees go on to do a PhD... I certainly didn't. Of course not all MA/MSc students are trained purely based on academic research, but to think that it isn't a significant component of a thesis-based grad degree would be folly. 

At the end of the day, if you don't have an interest in the field and want to do research... I don't recommend graduate degrees ... period, and is almost certainly not worth the suffering one has to go through just for med school admissions (especially since then all you want to do is leave at the first whiff of an acceptance letter). 

If the OP wants to work or volunteer for a year instead doesn't it make sense to pursue those options instead??? we're talking as if the OP has no other options when it's barely a month since the OP's rejection. 

I stand by what I said regarding the decision making process when deciding to do a graduate degree.

- G

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@GH0ST right? I've been dying to use it. Upon clarification, I agree with almost everything. I'll clarify some stuff as well: 

1 - Not being passionate about a field does not mean you will not produce anything of value, contribute meaningfully or "repay" your PI with hard work. Passion helps, but it is not necessarily the limiting factor.

2 - Yes, of course. It is likely that most MA/MScs undertook a thesis-based degree. What I meant by that is you are trained for academic research in the context of your master's, but there is not necessarily an expectation that you will go on to a PhD, and then move on to the life of the academic.

PIs know all of this.  I guess what prompted me to reply to you is the fact that I saw your decision-making process as one that was at least partly oriented towards the PI as a focal point. If you work hard and contribute, I would say go ahead and do a master's. You do not owe the PI anything more than that (as long as you don't lie and pretend otherwise lol).

As to your question, yeah I understand and agree. I did both (took a year off then went for an MA) so I see the value in both. I wasn't necessarily replying to OP...it's just that your comment ticked me a little before you clarified :)

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I think that there is a good point about a graduate degree being made here. I would certainly hate to waste a PIs time. More importantly do not and I repeat do not do a research based masters if you have no interest in it. You will honestly hate it so much, and try to leave early if a school will accept you. Which is shitty for the PI. Ultimately though there are just so many course based master programs out there if you really feel it is better to go to school instead of taking a year off. IE. MPH which is becoming very relevent. 

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Hey OP. I think many of us can relate to your situation, as a lot of us have been rejected. I previously used to take my parents advice very seriously, as I desperately wanted their approval. Very recently, I got fed up with it and ended up moving out. I won't lie, it was a very difficult transition because a lot of my identity was defined by how my parents perceived me. That being said, I was able to do things my own way, which was much more conducive to me getting into medicine. This was actually fairly recent, as I only got in last year! Obviously, our circumstances might be different, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. :)

 

2 hours ago, MarsRover said:

I think that there is a good point about a graduate degree being made here. I would certainly hate to waste a PIs time. More importantly do not and I repeat do not do a research based masters if you have no interest in it. 

 
 
 
 

I agree with robclem21. Your motivation to pursue a career is your own conviction. I really dislike when some people judge their peers in that way. Almost as if their reason for pursuing medicine or grad school "isn't pure enough". You are not on a moral high ground. Whatever your formula was that inspired you to pursue your path is a good enough reason. (Obviously no malicious intent or anything illegal). Whether it be a random formula of money + prestige + lifestyle + passion, do you.

Even though you think your intentions are justifiable, I bet that someone else might think that your motivations are not good enough to be a (insert profession here). Maybe you don't want it for the right reasons in their eyes. Maybe they think you aren't worthy. 

2 hours ago, MarsRover said:

You will honestly hate it so much, and try to leave early if a school will accept you. 

 

Let's not assume behaviours of people who choose to pursue graduate degrees, saying they will hate it and leave. Many friends I know apply to medicine during their masters. They got accepted into medicine and then deferred the year to finish their work (yes, this is an option at some schools). Also, I didn't really go into my degree program thinking I'd love it. I ended up finding passion in it though. 

Being able to work in a job you love and are passionate about is a privilege that not many people get to experience. A lot of people have to pursue other careers as a necessity.

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1 hour ago, InstantRamen said:

Hey OP. I think many of us can relate to your situation, as a lot of us have been rejected. I previously used to take my parents advice very seriously, as I desperately wanted their approval. Very recently, I got fed up with it and ended up moving out. I won't lie, it was a very difficult transition because a lot of my identity was defined by how my parents perceived me. That being said, I was able to do things my own way, which was much more conducive to me getting into medicine. This was actually fairly recent, as I only got in last year! Obviously, our circumstances might be different, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. :)

 

I agree with robclem21. Your motivation to pursue a career is your own conviction. I really dislike when some people judge their peers in that way. Almost as if their reason for pursuing medicine or grad school "isn't pure enough". You are not on a moral high ground. Whatever your formula was that inspired you to pursue your path is a good enough reason. (Obviously no malicious intent or anything illegal). Whether it be a random formula of money + prestige + lifestyle + passion, do you.

Even though you think your intentions are justifiable, I bet that someone else might think that your motivations are not good enough to be a (insert profession here). Maybe you don't want it for the right reasons in their eyes. Maybe they think you aren't worthy. 

Let's not assume behaviours of people who choose to pursue graduate degrees, saying they will hate it and leave. Many friends I know apply to medicine during their masters. They got accepted into medicine and then deferred the year to finish their work (yes, this is an option at some schools). Also, I didn't really go into my degree program thinking I'd love it. I ended up finding passion in it though. 

Being able to work in a job you love and are passionate about is a privilege that not many people get to experience. A lot of people have to pursue other careers as a necessity.

 

I agree, Instant Ramen.  You make a lot of good comments :) In an ideal world, you would do what you are passionate about. However, what if you can not do something that you are truly passionate about and life necessitates that you do something else? --> You still have bills to pay, family to take care of and pursuing a plan B even if it is not your ideal option would be the right choice.  Sometimes you have to make a decision and choose something when all options involve a loss to you.  

I believe that as long as you work hard in your masters, and respect your commitments to your PI, and appreciate your PI and are able to contribute to the lab positively, then it is okay to pursue a grad degree even if you are not very passionate about the topic. 

I did many things in life that I was not very passionate about, yet I was very successful in it because I had a strong work ethic and whenever I started a project I put all my effort into it and followed through with my commitments.  Not being passionate about the project does not equate not being hard worker and respectful to your supervisor and other team members. 

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@SunAndMoon this is AWESOME!

Yes I do see where you are coming from and to all those that may be reading this post chain I apologize if it seemed inflammatory. That wasn't my intention. 

I tend to think more from the other person's POV ... almost too much so. I'm of the personality that I hate inconveniencing others... so it goes without saying I don't want that to hurt my progress should I pursue a grad degree and my relationship with the PI. 

Anyways this topic in itself has been flogged greatly. Now it's time for the OP to take the next steps. 

- G

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1 hour ago, InstantRamen said:

Hey OP. I think many of us can relate to your situation, as a lot of us have been rejected. I previously used to take my parents advice very seriously, as I desperately wanted their approval. Very recently, I got fed up with it and ended up moving out. I won't lie, it was a very difficult transition because a lot of my identity was defined by how my parents perceived me. That being said, I was able to do things my own way, which was much more conducive to me getting into medicine. This was actually fairly recent, as I only got in last year! Obviously, our circumstances might be different, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. :)

 

I agree with robclem21. Your motivation to pursue a career is your own conviction. I really dislike when some people judge their peers in that way. Almost as if their reason for pursuing medicine or grad school "isn't pure enough". You are not on a moral high ground. Whatever your formula was that inspired you to pursue your path is a good enough reason. (Obviously no malicious intent or anything illegal). Whether it be a random formula of money + prestige + lifestyle + passion, do you.

Even though you think your intentions are justifiable, I bet that someone else might think that your motivations are not good enough to be a (insert profession here). Maybe you don't want it for the right reasons in their eyes. Maybe they think you aren't worthy. 

Let's not assume behaviours of people who choose to pursue graduate degrees, saying they will hate it and leave. Many friends I know apply to medicine during their masters. They got accepted into medicine and then deferred the year to finish their work (yes, this is an option at some schools). Also, I didn't really go into my degree program thinking I'd love it. I ended up finding passion in it though. 

Being able to work in a job you love and are passionate about is a privilege that not many people get to experience. A lot of people have to pursue other careers as a necessity.

I agree people should and can pursue medicine and education in general for whatever reason. My rationale for telling the OP to not pursue a thesis based masters was that it is a lot of lab based work and research, and if you don't enjoy that stuff you won't like it. The OP has literally said

"my parents want to force me to do a thesis masters ASAP...but I dont want to. I want to take the year off and work / volunteer. But they keep saying that I will "waste time"...what do I say.." 

So that is a pretty obvious and strongly worded desire to not do a thesis masters, and it won't get any better during the year. I am just suggesting instead if the OP doesn't want to go against their parents wishes, that to pursue a course based masters might be a good idea. This will be more similar to undergrad in teaching, and likely be more enjoyable and a good compromise. I just think given the fact that there are thesis and course based masters out there the OP would likely enjoy the latter more. I wasn't saying that a person cannot ever do a thesis based masters unless they want to do research as their end goal. Just that there are other options out there, and given the OP's own expressed desires and posts over the last year they might enjoy this more.  It is not as if adcoms will give any preference to thesis or course based. 

 

 I wasn't trying to suggest that anyone should only have "pure" intentions for doing a thesis based graduate degree. Only giving advice that there are many other options out there and one doesn't have to feel they need to do that if they don't get in. There is a difference between thinking you might not like a program you are entering and openly not wanting to go in it at all. 

 

EDIT: I will add i have a hard time accepting pay and prestige as the first reasons for med. That is because I think physicians (of specific specialties) should be paid more modestly to an extent. The belief of prestige is closely tied to elitism and paternalism which are not conducive to good collaboration or patient outcomes. Which I'd be happy to have a moderated and intellectual conversation about :). With all that said i only express these opinions in this forum and do not go around railing on people in my classes or otherwise. 

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@GH0ST If given the choice between another two years of courses plus exams, or doing some research while practicing your skills and hopefully securing a future reference letter, I know I'd choose the research. I get the feeling that it's not really the type of graduate degree that's the issue here, more so the idea of grinding through more school versus potentially getting income and boosting ECs. 

@YesIcan55 If you're intent on trying to convince your parents that working is the better choice for you, this is what I'd say to support it. Since your application (and by extension, academics) was already strong enough for an interview offer, going out into the world and working/volunteering may be more beneficial to advancing to the next step of getting an acceptance offer. You'll be able to gain more personal experiences that you can draw on, as well as focus on improving interpersonal skills, without necessarily worrying about being evaluated. Moreover, remind yourself and your parents that the only options aren't limited to either a Masters or McDonald's; prep companies are always looking for teachers (pay's not too much better than McDonald's, but the nature of the work is. Also, it's great for practicing communication and problem solving), for example, and you can also check with local organizations (and hospitals) to see what's available for someone with your experiences or skill set. As for what happens if you still don't get in the next cycle, having been invited to (an) interview(s), you're already really close to getting in. A job with a regular schedule would give you more time to prep and improve your application as opposed to doing a thesis that may require a high time commitment depending on your field (experiments that run late, background readings you're expected to complete, odd hours on weekends, etc). Lastly, everyone's different, and just because some people choose to do an MSc while waiting for med school applications, that doesn't mean it's the best course of action for you. One last thing that I'm not sure has been taken into consideration yet, is the fact that the deadline for most graduate applications have passed. While some are still open (eg. McGill's is due in July), it doesn't leave you much time to find a PI and project that you'll work well with, much less one who'll accept someone who may jump ship midway. I'm sure if you dig hard enough, there will be a lab for you, though you're still disadvantaged time-wise for finding funding for the degree.

Best of luck!

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30 minutes ago, lulu95 said:

One last thing that I'm not sure has been taken into consideration yet, is the fact that the deadline for most graduate applications have passed. While some are still open (eg. McGill's is due in July), it doesn't leave you much time to find a PI and project that you'll work well with, much less one who'll accept someone who may jump ship midway. I'm sure if you dig hard enough, there will be a lab for you, though you're still disadvantaged time-wise for finding funding for the degree.

This is very true, and may also work to your advantage making your case to your parents. Deadlines can vary a great deal between universities and between departments within universities. It's realistic that the earliest possible start date for you might be January 2018, but July or September 2018 may be more likely depending on the program you're interested in. (In my department, applications were due in December 2016 for a September 2017 start, and it's difficult to get around that except if the PI really, really fights for you). And thesis-based MScs can also be very competitive because of the need to find funding to support yourself.

With that timeline in mind, it might take just as long to get into an MSc that's a good fit for you as it will to get into med. So perhaps explaining these timelines realistically to your parents will also give you some extra evidence that working/volunteering in the meantime before the next round of med applications is a good use of time? You can always apply to both Med and MSc programs next year to give you some time, and then make a decision about an MSc in 2018 if you get an offer you're happy with but don't get into med in the next round.

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  • 3 months later...
On 5/29/2017 at 0:29 AM, YesIcan55 said:

I am making this post to just vent, I didn't know this is how it would feel like, didn't know I would be this sad....it has been over three weeks since I got the rejection email and I thought things were getting better but today it hit me. I feel like puking. It feels like I wasted four years of my life doing a useless life science degree. I can't find a job anywhere. I am literally going to have to resort to McDonald's. I went to McDonald's today and was thinking of asking for an application, but knowing how much of a failure I am I will get rejected there as well. All those years of laughing at the stereotype of a science grad working at fast food upon graduation might be me. All those late nights studying, those wasted weekends stuck in my room while everyone was out having a good time mean nothing now....I am willing to apply until I get in, but I feel like I disappointed my family, friends, loved ones, everyone. Everyone supported me so much, now I feel so many people doubt me. I want this to get better. 

:-(

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