Unclear About Not Matching

[anesthete]

Hi all,

I have searched through a few of these threads, and have asked some of my classmates (and some residents) about what happens if you go unmatched more than once... nobody I have spoken to has been through the process more than once.. so

I am hoping somebody can help shine a light on the following:

 

A) If you aim for a competitive specialty and go unmatched in the first round (and are still committed to pursuing the initial specialty you wanted - ie, you dont want to take another discipline in the second round of CaRMS) are you ever able to apply to the first round again?

 

If you go unmatched and just take a year 'off' (more or less) when you apply again, are you in considered in the first round? 

 

C) Any stories of people going unmatched for more than one round, and continue to try for the specialty they want?

 

Thanks for any help clarifying this.

[ellorie]

If you don't have any prior postgraduate/residency training you go into the first round.

[ralk]

A) Yes, unmatched applicants can still apply for the first round.

 

Yes, situation is no different if a year is taken off.

 

C) Many people try for competitive specialties on their second CaRMS year, some successfully land those positions. Perhaps risky, but doable. Aren't too many people with stories of people who have tried to match in their third cycle who have shared them publicly, and at that point, the consensus advice to go for literally any program that'll offer a position seems like it's a good suggestion.

[buddhasblend]

If you don't have any prior postgraduate/residency training you go into the first round.

Does this mean that if we choose to do a Masters or PhD during the year off, we can no longer be considered for first round?

[ellorie]

No because that is not postgraduate residency training.

[rmorelan]

No because that is not postgraduate residency training.

 

and I know people that have done exactly that and applied next to first round successfully to competitive things. I should mention it may work out better for you do just do the graduate studies in residency under something like the clinical scientist programs that most schools have. 

[bearded frog]

As long as you never match, you apply in first round (assuming you are eligible for the first round originally. You can apply to whatever you want in your second year but generally people will apply broadly to multiple specialties as backup so they will at least match to something. There have been many people who took a year off to augment their application and were successful the next time around to a competitive specialty.

 

Many schools will let you stay enrolled for a period of time to allow you to do more electives following the match, however each school may have requirements for you to allow you to do this, such as requiring you to apply broadly in the second round to any available spots, even if its not your desired specialty.

[rmorelan]

As long as you never match, you apply in first round (assuming you are eligible for the first round originally. You can apply to whatever you want in your second year but generally people will apply broadly to multiple specialties as backup so they will at least match to something. There have been many people who took a year off to augment their application and were successful the next time around to a competitive specialty.

 

Many schools will let you stay enrolled for a period of time to allow you to do more electives following the match, however each school may have requirements for you to allow you to do this, such as requiring you to apply broadly in the second round to any available spots, even if its not your desired specialty.

 

and some charge tuition for the privilege. A nice little further hit if you don't match - ouch.

[shikimate]

Yes as long as you are not enrolled in any residency, you will always compete in the first round.

 

Having said that two unsuccessful rounds looks very poor on your record unless there is some exceptional circumstance.

 

Only one example I know of is someone who tried 2 years of a medium-medium high competitive specialty and did not match both times (doing master in mean time). Eventually matched to family on 3rd try.

[BiscuitBoy]

Do you guys know why people do not match? Like is going for a competitive specialty just a gamble? If not, what are the best ways to ensure you do match?

 

Thanks,

[rmorelan]

Do you guys know why people do not match? Like is going for a competitive specialty just a gamble? If not, what are the best ways to ensure you do match?

 

Thanks,

 

there are a ton of reasons:

a) bad luck - you can do everything right, look good on paper, and still not match and you probably won't every know why. That is the worst fear of many med students in the process. It truly is possible to make no mistakes and still not get what you want. Happens to a few people likely at each school each year.

b ) apply only to a competitive specialty - no back up is risky.  Gunner reach for the stars and sometimes get burned. 

c) apply only to a small geographical area - for whatever reason. 

d) don't apply to as many places as you could for what you want in general. If you what X you apply to as many programs doing X that you would rather do than go unmatched. It costs more, is more annoying but with lucky involved you have minimize the risks. Better apply than be suck on the sidelines for either the pain for round 2 or on your ass for a year with uncertain chances even then.

e) have a lousy application - ha, no ECs, no research, no obvserverships, no networking, no awards, impress no one on service, have weak LORs. If you suck they will find out. 

f) actually be worse than lousy - have red flags like failed courses, professionalism issues, and so one that make you a black sheep in the process. In a sense you can be targeted for failure if you really piss people off. You don't want to be someone's mission in life in a bad way.

..............

over top of all this is the problem that most medical students have been hard working/smart AND lucky - for a lot of their lives. They don't often consider real failure as a possibility - why would they ha. Not matching in CARMS could be the first true failure they have had of any real significance for instance. They can therefore in some cases (all very general here) over estimate their chances and reduce their prep accordingly as a result.  Don't do that. 

 

 now for the bright spot - most people do well in CARMS and do match just fine. The fear of failure is a powerful motivator to not take short cuts and do the right things for success - boosting their chances. 

[rmorelan]

drat part 2 of your question, and this is a personal take of course:

 

remember what they are looking for:

1) hard working

2) smart

3) not a jerk

4) interest in the field. 

 

those seem to be the core 4 things everyone wants to various degrees. You should develop and manifest a strong position if you can in those areas. If you could you will be more competitive. 

 

Apply to every place you would rather go to than go unmatched in your chosen areas. Doesn't matter how unlikely that it is you will match. Taking it the other way - don't apply to things you would not rather do than match (so if you would rather quit medicine and go work at the GAP than be a family doctor, then don't apply to family medicine. Otherwise apply to family medicine). Remember you rank things so if you want specialty X but would prefer family to going unmatched rank family after X. If you get family then remember you were not going to get X and give that realty you wanted family more than nothing.

 

side note schools may seem to be pushing family - and sometimes they are as it makes their numbers better, the government likes family medicine grads (on paper at least), and it is soul crushing for them as well to deal with 20 people stuck without anything. They aren't pushing it to be mean really - they know what happens to the unmatched and are scared by their experiences with it. Take the advice but still decide what you want to do. 

[shikimate]

In addition to what Rob said, another new phenomenon in the last few years is been too diversified and picking backups that are competitive now. For example internal is no longer a backup, urban family a risky backup. 

[GrouchoMarx]

I just read Liar's Poker and wish I had before starting medicine. So many parallels.