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Zack65

Average salary for fresh grad out of school?

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I agree with the above who said it depends. Depends on where you want to work (rural vs urban).   I'm about 1 year out in BC in my 2nd associateship, and I'm grossing on average about 15-16K per month working 5 days 45 hours a week. But I know people who make significantly more than that and work less hours and people who make significantly less than that  throughout the province. Generally, the Vancouver mainland, you don't make as much because of market saturation of dentists but go to a small, rural place like Fort St John or Fort Nelson, you can easily rake in +200K.

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2 hours ago, Pauls said:

don't focus too much on money first year out, instead focus on finding a good mentor and a practice where you can improve your clinical skills that will help you out in the long run

So true, unfortunately hard to find these jobs in the GTA based on my experience. Most associate positions available are in dentists' second or third offices or covering for a dentist on evenings and weekends. I started off right in the city and after 2 months realized I was making very little money and more importantly getting no experience. I then decided to move outside the city, 1-1.5 hours from Toronto and more than doubled my production and getting way more experience with endo, exos, dentures etc.

Based on that I can imagine how much more one would make working in Northern Ontario or in other provinces where there isn't such a saturation of dentists.

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Agreed. Based on my experience,  it's rare to find mentorship because the owner is too busy to provide that.  I think owners pretty much want you to be self-sufficient. That was my experience at my first associateship because the owner didn't really seem interested in answering my questions or helping me out. I pretty much learned on my own through Youtube videos, and Dentaltown website chatting with other dentists. Besides, I get suspicious when the owner mentions he will provide mentorship because then the owner sees you as the naive, new grad and they're more likely to pull tricks on you. It's sad but it happens a lot in dentistry. I'm sure there are decent owners out there willing to help, but it's rare. Everybody looks out for their own self-interests in dentistry.

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On 2017-07-24 at 2:19 PM, Jason50 said:

I agree with the above who said it depends. Depends on where you want to work (rural vs urban).   I'm about 1 year out in BC in my 2nd associateship, and I'm grossing on average about 15-16K per month working 5 days 45 hours a week. But I know people who make significantly more than that and work less hours and people who make significantly less than that  throughout the province. Generally, the Vancouver mainland, you don't make as much because of market saturation of dentists but go to a small, rural place like Fort St John or Fort Nelson, you can easily rake in +200K.

your gross production is 16k per month? what percentage do you get from that? 40% ?

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5 hours ago, malkynn said:

Except that that's assuming no clinic closure for holidays and no vacation time. 

I never calculate my anticipated salary by multiplying my monthly by 12. 

Exactly. And some months are better or worse than others. A few months in an associateship may not be sufficient to determine if the level of production will persist year round.

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16 hours ago, Clapton said:

Anyway, we don't care about money ! We're freaks !

yeah, the bills will pay themselves!

 

but yeah, my overall advice...don't stress about money. You will never be stressed financially as a dentist. The way I think about it is that your first year colleagues that do GPR make like $40,000 for the year, so even if you make $80,000 it's ok. Its more important that you get your reps in doing bread and butter dentistry and get your speed and confidence up for that first year. FInd out what you like and dont like and then you can start to tailor your CE towards your interests and add procedures which will then = $$$

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24 minutes ago, malkynn said:

This is patently untrue. Many dentists are stressed out of their minds over finances. It's actually not uncommon at all.

But yes, your point still stands. Focusing on maxing income right out of school is not a great plan. There's a lot to learn right out of school and keeping your spending low for the first few years is key to having the flexibility to change jobs if needed. 

You really don't want to get into a position early on where your cash flow is so crunched that you can't afford to have a major income drop for a few months. 

Financial stress is often not caused by lack of income, it's often caused by lack of financial flexibility. 

Would you say that most dentists are financially stressed because they're trying too hard to live the "doctor lifestyle"? I remember reading a stat that only 5% of dentists can actually retire by age 65 because of this reason.

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Yeah I was going to say that I'm under a fair bit of financial stress 5 years out of school.  A lot of that has to do with where I wanted to work and other financial choices I made but I live a pretty modest life.  I live and work in Toronto but I'm a recent homeowner of a very small house which is definitely a challenge financially.  

A lot of my stress has to with the fact that I can't predict my future income.  I have certain expenses but uncertain earnings.  My income for this year is looking to be about 25% lower than last due to a few different factors (similar hours worked though!). 

I think that with the way student debt is going, most new grads are going to be feeling a fair bit of stress (note that my debt was much lower than what most new grads will have today - especially US/Aus grads).  

There are towns where life is cheap and the income potential is good but it might not be where you planned on living.  Right now I'm working in a remote fly-in First Nation to help pay the bills.  This is my 'vacation' from my regular job.  It's not something I would do if not for the certain income it provides.  

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13 minutes ago, Pingu48 said:

*signs bank LOC, checks forums, goes back to bank to rip up agreement*

 

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.  This is our millennial reality.  Life is very expensive and there are very very few 'sure thing' careers left.  

So be a dentist.  But don't spend $500,000 to do so.  That ain't worth it under any circumstance.  And plan on living a couple of hours away from a major city.  You need to be flexible.

I'm still better off than most of my [*edit: non-dentist] friends.  I have a friend with a PhD who lives with his parents because he has to.  I have friends who have been working since their early 20s who will never be able to afford home ownership.  

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3 minutes ago, Ostracized said:

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.  This is our millennial reality.  Life is very expensive and there are very very few 'sure thing' careers left.  

So be a dentist.  But don't spend $500,000 to do so.  That ain't worth it under any circumstance.  And plan on living a couple of hours away from a major city.  You need to be flexible.

I'm still better off than most of my friends.  I have a friend with a PhD who lives with his parents because he has to.  I have friends who have been working since their early 20s who will never be able to afford home ownership.  

I don't even want to calculate the monthly interest payments if someone were to max out a $500,000 loan. Sounds like Canadian grads typically have around $200,000 debt, but it obviously varies a massive amount.

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20 minutes ago, malkynn said:

Trying to live even a modest lifestyle these days is insanely expensive. 

At the end of the day the career is lucrative, but until the debt is gone, it's a HUGE crunch on resources. 

After debt and retirement savings, I only actually get to spend about 20-30K each year. Now, that's because I want to retire in my early 50s, but I'm not doing this shit in my 60s, NOT GONNA HAPPEN. 

I have two choices: work a hell of a lot more and a hell of a lot longer OR don't spend much money. 

 

What's so bad about what you are doing now? @malkynn

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52 minutes ago, Ostracized said:

Because I make more than the dentist I work for.

 

Baller.

 

51 minutes ago, malkynn said:

Trying to live even a modest lifestyle these days is insanely expensive. 

At the end of the day the career is lucrative, but until the debt is gone, it's a HUGE crunch on resources. 

After debt and retirement savings, I only actually get to spend about 20-30K each year. Now, that's because I want to retire in my early 50s, but I'm not doing this shit in my 60s, NOT GONNA HAPPEN. 

I have two choices: work a hell of a lot more and a hell of a lot longer OR don't spend much money. 

 

Ah okay, I see. Thanks for the insight, really gotta start planning for retirement right away. 

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