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Disappointed I'm Going to Windsor

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Hi everybody,

I was wondering if any current Schulich Med students could chime in and talk about the London vs Windsor campuses. 

I will be attending the Windsor campus and am grateful for the opportunity but I feel that the Windsor campus is worse than London in most aspects. Here is why I feel this way:

  1. London is (in my opinion) a better city with a larger student population (and I feel having the medical school located on Western's campus adds to the community feel of the London campus)
  2. London has a brand new gym (which is located on the campus and near the school) whereas University of Windsor's gym is a 10 minute walk from the school and doesn't look nearly as nice.
  3. The London campus seems to be the more important campus (The majority of the yearly interview videos are filmed at the London campuses and most lecturers teach at the London campus)
  4. From reading past posts, it appears that Windsor has mainly video conferenced lectures and London has in-person lecturers (which is better if you want to ask questions after the lecture)

If Schulich students (especially Windsor students) could talk about their experiences with the Windsor campus and comment on the learning opportunities, quality of lectures and opportunities for shadowing and observerships that would be great because I am very excited to start my studies but still have these concerns.

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1 hour ago, WindsorMed said:

Hi everybody,

I was wondering if any current Schulich Med students could chime in and talk about the London vs Windsor campuses. 

I will be attending the Windsor campus and am grateful for the opportunity but I feel that the Windsor campus is worse than London in most aspects. Here is why I feel this way:

  1. London is (in my opinion) a better city with a larger student population (and I feel having the medical school located on Western's campus adds to the community feel of the London campus)
  2. London has a brand new gym (which is located on the campus and near the school) whereas University of Windsor's gym is a 10 minute walk from the school and doesn't look nearly as nice.
  3. The London campus seems to be the more important campus (The majority of the yearly interview videos are filmed at the London campuses and most lecturers teach at the London campus)
  4. From reading past posts, it appears that Windsor has mainly video conferenced lectures and London has in-person lecturers (which is better if you want to ask questions after the lecture)

If Schulich students (especially Windsor students) could talk about their experiences with the Windsor campus and comment on the learning opportunities, quality of lectures and opportunities for shadowing and observerships that would be great because I am very excited to start my studies but still have these concerns.

 

Regarding point 4: I've heard that a lot of students rely on video lectures even if they're on the london campus. Even outside of Western, I have a family member in medical school and according to his own admission he rarely attends lectures in-person. So I don't think this is really a big deal.

The other points all come down to personal preferences. I shared some of your concerns about opportunities for shadowing and observarships but I've been mostly re-assured that I'm not going to be negatively impacted in that area for attending the Windsor campus. Overall we will have to wait and see considering we have no reasonable alternative.

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5 hours ago, tavenan said:

 

Regarding point 4: I've heard that a lot of students rely on video lectures even if they're on the london campus. Even outside of Western, I have a family member in medical school and according to his own admission he rarely attends lectures in-person. So I don't think this is really a big deal.

The other points all come down to personal preferences. I shared some of your concerns about opportunities for shadowing and observarships but I've been mostly re-assured that I'm not going to be negatively impacted in that area for attending the Windsor campus. Overall we will have to wait and see considering we have no reasonable alternative.

yeah that is true -  ha, I was the one that created their video system originally so I know how popular it is.

a lot of it does come down to personal preference - as class president I was at both campuses for learning through out the year so have seen both sides. Of course more lecturers and students etc are at the London site - the medical school has been there forever compared to roughly compared to less than 15 years in Windsor - but I don't think that is as big of a concern as you might think. I really liked the set up at Windsor actually - better facilities overall (they are newer to start with and more thought out for modern medical school). Teaching is CLERKSHIP is more important by far than preclerkship and in many ways in Windsor there is a better clerkship experience. It is easy to focus on the first two years as they are the onest easiest to understand initially (most like your UG degree). Having few/no fellows/residents at Windsor puts the med students in a better position for learning the hands on stuff - the part that leads to letters and better elective performance. Probably plays a big role in how well the Windsor side does in CARMS. 

 

 

 

 

 

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I agree with rmorelan in that Windsor has it better off when it comes to developing your technical skills & "standing out" during clerkship. If the only thing that matters is your professional development then Windsor actually probably edges out London slightly (unless your end goal is to work in London).

The best part about being in London is the social aspect. You get to meet more classmates and avoid the ones you don't like (much more difficult in Windsor where the class is ~30 people). Past preclerkship this matters very little since you won't be spending much time as a class at that point.

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Thanks everybody, I feel most of my concerns have been addressed!

I am still a little worried about observerships. I looked at the 2016 - 2017 observership list posted on the Schulich Student Affairs Committee website, and it appears to be specific to London. However, I do not see an equivalent list for Windsor. How do Windsor students generally set up observerships if there isn't a similar list available for them?

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16 hours ago, WindsorMed said:

Thanks everybody, I feel most of my concerns have been addressed!

I am still a little worried about observerships. I looked at the 2016 - 2017 observership list posted on the Schulich Student Affairs Committee website, and it appears to be specific to London. However, I do not see an equivalent list for Windsor. How do Windsor students generally set up observerships if there isn't a similar list available for them?

I believe they have their own list and even if they don't, the upper-year students will know some contacts. I'd argue observerships are easier in Windsor than London because there's fewer learners crowding you out and those that are willing to take observers generally really want to have observers. I know a number of my Windsor classmates were able to develop some fairly close connections with the Windsor staff, especially in smaller fields.

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1 hour ago, ralk said:

I believe they have their own list and even if they don't, the upper-year students will know some contacts. I'd argue observerships are easier in Windsor than London because there's fewer learners crowding you out and those that are willing to take observers generally really want to have observers. I know a number of my Windsor classmates were able to develop some fairly close connections with the Windsor staff, especially in smaller fields.

That't reassuring! thank you!

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17 hours ago, WindsorMed said:

Hey all, 

Random question, but are the degrees different from London and Windsor (ie. do the degrees of the Windsor campus students have a University of Windsor logo on them) or are they identical?

Good question and I don't have a particularly good answer. I'm fairly certain all degrees are conferred by Western and Schulich, but I don't know if anything specifies that a student was a graduate from the Windsor campus. I don't think so, but can't say I ever got a close-up look at my Windsor classmates' degrees.

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7 hours ago, ralk said:

Good question and I don't have a particularly good answer. I'm fairly certain all degrees are conferred by Western and Schulich, but I don't know if anything specifies that a student was a graduate from the Windsor campus. I don't think so, but can't say I ever got a close-up look at my Windsor classmates' degrees.

yeah I am trying to remember - I think the degrees were exactly the same as they were conferred not by Windsor itself but Western. 

 

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You may know more about the city of Windsor than I do, but as an outsider, I'd like to chime in and say London is pretty homogeneous, has a small-town feel even downtown, and although Western campus is pretty unique in how lively it is, its party culture does get old fast for some people. Windsor as a city is way more diverse, has better ethnic food, and is only a 20-minute, $5 bus ride to Detroit. Detroit is a way cooler & cheaper place to catch a music show/festival/sporting event than Toronto, (a $30, 2.5h drive from London), where cool stuff sells out instantly and gets resold at 3-4x on StubHub (sorry got a little personal there haha). I saw Kanye at the Joe Louis last year and it was sweet. I'm doing a rotation in Windsor this year and I'm looking forward to daytrips to Detroit and better food/more diversity than London.

 

PS: I love london, I grew up here, but it has a lot more sentimental value to me than intrinsic value, haha

 

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I know a resident who was at the Windsor site, who initially thought of the perspective of it as meh...

however they got to do way more during clerkship, and therefore was able to learn way more. That resident therefore really liked their experience there.

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1 hour ago, Organomegaly said:

I know for the Mac regional campuses all the degrees are conferred by McMaster and NOT University of Waterloo 

yeah it has to be the same - they degree is definitely not from Windsor. The part I am not sure about is if there is any indication at all that you went to Windsor - I don't think there is but don't have an actual copy of one of the degrees in hand to state 100%

Windsor definitely has the chance to do a lot more things - few residents/fellowship really does give you an edge in that regard. You won't see (and by see I mean stand in the back against the wall for 6 hours trying not to fall asleep while squeaking in brief glimpses of maybe something) super rare or unusual procedures that sound exciting. What you will get is the stuff that actually gets you the leg up on electives and thus residency - like actually delivering a few dozen babies instead of fighting for one or two, first assisting all the time in the OR where you actually do stuff - actually cut and sew, or actually manage a floor in internal and so on. a main reason they started Windsor was it was just too crowded in London for the learning experience.  

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On 2017-08-06 at 5:03 PM, WindsorMed said:

Hi everybody,

I was wondering if any current Schulich Med students could chime in and talk about the London vs Windsor campuses. 

I will be attending the Windsor campus and am grateful for the opportunity but I feel that the Windsor campus is worse than London in most aspects. Here is why I feel this way:

  1. London is (in my opinion) a better city with a larger student population (and I feel having the medical school located on Western's campus adds to the community feel of the London campus)
  2. London has a brand new gym (which is located on the campus and near the school) whereas University of Windsor's gym is a 10 minute walk from the school and doesn't look nearly as nice.
  3. The London campus seems to be the more important campus (The majority of the yearly interview videos are filmed at the London campuses and most lecturers teach at the London campus)
  4. From reading past posts, it appears that Windsor has mainly video conferenced lectures and London has in-person lecturers (which is better if you want to ask questions after the lecture)

If Schulich students (especially Windsor students) could talk about their experiences with the Windsor campus and comment on the learning opportunities, quality of lectures and opportunities for shadowing and observerships that would be great because I am very excited to start my studies but still have these concerns.

Your post seems to be focusing on student life and the pre-clinical years.  Which is totally understandable since you just matriculated (congrats!), but I suspect your perspective will change in the coming years.  (/grumpyoldguy #getoffmylawn)

In the grand, long-term scheme of things, your pre-clinical student experience will not make or break your life and your career.  A gym is a gym.  I really enjoyed MS1 and MS2, but it was the CCs and the Rs that were important.  Windsor is really good for that.

 

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I too was disappointed when I was accepted at a satellite campus, however, for 2nd year med when I had the opportunity to switch to the main campus at a bigger city, I refused. The advantages of a 30 something class where you were given far more amazing opportunities outweighed any other possible considerations. I grew to love it in a hurry!

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5 hours ago, ploughboy said:

Your post seems to be focusing on student life and the pre-clinical years.  Which is totally understandable since you just matriculated (congrats!), but I suspect your perspective will change in the coming years.  (/grumpyoldguy #getoffmylawn)

In the grand, long-term scheme of things, your pre-clinical student experience will not make or break your life and your career.  A gym is a gym.  I really enjoyed MS1 and MS2, but it was the CCs and the Rs that were important.  Windsor is really good for that.

 

Yeah, really want to emphasize this. Coming from undergrad can make it seem like quality of classroom education is really important. In medical school, it's not. Good clinical experience that provides opportunities for experience without wearing your down too much is where the important learning happens. Satellite campuses, with smaller class sizes relative to their hospitals' catchment areas, I think tend to do a somewhat better job on that front.

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Sorry to revive a dead thread but it was pretty related and their aren't too many threads on Windsor:P.

 

I've been really lucky this cycle to have the option of choosing between Windsor and another school (large city). Distance to family and friends, cost of attendance, access to support etc all weigh in favor of the other school. However, I'm really drawn to the idea of the smaller campus and the opportunity to get to know your preceptors and get more hands on experience. I have no idea about specialties or anything like that yet but if I did decide to go down that road, wouldn't Windsor be at a disadvantage? eg. harder to arrange electives in xyz since it isn't offered at Windsor. I'm hoping not to shut any doors.

Could anyone advise? Thank you!

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8 hours ago, tacotacotaco said:

Sorry to revive a dead thread but it was pretty related and their aren't too many threads on Windsor:P.

 

I've been really lucky this cycle to have the option of choosing between Windsor and another school (large city). Distance to family and friends, cost of attendance, access to support etc all weigh in favor of the other school. However, I'm really drawn to the idea of the smaller campus and the opportunity to get to know your preceptors and get more hands on experience. I have no idea about specialties or anything like that yet but if I did decide to go down that road, wouldn't Windsor be at a disadvantage? eg. harder to arrange electives in xyz since it isn't offered at Windsor. I'm hoping not to shut any doors.

Could anyone advise? Thank you!

Windsor and other regional campuses can be at a disadvantage for the highly competitive specialties as well as the very niche tertiary specialties, it doesn't sink your chances but it could make it harder to match to your top choice or to match in general. However, most people don't end up wanting these specialties anyways so it really doesn't end up being a huge deal. However in your case, to me, distance to family and friends, cost of attendance, access to support are all huge factors and that would lead me to recommend you choosing the other school.

 

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On 6/21/2018 at 7:20 AM, Edict said:

Windsor and other regional campuses can be at a disadvantage for the highly competitive specialties as well as the very niche tertiary specialties, it doesn't sink your chances but it could make it harder to match to your top choice or to match in general. However, most people don't end up wanting these specialties anyways so it really doesn't end up being a huge deal. However in your case, to me, distance to family and friends, cost of attendance, access to support are all huge factors and that would lead me to recommend you choosing the other school.

 

Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate it.

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I  reiterate that I found a satellite campus with smaller classes giving greater opportunities and bonding with the local faculty. This only enhanced, did not diminish, my chances when residency came along!

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I asked a couple doctors about this when I was applying. They recommended picking a bigger city for the increased clinical opportunities. Even if you're not sure what specificity you want to try, a bigger city would have more options for you to try out, and you'd probably see a greater variety of cases during your clinical experiences. On top of the other benefits you mentioned (tuition, friends, family) it seems like a pretty great choice.  

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23 hours ago, Drake Ramoray said:

I asked a couple doctors about this when I was applying. They recommended picking a bigger city for the increased clinical opportunities. Even if you're not sure what specificity you want to try, a bigger city would have more options for you to try out, and you'd probably see a greater variety of cases during your clinical experiences. On top of the other benefits you mentioned (tuition, friends, family) it seems like a pretty great choice.  

I think that rationale works for residency, but not for medical school. Larger centres have more responsibility for rarer or more unique cases, but these cases aren't high-yield learning cases at the medical student level, where the focus is still rightfully on the bread-and-butter cases. Furthermore, at larger centres, there are far more learners ahead of you in the form of residents and fellows for those unique cases. To the extent a medical student might get more variety of cases in a larger centre, it's by sitting in a corner behind the 4 other people in the room. Meanwhile the student at the smaller centre is learning the important day-to-day cases directly with a staff person, maybe with a single resident ahead of them at worst.

To the extent getting into those rarer cases matters, it's during electives, which can be done anywhere regardless of home site. Clerkship is about getting the basics down. No one cares if you can correctly identify a rare genetic disorder that a sub-specialist sees once in their career if you can't read an ECG, or have a good differential for abdominal pain, or treat a COPD exacerbation. The weird stuff is for residency and fellowships.

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