Critical Care

[gb35]

Anyone have experience matching to critical care without electives? About to enter the MSM match, and there is the option to pull the chute and not enter the match until PGY4. This would let me get some electives, but prolong training by a year. 

[bearded frog]

Absolutely no idea how this works, but is it possible to apply for after 3rd year to Critical Care programs, then re-apply after 4th year if you don't match?

[gb35]

Unfortunately no. I'd be limited to the 2nd iteration if I was entering the match for a second time.

[ploughboy]

On 2017-08-09 at 6:27 PM, gb35 said:

Anyone have experience matching to critical care without electives? About to enter the MSM match, and there is the option to pull the chute and not enter the match until PGY4. This would let me get some electives, but prolong training by a year. 

No electives in the specialty?  I think it would be very difficult to match.

[bearded frog]

21 hours ago, gb35 said:

Unfortunately no. I'd be limited to the 2nd iteration if I was entering the match for a second time.

Really? I would have thought it would be like in the primary match where you can apply first round subsequently if you don't match at all.

[gb35]

On 2017-08-12 at 2:48 PM, ploughboy said:

No electives in the specialty?  I think it would be very difficult to match.

I would tend to agree with you. Though in IM, you can have done as many as 4 ICU rotations before CaRMS, and only had 2 electives. It would seem to me that it would be tough to fault someone for using the electives to address other deficiencies or rule out another interest, when you get so much ICU exposure through compulsory rotations and selectives. 

[GrouchoMarx]

On 09/08/2017 at 7:27 PM, gb35 said:

Anyone have experience matching to critical care without electives? About to enter the MSM match, and there is the option to pull the chute and not enter the match until PGY4. This would let me get some electives, but prolong training by a year. 

Have you considered the USA, where they don't have asinine match rules lIke carms does?

[A-Stark]

On 2017-08-13 at 5:42 PM, gb35 said:

I would tend to agree with you. Though in IM, you can have done as many as 4 ICU rotations before CaRMS, and only had 2 electives. It would seem to me that it would be tough to fault someone for using the electives to address other deficiencies or rule out another interest, when you get so much ICU exposure through compulsory rotations and selectives. 

Most programs don't require 4 ICU rotations let alone that many prior to September of R3. 

In any case, the MSM Critical Care match is a bit different. Anyone who has completed at least three years of base specialty (IM, Anesthesia, Gen Surg, etc.) may apply in the first iteration. The current preference is for applicants who have completed or will have completed their base specialty exams prior to starting a CCM program, though starting after three years of core IM certainly still happens. 

On 2017-08-09 at 7:57 PM, gb35 said:

Anyone have experience matching to critical care without electives? About to enter the MSM match, and there is the option to pull the chute and not enter the match until PGY4. This would let me get some electives, but prolong training by a year. 

This is certainly reasonable and would also allow you to complete your exams prior to starting CCM. You can certainly "pull the chute" (plug?) and delay. And you are guaranteed the R4 year which can be pretty slack all told. 

On the other hand, you can still enter this year's match. Most other applicants will have electives in CCM aside from mandatory rotations, but it could still work out for you. If you don't get a spot, you will certainly be eligible the next year. 

[gb35]

On 2017-08-17 at 10:32 PM, A-Stark said:

Most programs don't require 4 ICU rotations let alone that many prior to September of R3. 

In any case, the MSM Critical Care match is a bit different. Anyone who has completed at least three years of base specialty (IM, Anesthesia, Gen Surg, etc.) may apply in the first iteration. The current preference is for applicants who have completed or will have completed their base specialty exams prior to starting a CCM program, though starting after three years of core IM certainly still happens. 

This is certainly reasonable and would also allow you to complete your exams prior to starting CCM. You can certainly "pull the chute" (plug?) and delay. And you are guaranteed the R4 year which can be pretty slack all told. 

On the other hand, you can still enter this year's match. Most other applicants will have electives in CCM aside from mandatory rotations, but it could still work out for you. If you don't get a spot, you will certainly be eligible the next year. 

Thank for your reply. Two things:

-you said the current preference is to finish base specialty, but starting after 3 years of IM still happens. It seems to me, from the people I've talked to, that most IM applicants who match to CCM are matching after three, not four years. This is part of the reason I'm hesitant to do a fourth year.

 

-if I do not match this year, my understanding was that I could only apply in the second round of PGY4, but your last sentence seems to imply that's not true. Is this province dependant at all?

[A-Stark]

3 hours ago, gb35 said:

Thank for your reply. Two things:

-you said the current preference is to finish base specialty, but starting after 3 years of IM still happens. It seems to me, from the people I've talked to, that most IM applicants who match to CCM are matching after three, not four years. This is part of the reason I'm hesitant to do a fourth year.

Plenty of IM applicants complete 4 years first or even another subspecialty (e.g. resp, cardio, etc.). You can apply now and you will still be able to do electives for a stronger application next year. 

-if I do not match this year, my understanding was that I could only apply in the second round of PGY4, but your last sentence seems to imply that's not true. Is this province dependant at all?

That could be the case with certain other IM subspecialties, but not Critical Care. 

[gb35]

22 hours ago, A-Stark said:

Plenty of IM applicants complete 4 years first or even another subspecialty (e.g. resp, cardio, etc.). You can apply now and you will still be able to do electives for a stronger application next year. 

 

 

That could be the case with certain other IM subspecialties, but not Critical Care. 

I've been assured by our PGME Dean, and told by CaRMS, that if I enter MSM once, I cannot apply in the first round again for critical care.... do you have another source? I'd really really like to be proved wrong haha 

[A-Stark]

That might be true if you match via the MSM. 

[gb35]

7 minutes ago, A-Stark said:

That might be true if you match via the MSM. 

What do you mean? How else does one match?