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Science prereqs

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Hi everyone! 

Just like most of you, I want to pursue medicine after my undergrad. But I need your help and some kind of guidance. I've called McGill so many times and never seem to get any help... :/

Anyways a little bit about myself.. I finished CEGEP in Health Sciences but my grades were not that great (29.7 r score). Instead of following the common route, and doing a science bachelors, I wanted to try something different and am now doing my undergrad in Accounting at Concordia. Since I do not have any science courses right now, I wanted to take the four recommended courses on McGill's website as my electives. These four courses are mammalian physiology (PHGY 209), cell biology (BIOL 201), molecular biology (BIOL 200), and organic chem (CHEM 212).

After speaking to advisors from McGill, I learnt that it is not possible to take these courses and have them count as electives towards my Concordia degree. I then inquired about simply taking them as an independent student part-time concurrently with my studies at Concordia. When I called the Cont. Ed department at McGill, they said they do not offer science courses. I don't know what to do.. I've taken the seven basic science courses in Cegep, and therefore "qualify" to take the 4 courses, and have whichever set of classes is most favourable to me, count. But another issue is that these courses at Concordia are not considered equivalent according to McGill's course equivalency system, except for cell bio. Does anyone know if anyone has done this before? And if so, how? I simply want to take these four courses at McGill while I continue full-time at Concordia. If this isn't possible, where else are these four courses offered (that would be equal to McGill standards)?

If not, should i redo the seven courses I did at cegep... maybe at dawson night classes? And if i redo my cegep classes, will the new marks completely replace the old marks?

Thank you for reading :) any help is appreciated.  

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1 hour ago, medreamer said:

Hi everyone! 

Just like most of you, I want to pursue medicine after my undergrad. But I need your help and some kind of guidance. I've called McGill so many times and never seem to get any help... :/

Anyways a little bit about myself.. I finished CEGEP in Health Sciences but my grades were not that great (29.7 r score). Instead of following the common route, and doing a science bachelors, I wanted to try something different and am now doing my undergrad in Accounting at Concordia. Since I do not have any science courses right now, I wanted to take the four recommended courses on McGill's website as my electives. These four courses are mammalian physiology (PHGY 209), cell biology (BIOL 201), molecular biology (BIOL 200), and organic chem (CHEM 212).

After speaking to advisors from McGill, I learnt that it is not possible to take these courses and have them count as electives towards my Concordia degree. I then inquired about simply taking them as an independent student part-time concurrently with my studies at Concordia. When I called the Cont. Ed department at McGill, they said they do not offer science courses. I don't know what to do.. I've taken the seven basic science courses in Cegep, and therefore "qualify" to take the 4 courses, and have whichever set of classes is most favourable to me, count. But another issue is that these courses at Concordia are not considered equivalent according to McGill's course equivalency system, except for cell bio. Does anyone know if anyone has done this before? And if so, how? I simply want to take these four courses at McGill while I continue full-time at Concordia. If this isn't possible, where else are these four courses offered (that would be equal to McGill standards)?

If not, should i redo the seven courses I did at cegep... maybe at dawson night classes? And if i redo my cegep classes, will the new marks completely replace the old marks?

Thank you for reading :) any help is appreciated.  

https://www.mcgill.ca/mathscitable/d#CONCORDIAQC

Try this link - it details equivalency with courses at Corcordia at McGill.

 

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Thanks for answering! I took a look at the link, but there are no equivalencies for the courses I need to take.

The course codes above (BIOL 200, BIOL 201, PHGY 209, CHEM 212) are McGill classes. For example, as you can see on the chart, Organic chem at Concordia (CHEM 221) is not equal to McGill's CHEM 212. Similarly, the other courses do not even appear on the chart, because they aren't equivalent. 

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This sounds pretty tricky. Have you tried emailing the admissions office or giving them an in-person visit about this, if they don't answer by phone? I'm sure students who aren't from McGill have wondered about taking these recommended courses as well. 

This McGill equivalence thing sounds weird. It says that CHEM 221 is not equal to McGill's CHEM 212, and that CHEM 222 is equal to McGill's CHEM 222, yet says that CHEM 221 + 222 is equal to McGill's CHEM 212 + 222. I wonder if there's a mistake in there, as this makes no sense.

As for the 7 prereqs, yes, redoing them will completely overwrite your old CEGEP grades, assuming you do better. Dawson is a good choice for redoing them, as they are relatively cheap and easy compared to their university-level counterparts.

Sorry for not knowing more, but hope this helps a little!

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I have emailed many different people actually.. most haven't got back to me. One advisor just answered me today, saying that special students cannot take 200-level Science courses due to crowding. And, exactly! That's why I decided to write here on this forum... how is it possible that no one has previously inquired about taking courses without being admitted in an undergrad program? Also, I'm not sure exactly where I'd have to go to ask someone about this? Even when I call, I don't get a straight answer, or am transferred to someone else who tells me to call somewhere else.

Yes, it makes no sense at all! But I have a feeling that since taking Organic chem 1 (CHEM 221) at Concordia alone does not equal McGIll OG chem 1, you'd have to do both CHEM 221 and 222 to satisfy that one class.

By 'overwrite', do you mean that the old grades will replaced completely and won't appear on the transcript? Or that med admissions will only look at the second (hopefully better) grade?

Thank you for answering nonetheless:)

 

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Are you in town? If so I'd recommend dropping by then sending an email follow-up to have it in writing.

I don't know how rigorously the Faculty of Med follows the Course Equivalency System. I wouldn't want to mislead you but I think they are significantly less strict than that.

Another option you have is going through Athabasca. 

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33 minutes ago, medreamer said:

By 'overwrite', do you mean that the old grades will replaced completely and won't appear on the transcript? Or that med admissions will only look at the second (hopefully better) grade?

Well, they will still have access to your CEGEP transcripts and can see your old grades. They don't get erased. But they won't take them into any consideration. Your CEGEP grades don't play a role other than 20% of your post-interview consideration, and if you redo your prereqs and do better, then for that 20% they will exclusively look at your newer, better grades. In other words, if you redo your prereqs, your CEGEP grades will play no part whatsoever in the entire process :)

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1 hour ago, medreamer said:

I have emailed many different people actually.. most haven't got back to me. One advisor just answered me today, saying that special students cannot take 200-level Science courses due to crowding. And, exactly! That's why I decided to write here on this forum... how is it possible that no one has previously inquired about taking courses without being admitted in an undergrad program? Also, I'm not sure exactly where I'd have to go to ask someone about this? Even when I call, I don't get a straight answer, or am transferred to someone else who tells me to call somewhere else.

Yes, it makes no sense at all! But I have a feeling that since taking Organic chem 1 (CHEM 221) at Concordia alone does not equal McGIll OG chem 1, you'd have to do both CHEM 221 and 222 to satisfy that one class.

By 'overwrite', do you mean that the old grades will replaced completely and won't appear on the transcript? Or that med admissions will only look at the second (hopefully better) grade?

Thank you for answering nonetheless:)

 

I believe right now is probably the worst time in term of answer delays because the admissions' office is focusing on the applicant for this current cycle. 
I believe they will become more available after December.
Hope this can help! :)

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1 hour ago, medreamer said:

I have emailed many different people actually.. most haven't got back to me. One advisor just answered me today, saying that special students cannot take 200-level Science courses due to crowding. And, exactly! That's why I decided to write here on this forum... how is it possible that no one has previously inquired about taking courses without being admitted in an undergrad program? Also, I'm not sure exactly where I'd have to go to ask someone about this? Even when I call, I don't get a straight answer, or am transferred to someone else who tells me to call somewhere else.

Yes, it makes no sense at all! But I have a feeling that since taking Organic chem 1 (CHEM 221) at Concordia alone does not equal McGIll OG chem 1, you'd have to do both CHEM 221 and 222 to satisfy that one class.

By 'overwrite', do you mean that the old grades will replaced completely and won't appear on the transcript? Or that med admissions will only look at the second (hopefully better) grade?

Thank you for answering nonetheless:)

 

I believe right now is probably the worst time in term of answer delays because the admissions' office is focusing on the applicant for this current cycle. 
I believe they will become more available after December.
Hope this can help! :)

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3 hours ago, MedP111 said:

Well, they will still have access to your CEGEP transcripts and can see your old grades. They don't get erased. But they won't take them into any consideration. Your CEGEP grades don't play a role other than 20% of your post-interview consideration, and if you redo your prereqs and do better, then for that 20% they will exclusively look at your newer, better grades. In other words, if you redo your prereqs, your CEGEP grades will play no part whatsoever in the entire process :)

Perfect! Thank you :) 

I just have one more question.. do they also look at the science prereqs individually? Or is it just an overall science GPA? So for example, in that case, let's say I only redo some classes that I did 'more bad' in, get a better grade, which then balance out with the other not-so-bad ones and bring the GPA up, instead of redoing all? 

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1 hour ago, medreamer said:

Perfect! Thank you :) 

I just have one more question.. do they also look at the science prereqs individually? Or is it just an overall science GPA? So for example, in that case, let's say I only redo some classes that I did 'more bad' in, get a better grade, which then balance out with the other not-so-bad ones and bring the GPA up, instead of redoing all? 

You don't have to redo all if you don't want to. In the application workbook, you'll be asked to fill in the 7 courses you'd like to use as prereqs. Of course, they have to be valid (taken within the last 8 years and actually be the appropriate courses), but other than that, it's up to you whether you want to report the ones you took in CEGEP, in undergrad or independently at Dawson or Athabasca or whatever. You can also mix them up. I'm using 5 from CEGEP and 2 from my current degree. For each of the 7, they will exclusively look at the GPA of the one course that you report (so just report your best one). They'll compute a "Basic Science GPA" by averaging all 7, and that's 20% of your post-interview score. I hope that's clear!

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16 hours ago, medreamer said:

I have emailed many different people actually.. most haven't got back to me. One advisor just answered me today, saying that special students cannot take 200-level Science courses due to crowding. And, exactly! That's why I decided to write here on this forum... how is it possible that no one has previously inquired about taking courses without being admitted in an undergrad program? Also, I'm not sure exactly where I'd have to go to ask someone about this? Even when I call, I don't get a straight answer, or am transferred to someone else who tells me to call somewhere else.

Yes, it makes no sense at all! But I have a feeling that since taking Organic chem 1 (CHEM 221) at Concordia alone does not equal McGIll OG chem 1, you'd have to do both CHEM 221 and 222 to satisfy that one class.

By 'overwrite', do you mean that the old grades will replaced completely and won't appear on the transcript? Or that med admissions will only look at the second (hopefully better) grade?

Thank you for answering nonetheless:)

 

CHEM 221 at Concordia is still an introductory organic chemistry class and fulfills the requirement for org chem.

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My science prereqs have been a major issue for me in the past so I can help you with this! I'm from Concordia as well. I took EXCI 257 for the physiology requirement, CHEM 221 for the university level organic chemistry. I took these 2 courses during my undergrad. I am now taking BIOL 266 (cell bio) as an independent student and BIO1101 (Biologie Moléculaire) at université de Montréal as an independent student as well, since Concordia doesn't have a 200 level molecular biology course that is an equivalent to the BIOL 200 at McGill. If you search each of these courses in McGill's course equivalency system, they all match with the corresponding "recommended courses" at McGill. PM me if you need more details. Hope this helps

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Hi! I too felt as though I was in your position (I'm also finishing up at Concordia, and plan to apply to McGill for admission in Fall 2019). I e-mailed AdCom about the courses I have taken, and sought their feedback on substitution/exemption. What they told me (using their substitution/exemption form) is that BIOL 266 (Cell Biology) counts as the requirement for cell biology, BIOL 382 (Comparative Animal Physiology) counts as the requirement for mammalian physiology, BIOL 367 (Molecular Biology) counts as the requirement for molecular biology and CHEM 221 (Org 1) or CHEM 222 (Org 2) counts as the requirement for introductory organic chemistry, depending on if you did Org 1 in CEGEP or not. I know this is a bit of a late reply, but feel free to PM me for more details!

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