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LOC Debt > 200K

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1 hour ago, md2018plz said:

>200K as a PGY 3? Can't say that's the norm. My friend circle's debt probably isn't even 200K cumulative at graduation of med school. Personally the average I see is 20K - 50K. I think the national average is like 60K. From the residents I know (mostly family med), they pay off their debt by end of residency. 

You and I had very different friend circles.  I was in Toronto but can say the average was 150-200k, with a large number of residents at the max...

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1 hour ago, goleafsgochris said:

You and I had very different friend circles.  I was in Toronto but can say the average was 150-200k, with a large number of residents at the max...

Agreed, hard to compare my low cost of living area + school, but that's the upside of not being in Toronto. 6/17 schools have a 4 year tuition of $24K to $60K

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2 hours ago, PhD2MD said:

Curious about the support your circle of friends had? Or if they lived with their parents? I don't know many people in 2nd year med with that little debt. Could be because most people in my circle are 100% self funded?

Low tuition and good gov grants. My tuition was <$10K and my gov grants >$15K. Many of my classmates lived at home for at least part of their degree. Many people also did a 3 year undergrad and had worked before. But mostly cheap tuition

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32 minutes ago, md2018plz said:

Low tuition and good gov grants. My tuition was <$10K and my gov grants >$15K. Many of my classmates lived at home for at least part of their degree. Many people also did a 3 year undergrad and had worked before. But mostly cheap tuition

hah, must be nice in being in one of those Quebec schools, or other smaller schools.

I dont think the 6/17 schools metric is a fair portrayal though. You have to look at how many students attend those programs. You could say 16/17 schools have tuition <10,000, but if the 17th school has tuition >30,000 and trains 80% of the students...then that paints a different picture.

If you are self-funded, and attend one of other 11/17 schools, it is not unreasonable at all to have 120-150k on just tuition + rent + food and be living frugally, by graduation day.  I'm not including any debt from prior degrees either. 

I'm amazed that you get 15k/year in government grants. That is nowhere close to being the norm in my province, nor the adjacent provinces.  It is amazing, that with a low tuition and low cost of living, that you are getting 15K in grants.  It's actually nonsensical and now i'm irrationally jealous hah.  Short term pain of loans, for long term physician compensation and all that.

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2 hours ago, md2018plz said:

6/17 schools tuition have 4 year tuition between $24K and $60K

Sure  - which is about 1/3 of the schools. On the higher end you still need some form of support to not leave 100K or so in debit, and then that assumes no undergraduate debit either (which is also possible etc). 

Point I guess it that isn't the norm ha , but if it does apply to you then consider yourself relatively blessed :)

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5 hours ago, JohnGrisham said:

I dont think the 6/17 schools metric is a fair portrayal though. You have to look at how many students attend those programs. You could say 16/17 schools have tuition <10,000, but if the 17th school has tuition >30,000 and trains 80% of the students...then that paints a different picture.
 

Fair enough. I could also use your metric though. Out of the 2815 medical students per class in Canada, 1456 or 52% pay less than $15,000 tuition per year. Don't know about you but I'd call that a significant number most med students. It's a big misunderstanding that med school is expensive as a whole. It's just in Ontario, or less than half of students.

As for the grants, I'll admit I feel very lucky to have received that. Outside Ontario grants are much easier to come by. Plus they have 0% interest after I graduate.

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Can you guys stop feeding the troll? He lived at home his entire training and was likely surrounded by other similarly privileged kids. Stick to the facts, which says the average debt is 160k

 

https://www.doctorsofbc.ca/news/facts-cost-becoming-doctor

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On 4/20/2018 at 1:35 PM, JohnGrisham said:

hah, must be nice in being in one of those Quebec schools, or other smaller schools.

I dont think the 6/17 schools metric is a fair portrayal though. You have to look at how many students attend those programs. You could say 16/17 schools have tuition <10,000, but if the 17th school has tuition >30,000 and trains 80% of the students...then that paints a different picture.

If you are self-funded, and attend one of other 11/17 schools, it is not unreasonable at all to have 120-150k on just tuition + rent + food and be living frugally, by graduation day.  I'm not including any debt from prior degrees either. 

I'm amazed that you get 15k/year in government grants. That is nowhere close to being the norm in my province, nor the adjacent provinces.  It is amazing, that with a low tuition and low cost of living, that you are getting 15K in grants.  It's actually nonsensical and now i'm irrationally jealous hah.  Short term pain of loans, for long term physician compensation and all that.

I second about the Quebec low tuition, the clerkship costs about 8000 per year, which is the maximum.

I paid around 4000-5000$ for pre-clerkship tuition, and receive around 12 000$ Quebec governmental bursaries and loans, as I had no parental support and my parents were low-income earners; so it automatically qualified for the maximum amount of bursary (around 8000 annually). 

The cost of living in Quebec is very low, had a 1-bedroom apartment and paid 600$ monthly, and food around 300$. I lived very frugally in medical school, worked hard for scholarships and worked part-time in research throughout and full-time in research in summer, I did not travel and spent most of my time studying.

I did not take a LOC during medical school, which I deeply regret, now the banks would refuse to give me 300 k LOC during residency given I have a salary and bare minimal amount of debt (was thinking using it as down payment for a house). Looking back, I spent most of my time studying in medical school, did not have that much fun. The wise and healthy decision would have been to take a LOC, and enjoyed my youth a bit more :) 

I finished medical school with < 12 000 in debt, I am very blessed to go to medical school in Quebec. I highly advocate for the rest of Canada, especially Ontario to lower their medical school tuition, especially given now M.D degree does not guarantee your a residency position, so many Ontario medical students go unmatched despite applying everywhere in second iteration. 

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10 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

I did not take a LOC during medical school, which I deeply regret, now the banks would refuse to give me 300 k LOC during residency given I have a salary and bare minimal amount of debt (was thinking using it as down payment for a house). Looking back, I spent most of my time studying in medical school, did not have that much fun. The wise and healthy decision would have been to take a LOC, and enjoyed my youth a bit more :) 

you can't get a LOC during residency if you didn't apply for one in medical school?? Is it too late to apply during the last few months of medical school? lol

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20 minutes ago, F508 said:

you can't get a LOC during residency if you didn't apply for one in medical school?? Is it too late to apply during the last few months of medical school? lol

I would start now in your shoes, go with RBC, Scotiabank and start to negotiate!

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26 minutes ago, F508 said:

you can't get a LOC during residency if you didn't apply for one in medical school?? Is it too late to apply during the last few months of medical school? lol

I'm not so sure, maybe its a province specific thing? A graduating peer of mine just got their LOC with a few weeks to go left of their MD.  

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I called a health care specialist at a bank, they told me it's still possible to apply for a LOC during residency. It depends on how long your residency is and on your budget. For a two year residency, they said it would be around 100K. My friends got 250K at beginning of med school... regrets not applying earlier

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12 minutes ago, F508 said:

I called a health care specialist at a bank, they told me it's still possible to apply for a LOC during residency. It depends on how long your residency is and on your budget. For a two year residency, they said it would be around 100K. My friends got 250K at beginning of med school... regrets not applying earlier

Keep asking around banks, the individual i mentioned in the post got the exact same LOC as everyone else, with the full amount(275k). 

 

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25 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

Keep asking around banks, the individual i mentioned in the post got the exact same LOC as everyone else, with the full amount(275k). 

 

Wow no way, ok thanks!

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6 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

yeah you have to push your competitive advantage there - I know a lot of people that has got it after the fact. 

 

Exactly, i mean, why wouldnt they want a resident wracking up a LOC and paying them interest? They know they will 99% of the time be good for it and pay it back in full..so why not collect interest from them.. free money after all.

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2 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

Exactly, i mean, why wouldnt they want a resident wracking up a LOC and paying them interest? They know they will 99% of the time be good for it and pay it back in full..so why not collect interest from them.. free money after all.

They don't care about the interest :) I mean they could just as easily given someone else a mortgage at probably a higher rate. 

They do care about locking you in for the investment and insurance services long term - I only mention that because that is the source of why they want you. 

 

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1 hour ago, F508 said:

I called a health care specialist at a bank, they told me it's still possible to apply for a LOC during residency. It depends on how long your residency is and on your budget. For a two year residency, they said it would be around 100K. My friends got 250K at beginning of med school... regrets not applying earlier

that's what I got for my residency LOC with RBC, 100 k for 2 year residency. Perhaps I could have pushed more for the full 275 k amount.

Looking back, definitely apply LOC early in medical school, or be a great negotiator and shop around! :) A LOC is always handy even you might not need it at the moment. 

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14 minutes ago, LittleDaisy said:

that's what I got for my residency LOC with RBC, 100 k for 2 year residency. Perhaps I could have pushed more for the full 275 k amount.

Looking back, definitely apply LOC early in medical school, or be a great negotiator and shop around! :) A LOC is always handy even you might not need it at the moment. 

Still could if you want to - if you haven't needed it yet though there probably isn't much point. It isn't like you keep the 275 LOC for life etc :)

 

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On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 9:52 AM, Aconitase said:

I owed about 30k at then of med school that I paid off during residency. But I lived at home for med school and residency and my parents helped me out 

A rare set of circumstances for a large portion of medical students and residents...but still, good for you :)

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