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GrouchoMarx

There's a shortage of pathologists, they said...

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is that a site they post most of the jobs on for that? 

Tried my field and there is only about 10 entries for that as well. I got more postings about jobs from my program in the past month than that. 

I honestly don't know what the job market is for path? You certainly are implying it is not great at all!

 

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It's bad. As you can see there are maybe six positions in pathology in all of ontario.

some of them require some specific fellowship(s) or experience level.

is there a lot of outcry about a shortage of radiologists? i recall medical school experiences where pathology was mentioned as an 'in demand' specialty ad nauseam. 

the only fields outside of the lab that seem to have employment problems based on that website are vasc surgery, rad onc, nuc med, cardiac and neurosx. but nobody said anything about a shortage of any of those docs either.

i was inspired to post this because i recently met a medical student who was interested in path and was told by some of the fmg staff that job opportunities are abundant. maybe ten years ago, but there have been no new hires here or anywhere nearby for years, and i do know a few young underemployed pathologists that i met at conferences. checking the job postings in each of the provinces yields the same result. and lord help you if you want to live in a decent city. pathology is a good field for farmers. i had to set it to this student straight.

 

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There are additional positions posted on the Canadian Association of Pathologists website and on health region websites, especially for other provinces. There are also lots of positions which are not widely advertised especially if they already have internal applicants they want to hire. 

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52 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

is that a site they post most of the jobs on for that? 

Tried my field and there is only about 10 entries for that as well. I got more postings about jobs from my program in the past month than that. 

I honestly don't know what the job market is for path? You certainly are implying it is not great at all!

 

Job postings are scattered around. But as iostream says the CAP-ACP provides one of the more comprehensive and up-to-date snapshots for Canadian path. Also agree that word-of-mouth is important, as often positions are not widely advertised.

Edited by liszt

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I assume that all specialties have jobs that are obtained through word of mouth.

When it's the primary way of finding work, that means places don't have too look very hard to find a worker.

The job market cannot accommodate the number of pathologists being made. As pathologists are entirely dependent on the government, and the government is over budget, don't expect positions to expand, and don't expect to find a job where you want to be, if you find one at all.

IMO its not a good time to pick pathology

 

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10 minutes ago, GrouchoMarx said:

I assume that all specialties have jobs that are obtained through word of mouth.

When it's the primary way of finding work, that means places don't have too look very hard to find a worker.

The job market cannot accommodate the number of pathologists being made. As pathologists are entirely dependent on the government, and the government is over budget, don't expect positions to expand, and don't expect to find a job where you want to be, if you find one at all.

IMO its not a good time to pick pathology

 

Problem is with almost any specialty, predicting the future isn’t easy.  Still, a bad job market would take likely more than 5 years to resolve.

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That website seems suspect to me. For example, searching orthopaedics yields 3 full time positions in Ontario (which is higher than I expected) including this gem at SickKids: 

 

https://hfojobs.healthforceontario.ca/en/posting/38569/

 

Note they say “$200,000 - $470,000  for 40 hours work per week”

 

I’ve never seen an academic ortho job posting (period lol), let alone with a set hourly contract, let alone just 40 hrs!

 

Either the ortho weekly hour commitment and job availability has drastically changed, or it’s a very targeted advertisement to someone they already have in mind I guess - maybe the 40hr posting is just to “protect” the applicants other 20-30 hrs of their time to teach or do research?

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3 hours ago, ZBL said:

That website seems suspect to me. For example, searching orthopaedics yields 3 full time positions in Ontario (which is higher than I expected) including this gem at SickKids: 

 

https://hfojobs.healthforceontario.ca/en/posting/38569/

 

Note they say “$200,000 - $470,000  for 40 hours work per week”

 

I’ve never seen an academic ortho job posting (period lol), let alone with a set hourly contract, let alone just 40 hrs!

 

Either the ortho weekly hour commitment and job availability has drastically changed, or it’s a very targeted advertisement to someone they already have in mind I guess - maybe the 40hr posting is just to “protect” the applicants other 20-30 hrs of their time to teach or do research?

all things being considered, the number of postings per specialty is probably a reasonable facsimile of the available jobs throughout the province. few postings here = few postings in general. 

 

ortho is underemployed. theres no secret there. the problem is that path is always talked about as being 'in shortage' yet there are few job postings. the country puts out thirty to forty lab med residents each year into the workforce, and i dont see that many positions being offered at any one time nationwide.

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1 hour ago, GrouchoMarx said:

all things being considered, the number of postings per specialty is probably a reasonable facsimile of the available jobs throughout the province. few postings here = few postings in general. 

 

ortho is underemployed. theres no secret there. the problem is that path is always talked about as being 'in shortage' yet there are few job postings. the country puts out thirty to forty lab med residents each year into the workforce, and i dont see that many positions being offered at any one time nationwide.

Are you still a resident?  If so the one advantage you will have even in a tough path job market is if you are a CMG and seem normal/have good English and social skills etc, you may stand out among the average path resident in terms of jobs.  Possible silver lining?  I do feel bad for your situation though, residency was terrible especially near the end with the exam, its hard to imagine the added stress of intense job competition

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The job market isn't great in Pathology, but isn't horrific either. My understanding is that there are 'rural' pathology jobs (i.e. not desirable locations) available straight out of residency, with fellowship training (or two) necessary for academic/desirable cities. I have not met a single person who said the pathology job market is good in 4 years of medical school or 3 years of residency.

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3 hours ago, mavrik13 said:

The job market isn't great in Pathology, but isn't horrific either. My understanding is that there are 'rural' pathology jobs (i.e. not desirable locations) available straight out of residency, with fellowship training (or two) necessary for academic/desirable cities. I have not met a single person who said the pathology job market is good in 4 years of medical school or 3 years of residency.

the only place that a pathologist can get a job out of residency with the base training is the middle of nowhere. like i said, a good field for farmers. not a good field if you want your kids to go to a decent school.

yet we expand spots. uoft added one last year. i dont know what the other schools did. probably further expansion.

residency programs are utilized to get government funding for basic research labs, which pathology departments are always mixed up with. That's why its called 'laboratory medicine': the medicine gets the money from the government and gives it to the laboratory.

its soured me on medical education because i see the marginal pathology residents recruited by programs that want to keep the government funding for this, rather than let the spot stay empty. so it ruins the job market, it further ruins our reputation, and for what? a few grand to put toward bench researchers? a promotion to associate professorship? its pathetic and short sighted. our RC exam has a 75% pass rate for IMGs, and the GP one is something like 50% pass because it's almost 100% IMGs who take it. that last one isnt published because so few residents take it, but its still an unacceptable pass rate which reflects our poor recruitment standards.

then theres the american pathologists coming up from the usa, which has a worse job market we do.

it is not a good time to be going into pathology if you have other options. 

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Hmmm yes more and more jobs in path ask for 1-2 year fellowship training now but as far as I know, all CMG with fellowship got job pretty easily. Check CAP-ACP and OAP (for Ontario jobs) websites as well as pathology outline website for job postings but keep your ears open during training is key.

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