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jtown

Pre-requisite science GPA, post interview- IP

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I have been searching daily in the forum about the pre-requisite science GPA for IP. I have a 3.61 and wanted to know if that is competitive for the post-interview. Also, how true is this quote from their site " Successful applicants tend to have a basic science prerequisite GPA (PrereqGPA) above 3.4 (average approximately 3.8), or an MCAT equal to or greater than 30 (average approximately 33). Applicants with a PrereqGPA below 3.0 or with an MCAT below 27 are rarely considered." I understand it says above 3.4- does anyone know someone that has gotten into mcgill recently with a gpa above 3.4 and less than 3.6?

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That quote is a bit outdated. The bar to get into medicine was slightly lower back then. During the info session for re-applicants, I believe it was said that 1/3 of the people who were accepted had 3.77 or below. Alternatively, that means 2/3 had above 3.77. The science GPA is worth 20% post-interview. It's possible to get in with 3.6, so long as you score in the top ~15% for the MMI since they take the top 25% (79/300).

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3 hours ago, ChosenDestiny said:

That quote is a bit outdated. The bar to get into medicine was slightly lower back then. During the info session for re-applicants, I believe it was said that 1/3 of the people who were accepted had 3.77 or below. Alternatively, that means 2/3 had above 3.77. The science GPA is worth 20% post-interview. It's possible to get in with 3.6, so long as you score in the top ~15% for the MMI since they take the top 25% (79/300).

That's not correct. The average science GPA of those who were accepted was 3.77. However, most of the applicants (2/3) had above this. So it's pretty fair to say that the average of the pre-req of the applicants taking the interviews is higher than this.
This also means that, last year, those who did especially well on the stations were not those with the highest pre-req GPA. This is corroborated by my own ranking from last year (I'm a reapplicant). Despite having a worse ranking in the pre-req than in the stations, my overall ranking was better than either my stations ranking or my pre-req ranking. 

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5 hours ago, SMT said:

That's not correct. The average science GPA of those who were accepted was 3.77. However, most of the applicants (2/3) had above this. So it's pretty fair to say that the average of the pre-req of the applicants taking the interviews is higher than this.
 

I am not understanding what you are trying to correct. Your first paragraph means the same thing as what you underlined from my paragraph o.o

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The slides didn't say that 1/3 of those who were accepted had a pre-req GPA of 3.77. It says that the mean of those accepted was 3.77 and, furthermore, that most (2/3) applicants invited for interviews (which are, of course, distinct from those who were ultimately accepted) had a higher pre-req GPA than 3.77. 

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29 minutes ago, SMT said:

The slides didn't say that 1/3 of those who were accepted had a pre-req GPA of 3.77. It says that the mean of those accepted was 3.77 and, furthermore, that most (2/3) applicants invited for interviews (which are, of course, distinct from those who were ultimately accepted) had a higher pre-req GPA than 3.77. 

Ahh I just checked the slides again. You are totally right.

Well that's depressing to know... 

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4 hours ago, SunAndMoon said:

There's really no need to freak out if your pre-req GPA is in that range (higher than B+ or right on it). Your interview will be the determining factor, as SMT has essentially said. 

Even if you have a 3.0 prereq GPA (the equivalent of a B), if you ace the MMI, as in getting a near perfect score, you are probably gucci too.

It's hard, but absolutely possible.

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I have been following the discussion and no matter what the statistical outcomes may be, one thought stays in my mind :

The faculty had access to the pre-req scores of almost all candidates (except those with pending ones). 
Therefore, I doubt they would interview someone if they knew that their pre-reqs score would absolutely prevent them from an admission.
Of course, a high pre-req GPA is a nice safety while a low one adds uncertainty.
I think it's better to stop worrying because really, we are all in the same boat.
I mean, how many people with a 4.0 and strong CV were rejected pre-interview?

Good luck to all !:)

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16 minutes ago, la marzocco said:

There you go

Thank you.

 

Also, does anyone know what they mean by "(Note that these formulas are guidelines only and are subject to review and change by the Admissions Committee at any time)" regarding the 20% and 80% formula post interview? Does this mean that the 20% and 80% is a range when they are looking for an applicant and it is not necessarily those specific weighting? Also, if they were to change the formula would it be per person or everyone in the pool?

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8 minutes ago, jtown said:

Thank you.

 

Also, does anyone know what they mean by "(Note that these formulas are guidelines only and are subject to review and change by the Admissions Committee at any time)" regarding the 20% and 80% formula post interview? Does this mean that the 20% and 80% is a range when they are looking for an applicant and it is not necessarily those specific weighting? Also, if they were to change the formula would it be per person or everyone in the pool?

They say this about every part of the selection process. It just means that they can totally change it up right now if they want to and you shouldn't start a riot if they do. But it's been this way for years so I wouldn't expect it to change all of a sudden now. If they do change the formula, I would assume the change to be the same for everyone to ensure fairness.

Don't dwell too much on the formula. Even though the 80-20 split makes it look as though the prereq GPA barely even matters, it really depends on how exactly they're computing these scores in the first place. If the difference between a 3.5 and a 4.0 is 5 points on the 20-point scale, while the standard deviation of interview performances is only 4 points on the 80-point scale, then the prereq GPA is going to make a massive difference. We just don't know. At this point, trust that you have a chance no matter what your prereq is, and try to improve it in the future if you don't get in this year. Good luck!

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18 hours ago, HoopDreams said:

I have been following the discussion and no matter what the statistical outcomes may be, one thought stays in my mind :

The faculty had access to the pre-req scores of almost all candidates (except those with pending ones). 
Therefore, I doubt they would interview someone if they knew that their pre-reqs score would absolutely prevent them from an admission.
Of course, a high pre-req GPA is a nice safety while a low one adds uncertainty.
I think it's better to stop worrying because really, we are all in the same boat.
I mean, how many people with a 4.0 and strong CV were rejected pre-interview?

Good luck to all !:)

pre reqs need to be completed prior to the Jan 15th deadline as per their instructions, but the relative strength of your pre req score does not affect whether you will be granted an interview. Interview invites are granted despite having a really low pre req GPA -(70% Basis of Admission Degree GPA, 30% Non academic CVMD + Casper). 

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On 2/27/2018 at 11:06 PM, HoopDreams said:

I have been following the discussion and no matter what the statistical outcomes may be, one thought stays in my mind :

The faculty had access to the pre-req scores of almost all candidates (except those with pending ones). 
Therefore, I doubt they would interview someone if they knew that their pre-reqs score would absolutely prevent them from an admission.
Of course, a high pre-req GPA is a nice safety while a low one adds uncertainty.
I think it's better to stop worrying because really, we are all in the same boat.
I mean, how many people with a 4.0 and strong CV were rejected pre-interview?

Good luck to all !:)

 

16 hours ago, dreamteam22 said:

pre reqs need to be completed prior to the Jan 15th deadline as per their instructions, but the relative strength of your pre req score does not affect whether you will be granted an interview. Interview invites are granted despite having a really low pre req GPA -(70% Basis of Admission Degree GPA, 30% Non academic CVMD + Casper). 

I have to agree that it hardly makes sense that they would interview a candidate if they knew they had a prereq science GPA that was far far below what could be admitted. Would they not make sure to not interview people for which this may be the case, and instead save the interview spot for someone who would have more of a chance with their science prereq GPA?

What are your thoughts on whether they may skip the 80-20 weighing if they feel a candidate's prereqs GPA is old or not representative of the rest of their application?

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9 minutes ago, medvet_montreal said:

 

I have to agree that it hardly makes sense that they would interview a candidate if they knew they had a prereq science GPA that was far far below what could be admitted. Would they not make sure to not interview people for which this may be the case, and instead save the interview spot for someone who would have more of a chance with their science prereq GPA?

What are your thoughts on whether they may skip the 80-20 weighing if they feel a candidate's prereqs GPA is old or not representative of the rest of their application?

I see what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing with you on the logic. I wished it was like that too. However, they do not assess pre req ranking prior to offering an invite. They will not skip the 80/20 based on a holistic assessment on every applicant- that would require more manpower and might be harder to be more objective in the analysis of files post-interview.

They take pre reqs into account post-interview because they want to ensure candidates have a solid basic science background prior to the start of the program. If you felt that you had medical or personal difficulties that affected your pre req performance, you may claim extenuating circumstances when you apply to the MDCM or its joint programs in September. If they deem that you have enough evidence to corroborate your personal statement, they may adjust that 80/20 weight at their discretion but they won't be able to tell you if and how they adjusted it.

Having said that, the weight is still 80/20 so focusing on an excellent MMI performance is a good start, and if you feel like you're extremely low in pre reqs (<3.3/3.2 --> This is an assumption based on anecdotal experience)  then maybe consider retaking pre reqs. 

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1 hour ago, la marzocco said:

Don't forget one can also complete the recommended list of courses under Option #2. In that case, the higher of the two averages will be taken as the "pre-req science GPA"

This. I was worried about my prereq GPA (3.6) and even hoped that maybe my MCAT might offset it. Then while reading their website on the basic science prerequisites, I realized they would take my recommended courses instead (4.0 GPA). They shouldnt even use my MCAT scores in this case as they say they will only do so if it increases my conpetitiveness. Some of you might be in the same situation!

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3 minutes ago, MD.VA said:

This. I was worried about my prereq GPA (3.6) and even hoped that maybe my MCAT might offset it. Then while reading their website on the basic science prerequisites, I realized they would take my recommended courses instead (4.0 GPA). They shouldnt even use my MCAT scores in this case as they say they will only do so if it increases my conpetitiveness. Some of you might be in the same situation!

I wonder how the equate the 2, and deem when the MCAT helps your case. For example I have a 3.93 recommended courses and 518 on my MCAT, does this help or not. Additionally will it even matter much when its worth only 20%? 

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1 hour ago, mia1234 said:

I wonder how the equate the 2, and deem when the MCAT helps your case. For example I have a 3.93 recommended courses and 518 on my MCAT, does this help or not. Additionally will it even matter much when its worth only 20%? 

This is just speculation, but I assume they turn your MMI performance, prereq GPA, and MCAT into a score (sorta like z-scores). If your GPA score is higher than MCAT, they keep it at 20%. If your MCAT score is higher than that of your GPA, they make each worth 10%. How exactly they assign the scores, I'm not sure. So we may never know if 518 on MCAT is better than 3.93. But I'm sure whatever system they use should benefit your post-interview ranking either way.

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On 3/1/2018 at 10:13 AM, dreamteam22 said:

I see what you're saying, and I'm not disagreeing with you on the logic. I wished it was like that too. However, they do not assess pre req ranking prior to offering an invite. They will not skip the 80/20 based on a holistic assessment on every applicant- that would require more manpower and might be harder to be more objective in the analysis of files post-interview.

They take pre reqs into account post-interview because they want to ensure candidates have a solid basic science background prior to the start of the program. If you felt that you had medical or personal difficulties that affected your pre req performance, you may claim extenuating circumstances when you apply to the MDCM or its joint programs in September. If they deem that you have enough evidence to corroborate your personal statement, they may adjust that 80/20 weight at their discretion but they won't be able to tell you if and how they adjusted it.

Having said that, the weight is still 80/20 so focusing on an excellent MMI performance is a good start, and if you feel like you're extremely low in pre reqs (<3.3/3.2 --> This is an assumption based on anecdotal experience)  then maybe consider retaking pre reqs. 

Yes, that's all true - thank you!

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