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2018 CaRMS Second Iteration Interview Thread

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17 minutes ago, 2018hopeful said:

There are up to 112 unmatched prior year CMGs as well.

104ish CMG Anglo seats in the country with 332 CMGs and IMGs eating up ~40% of the seats.

We could conceivably see a sub 30% CMG match rate assuming its not mostly Quebec grads that went unmatched.  

I'm a prior year grad.....those numbers are daunting.  Wow.  I'm beginning to think a protest of some type would be in order here, as it doesn't seem to me that PGME/UGME deans or program directors are really advocating publicly for students at all.  If fact, the silence on their part is deafening.  Those numbers don't seem to me to be any type of a fair competition.  The most frustrating part of my life is trying to explain to friends and family why I'm not matched....which leads to obvious questions like "Why can't you just talk to someone" or "you should talk to your MP" or "I can't believe that....we need doctors", it really drives me nuts.

Also....here's a link to a news story from 2015 that describes how the second match may possibly be less than entirely "clean", I'm sure this story isn't the only case of this....,https://thetyee.ca/News/2015/02/06/Former-Cabinet-Minister-Wins-UBC-Residency/

Edited by Angry+Bitter+Unmatched
grammar

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I've heard a major factor in all of this is that Quebec grads are leaving their home province in record numbers because of issues with practicing in Quebec. Hence all the unfilled spots in the province. 

Anyway, I agree - some thing's gotta give. So much money is dumped into our education by tax payers, and the numbers we're seeing is just awful. I'm particularly worried about UofT, with 26 unmatched, despite having a relatively large number last year as well. When I asked around, no one seems to have a clue of what's being done within the university to address this. 

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Hi,

To 2nd round FM hopefuls - I am guessing all the interview invites that will ever come out has already come out. Is this a right guess?

Also, I am guessing SASK already sent out invites. Can anybody confirm?

 

Thanks!

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Just now, jerkey said:

Hi,

To 2nd round FM hopefuls - I am guessing all the interview invites that will ever come out has already come out. Is this a right guess?

Also, I am guessing SASK already sent out invites. Can anybody confirm?

 

Thanks!

I can't speak for SASK specifically....but yes, if you haven't gotten an invite by now it is unlikely that you will.  I hope for someone's sake, that I'm wrong.

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3 minutes ago, jerkey said:

Hi,

To 2nd round FM hopefuls - I am guessing all the interview invites that will ever come out has already come out. Is this a right guess?

Also, I am guessing SASK already sent out invites. Can anybody confirm?

 

Thanks!

Sask came out late last night for me at least

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55 minutes ago, wonka_vision said:

I've heard a major factor in all of this is that Quebec grads are leaving their home province in record numbers because of issues with practicing in Quebec. Hence all the unfilled spots in the province. 

Anyway, I agree - some thing's gotta give. So much money is dumped into our education by tax payers, and the numbers we're seeing is just awful. I'm particularly worried about UofT, with 26 unmatched, despite having a relatively large number last year as well. When I asked around, no one seems to have a clue of what's being done within the university to address this. 

I think it's kind of difficult for the university itself to make many changes, other than supporting the students who go unmatched since it seems to be a systemic issue dependent on funding. I think they're trying to help with the resources they have available to them. Like I said before, I went unmatched last year but U of T PGME ended up contacting UGME last July to inform them that they wanted to support the unmatched students at U of T and managed to collect enough funding for 1 extra residency spot. Since I had been ranked by a U of T program, they were offering me the opportunity to start residency which I ultimately accepted. It only benefited one person (and I feel indebted to them for how they helped me), but at least they're acknowledging there's a problem. It doesn't help that more residency spots have been removed this past year. I think they're trying to help address the issue, it's just difficult to figure out what the best method of doing that would be.

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34 minutes ago, Demeter said:

I think it's kind of difficult for the university itself to make many changes, other than supporting the students who go unmatched since it seems to be a systemic issue dependent on funding. I think they're trying to help with the resources they have available to them. Like I said before, I went unmatched last year but U of T PGME ended up contacting UGME last July to inform them that they wanted to support the unmatched students at U of T and managed to collect enough funding for 1 extra residency spot. Since I had been ranked by a U of T program, they were offering me the opportunity to start residency which I ultimately accepted. It only benefited one person (and I feel indebted to them for how they helped me), but at least they're acknowledging there's a problem. It doesn't help that more residency spots have been removed this past year. I think they're trying to help address the issue, it's just difficult to figure out what the best method of doing that would be.

You are lucky, UofT was very good in what they did.  The issue is that beginning in 2005, at least in Ontario, they increased medical school admissions and then did not  accordingly increase funding for residency spots.  Furthermore, they have actually cut spots relative to 10 years ago.  Last year Ontario cut 50 spots alone.  This is a funding issue, pure and simple.  The government is controlling healthcare spending by controlling the number of people who dispense it, and we get caught in the middle.  As I've said before, I've not seen a Dean or PGME director anywhere in the media say boo about this....the silence is deafening.  A degree that takes on average 8 years of study and 150K++ to attain should not end up useless.  The issue is the funding of residency spots at the provincial level, but the PGME side should be better advocates for this.

 

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1 hour ago, Demeter said:

I think it's kind of difficult for the university itself to make many changes, other than supporting the students who go unmatched since it seems to be a systemic issue dependent on funding. I think they're trying to help with the resources they have available to them. Like I said before, I went unmatched last year but U of T PGME ended up contacting UGME last July to inform them that they wanted to support the unmatched students at U of T and managed to collect enough funding for 1 extra residency spot. Since I had been ranked by a U of T program, they were offering me the opportunity to start residency which I ultimately accepted. It only benefited one person (and I feel indebted to them for how they helped me), but at least they're acknowledging there's a problem. It doesn't help that more residency spots have been removed this past year. I think they're trying to help address the issue, it's just difficult to figure out what the best method of doing that would be.

Wow surprised to hear that ! I had friends unmatched to UofT last year (2017), but wasn't offered this opportunity. I guess because he & she only applied to competitive specialties in the first round and didn't back up with FM, but they matched to FM this year at their top location. So it worked out eventually.

I am happy for you! 

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3 hours ago, wonka_vision said:

I've heard a major factor in all of this is that Quebec grads are leaving their home province in record numbers because of issues with practicing in Quebec. Hence all the unfilled spots in the province. 

 

 I have to somewhat disagree. We'll have to wait for the final CaRMS' reports, but if you look at last year's data, there were only 19 CMG from French schools that matched to programs in other provinces. If you consider each school had over 200 CMGs (easily over 650 CMGs from French schools), well, that's a very very small percentage. Also, consider that from those 19 at least 2 matched to Ottawa because they're from the Ottawa/Gatineau region, then you'll get down to 17 CMGs from French schools moving to another province (IF some of those weren't actually returning home too).

If you check on the unfilled spots after round 1 in French schools, you'll notice that Montreal numbers are pretty much around the numbers they had last year. Sherbrooke had 29 (from 21 last year) and Laval had 48 (from 37 last year). I can't say anything about Sherbrooke's numbers, but I'm pretty sure very few people from other schools are aware that this year's cohort at Laval is one of the smallest (for several reasons: more people decided for a sabbatical year before clerkship, so they'll graduate next year; more people from the previous admission cycle decided to do their MD in 4 years instead of 5, so there were fewer med students from that cycle graduating this year, and other reasons). Historically, people from Laval tend to match to Laval's programs. Add those variables and you could easily predict there were gonna be more unfilled spots this year (and this probably could explain some of Sherbrooke's numbers too).

I won't talk about McGill's number because they represent a very different reality (way more OOP get into McGill's MD program, people from McGill prefer to match to other English-speaking programs than matching to a French-speaking position, etc), but they went from 14 unfilled spots last year to 11 this year. If there were a number that, IMO, could corroborate what you said, it would be McGill's. And it doesn't seem to go in that direction...

So, in the end, I'm quite skeptical regarding the argument that "QC's grads are leaving their home province in record numbers" could be used to explain the unfilled spots in the province. If the final report shows something in that direction, then I'll change my mind. But not for now.  

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49 minutes ago, MDLaval said:

 I have to somewhat disagree. We'll have to wait for the final CaRMS' reports, but if you look at last year's data, there were only 19 CMG from French schools that matched to programs in other provinces. If you consider each school had over 200 CMGs (easily over 650 CMGs from French schools), well, that's a very very small percentage. Also, consider that from those 19 at least 2 matched to Ottawa because they're from the Ottawa/Gatineau region, then you'll get down to 17 CMGs from French schools moving to another province (IF some of those weren't actually returning home too).

If you check on the unfilled spots after round 1 in French schools, you'll notice that Montreal numbers are pretty much around the numbers they had last year. Sherbrooke had 29 (from 21 last year) and Laval had 48 (from 37 last year). I can't say anything about Sherbrooke's numbers, but I'm pretty sure very few people from other schools are aware that this year's cohort at Laval is one of the smallest (for several reasons: more people decided for a sabbatical year before clerkship, so they'll graduate next year; more people from the previous admission cycle decided to do their MD in 4 years instead of 5, so there were fewer med students from that cycle graduating this year, and other reasons). Historically, people from Laval tend to match to Laval's programs. Add those variables and you could easily predict there were gonna be more unfilled spots this year (and this probably could explain some of Sherbrooke's numbers too).

I won't talk about McGill's number because they represent a very different reality (way more OOP get into McGill's MD program, people from McGill prefer to match to other English-speaking programs than matching to a French-speaking position, etc), but they went from 14 unfilled spots last year to 11 this year. If there were a number that, IMO, could corroborate what you said, it would be McGill's. And it doesn't seem to go in that direction...

So, in the end, I'm quite skeptical regarding the argument that "QC's grads are leaving their home province in record numbers" could be used to explain the unfilled spots in the province. If the final report shows something in that direction, then I'll change my mind. But not for now.  

there are usually a lot of extra spots there - I think it is a part of their overall policy (although that is speculation). Seems to make it possible for anyone who wants to be there having a very high chance of getting something there (even if it involves the second round of things). 

There are a lot of clear factors contributing to the match issues - it is going to be multi factorial in the end, but still with clear policies leading to the predictable outcome. There is going to have to be a push back for something to change.

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On 2018-03-15 at 7:03 PM, MDLaval said:

So, in the end, I'm quite skeptical regarding the argument that "QC's grads are leaving their home province in record numbers" could be used to explain the unfilled spots in the province. If the final report shows something in that direction, then I'll change my mind. But not for now.  

I found this table put out by the AFMC useful: 

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23 hours ago, wonka_vision said:

I've heard a major factor in all of this is that Quebec grads are leaving their home province in record numbers because of issues with practicing in Quebec. Hence all the unfilled spots in the province. 

There's typically about the same number of USMGs as graduates from French-speaking faculties matching into English-speaking programs (excluding McGill which is essentially bilingual) - around twenty or so.  

The difference this year is the 68 unmatched graduates from last year.  The year before it was 46 and in 2015 39 (source slide 45).  They were mostly non-QC CMGs.     

In simple person's math - there were 220 unmatched CMGs with nominally 228 spots.  Last year there were 32 prior year graduates that matched in the second round with 53 IMGs also matching (source p. 45 - below).  Even assuming that IMG number goes down to 40~ish, there's still going to unfortunately a lot of backlog - it will probably be offset by the increased number of prior year CMGs.

 Something else that could have happened there were fewer IMG spots being carried over, which could effect the final CMG matching rate.

18 hours ago, la marzocco said:

I found this table put out by the AFMC useful: 

5aab0e6a8b31f_ScreenShot2018-03-15at8_21_22PM.png.ee61b351733e1913351ff9d2832cc39c.png

It's a good graphic - but there's a strong distinction between McGill + other QC faculties.  Basically there's not that many people that go from French to English and vice versa (McGill exception).  Most of the matching outside of QC is McGill (which is just like other anglo faculties in that respect).      

Edit:

AFMC.jpg

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Anatomical Pathology: McMaster
Anesthesiology:
Dermatology: Ottawa
Diagnostic Radiology: Sherbrooke, Sask, Laval

Family Medicine: Dalhousie, Memorial, Laval, Ottawa (retracted some sent interviews that were in error), McGill Gatineau/Montreal, Western, Alberta, Calgary, McMaster, Manitoba, Sask

General Pathology: U of Calgary, McMaster
Hematological Pathology: Dalhousie 

Internal Medicine: Alberta, Sask, NOSM, Memorial, UBC 
Medical Genetics:
Medical Microbiology: U of Alberta

Nuclear Medicine:
Neurology:
Neurology - Pediatric: Calgary
Neuropathology: UBC, Calgary
PM&R:
Psychiatry: UBC, Manitoba, Memorial, Saskatchewan

Public Health and preventive medicine: Calgary
Public Health and preventive medicine including FM: Calgary, McMaster

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12 hours ago, marrakech said:

 It's a good graphic - but there's a strong distinction between McGill + other QC faculties.  Basically there's not that many people that go from French to English and vice versa (McGill exception).  Most of the matching outside of QC is McGill (which is just like other anglo faculties in that respect).      

3

Agreed! That's why I went through the number to find out that from those 96, in reality, there were only 19 graduates from French schools that matched to another province last year. 

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Anatomical Pathology: McMaster
Anesthesiology:
Dermatology: Ottawa
Diagnostic Radiology: Sherbrooke, Sask, Laval, Manitoba

Family Medicine: Dalhousie, Memorial, Laval, Ottawa (retracted some sent interviews that were in error), McGill Gatineau/Montreal, Western, Alberta, Calgary, McMaster, Manitoba, Sask,  Montreal trois-riviers

General Pathology: U of Calgary, McMaster
Hematological Pathology: Dalhousie 

Internal Medicine: Alberta, Sask, NOSM, Memorial, UBC 
Medical Genetics:
Medical Microbiology: U of Alberta

Nuclear Medicine:
Neurology:
Neurology - Pediatric: Calgary
Neuropathology: UBC, Calgary
PM&R:
Psychiatry: UBC, Manitoba, Memorial, Saskatchewan

Public Health and preventive medicine: Calgary
Public Health and preventive medicine including FM: Calgary, McMaster

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18 hours ago, MDLaval said:

 I have to somewhat disagree. We'll have to wait for the final CaRMS' reports, but if you look at last year's data, there were only 19 CMG from French schools that matched to programs in other provinces. If you consider each school had over 200 CMGs (easily over 650 CMGs from French schools), well, that's a very very small percentage. Also, consider that from those 19 at least 2 matched to Ottawa because they're from the Ottawa/Gatineau region, then you'll get down to 17 CMGs from French schools moving to another province (IF some of those weren't actually returning home too).

If you check on the unfilled spots after round 1 in French schools, you'll notice that Montreal numbers are pretty much around the numbers they had last year. Sherbrooke had 29 (from 21 last year) and Laval had 48 (from 37 last year). I can't say anything about Sherbrooke's numbers, but I'm pretty sure very few people from other schools are aware that this year's cohort at Laval is one of the smallest (for several reasons: more people decided for a sabbatical year before clerkship, so they'll graduate next year; more people from the previous admission cycle decided to do their MD in 4 years instead of 5, so there were fewer med students from that cycle graduating this year, and other reasons). Historically, people from Laval tend to match to Laval's programs. Add those variables and you could easily predict there were gonna be more unfilled spots this year (and this probably could explain some of Sherbrooke's numbers too).

I won't talk about McGill's number because they represent a very different reality (way more OOP get into McGill's MD program, people from McGill prefer to match to other English-speaking programs than matching to a French-speaking position, etc), but they went from 14 unfilled spots last year to 11 this year. If there were a number that, IMO, could corroborate what you said, it would be McGill's. And it doesn't seem to go in that direction...

So, in the end, I'm quite skeptical regarding the argument that "QC's grads are leaving their home province in record numbers" could be used to explain the unfilled spots in the province. If the final report shows something in that direction, then I'll change my mind. But not for now.  

There's also the fact that Sherbrooke has a 32 student cohort in Moncton which are considered Sherbrooke graduates but are actually from New-Brunswick and therefore more likely to apply to Memorial and the rest of Canada. I believe they are considered to be doing their residency at Sherbrooke if they match to a spot in Moncton though. As such, they would then be considered to be Quebec graduates matching in Quebec.

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Anatomical Pathology: McMaster
Anesthesiology:
Dermatology: Ottawa
Diagnostic Radiology: Sherbrooke, Sask, Laval, Manitoba

Family Medicine: Dalhousie, Memorial, Laval, Ottawa (retracted some sent interviews that were in error), McGill Gatineau/Montreal, Western, Alberta, Calgary, McMaster, Manitoba, Sask,  Montreal trois-riviers, 

General Pathology: U of Calgary, McMaster
Hematological Pathology: Dalhousie 

Internal Medicine: Alberta, Sask, NOSM, Memorial, UBC 
Medical Genetics:
Medical Microbiology: U of Alberta

Nuclear Medicine:
Neurology: Memorial
Neurology - Pediatric: Calgary
Neuropathology: UBC, Calgary
PM&R:
Psychiatry: UBC, Manitoba, Memorial, Saskatchewan

Public Health and preventive medicine: Calgary
Public Health and preventive medicine including FM: Calgary, McMaster

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41 minutes ago, Snowmen said:

There's also the fact that Sherbrooke has a 32 student cohort in Moncton which are considered Sherbrooke graduates but are actually from New-Brunswick and therefore more likely to apply to Memorial and the rest of Canada. I believe they are considered to be doing their residency at Sherbrooke if they match to a spot in Moncton though. As such, they would then be considered to be Quebec graduates matching in Quebec.

Yes, they're like QC graduates matching in QC if matching to a position outside of Quebec but attached to one of QC's schools. But I think they're more likely than the graduates from other French schools/sites to apply and actually match to Dalhousie since this school has some residency positions based in NB (FM in Moncton, Fredericton, Saint John). Besides, NS is just around the corner if you're from NB. 

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44 minutes ago, MDLaval said:

Yes, they're like QC graduates matching in QC if matching to a position outside of Quebec but attached to one of QC's schools. But I think they're more likely than the graduates from other French schools/sites to apply and actually match to Dalhousie since this school has some residency positions based in NB (FM in Moncton, Fredericton, Saint John). Besides, NS is just around the corner if you're from NB. 

Dalhousie. That's the one I was looking for. Anyway, I think we share the same view: they skew the number of QC graduates matching outside of QC.

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