Jump to content
Premed 101 Forums
extendablelungs

Neurosurgery vs Peds General Surgery vs Orthopedics Lifestyle

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, PhD2MD said:

Neurology. My break down is:


Undergrad - 4 years - done
PhD - 5 years - done
MD - 3 years - 2/3 done
Residency - 5 years
Fellow ship - 2 years
Total = 19....oh God, I didn't realize how bad it was until I wrote this post. I think I was in denial haha.

on the bright side, you did short cut your PhD + MD a little! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, kirraea said:

guess i'm sending in that mdphd application again next year hah

If you're interested in  doing a Phd, it is much better to do it during residency than during med school. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will get more $ for doing it during residency and it will be more specific to your speciality allowing you to be an expert in the topic of your choice :)

2 minutes ago, extendablelungs said:

can you please elaborate? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, count123 said:

You will get more $ for doing it during residency and it will be more specific to your speciality allowing you to be an expert in the topic of your choice :)

 

does it end up being compressed as well? (i.e. not as long)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, count123 said:

If you're interested in  doing a Phd, it is much better to do it during residency than during med school. 

 

7 minutes ago, extendablelungs said:

can you please elaborate? 

Benefits of doing it residency:
1. Shorter (often 3 years instead of 5 years)
2. Cheaper (much better compensation during residency than outside of it)
3. More likely to be useful in your practice
4. More likely yo directly benefit your career path

Con: I've heard, but I have no idea if it's true, that residency-PhDs usually aren't as intensive/rigorous as a pure PhD. I'm sure that's highly variable though, because I know some who probably want to be researchers more than physicians, who did really excellent work in their residency PhD...so take that with a huge grain of salt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, PhD2MD said:

 

Benefits of doing it residency:
1. Shorter (often 3 years instead of 5 years)
2. More likely to be useful in your practice
3. More likely yo directly benefit your career path

Cons: I've heard, but I have no idea if it's true, that residency-PhDs usually aren't as intensive/rigorous as a pure PhD. I'm sure that's highly variable though, because I know some who probably want to be researchers more than physicians, who did really excellent work in their residency PhD...so take that with a huge grain of salt.

3 year fellowship(s) vs 3 year PhD - which would add more market value to a budding surgeon? or perhaps it would vary by specialty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PhD2MD said:

Cons: I've heard, but I have no idea if it's true, that residency-PhDs usually aren't as intensive/rigorous as a pure PhD. I'm sure that's highly variable though, because I know some who probably want to be researchers more than physicians, who did really excellent work in their residency PhD...so take that with a huge grain of salt.

but maybe that's because a majority of those PhDs were done with the intention of getting in and out ASAP and use the credentials for a job?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, extendablelungs said:

3 year fellowship(s) vs 3 year PhD - which would add more market value to a budding surgeon? or perhaps it would vary by specialty?

Fellowship!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, kirraea said:

but maybe that's because a majority of those PhDs were done with the intention of getting in and out ASAP and use the credentials for a job?

That's how it was explained to me. Not sure if its entirely true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you consider Obstetrics a surgical specialty that's your best chance at doing a 5 year specialty with minimal or no additional training (i.e. 1 or 0 fellowships for reasonable work location).

With regards to post-residency qualifications, it seems that one fellowship plus a Master's degree is sufficient in most surgical specialties to find a job, at least for now. Often a MSc can be completed in just 1 year. Surgery is the toughest road, but keep in mind that it is the norm for most 5 year specialties to face bad hours/call and require a fellowship to find work in a reasonable location.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, 1D7 said:

If you consider Obstetrics a surgical specialty that's your best chance at doing a 5 year specialty with minimal or no additional training (i.e. 1 or 0 fellowships for reasonable work location).

FRCSC for ob/gyns :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PhD2MD said:

Neurology. My break down is:


Undergrad - 4 years - done
PhD - 5 years - done
MD - 3 years - 2/3 done
Residency - 5 years
Fellow ship - 2 years
Total = 19....oh God, I didn't realize how bad it was until I wrote this post. I think I was in denial haha.

ha - yeah, let no one say medicine is the quick path :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, la marzocco said:

FRCSC for ob/gyns :) 

They're quite good at finding the ureter. Of course they do that by transecting it......

 

I should clarify, the only places that give a shit about academic degrees are academic programs. You can work a community job in a big city and nobody cares if you have a masters. Even in academic programs it seems to be the university who drives the need for academic degrees. Most surgeons, even in an academic center, only do them to meet the universiy's requirements for appointment to a job. 

 

Masters and PhDs are pointless credentialism a lot of the time. It certainly doesn't make you a better clinician or surgeon. That's why most of the surgeons doing them don't give a sweet f*ck about them beyond getting them done. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, extendablelungs said:

3 year fellowship(s) vs 3 year PhD - which would add more market value to a budding surgeon? or perhaps it would vary by specialty?

Fellowship by far. People care about your surgical expertise. Very few care about the fact that you spent 2 years researching a random step in some biochemical reaction because it adds zero value to your skill as a surgeon. In fact it probably detracts from it (if it meant you weren't operating full time during your studies).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, NLengr said:

That's why most of the surgeons doing them don't give a sweet f*ck about them beyond getting them done

that's the feel im getting from this haha. still, given the job market it's probably better to have a phd than not right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, NLengr said:

Fellowship by far. People care about your surgical expertise. Very few care about the fact that you spent 2 years researching a random step in some biochemical reaction because it adds zero value to your skill as a surgeon. In fact it probably detracts from it (if it meant you weren't operating full time during your studies).

That's true. The time spend on real basic science research usually isn't useful at all in clinical medicine. It's VERY useful for the long term advancements of medicine/man kind (I mean, thank God so many people did hardcore pure research in the past, we can only do the clinical work we do now because of where they've brought us so far), but those are 2 very different goals. Hard to be great at both at the same time, so one often gets in the way of the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kirraea said:

that's the feel im getting from this haha. still, given the job market it's probably better to have a phd than not right?

If you want an academic job then yes. Although a masters will suffice a lot of the time. And you can do that during fellowship. Won't be an academically amazing masters but who cares. For most people its checking a box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/1/2018 at 2:22 PM, extendablelungs said:

.... wow. 

 

why are the odds so grim if there's clearly a shortage and the majority of surgeons are brutally overworked?

Cause single payer healthcare. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason I used to be super interested in these two paths in the US

After med school cv peds 5+3 or 6 (few and harder to get into so basically assume 8) + 2 I think + 2-3 fellowships

Also after med school combined nsx and plastics residency is 10 years + whatever fellowships but was definitely interested in doing 3 in spine surg onc and whatever clipping and coiling falls under can’t remember hah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×