Help please

[doc5]

Hi everyone,

First off: Congratulations and good luck to all those who got interview invites for pre-med. I avoided the forums for a week because....I didn't get an invite, I was extremely upset and still am but I can't do anything about it now.

Anyways, for the first time I have began thinking about the process that undergrad students take to apply to med (never really thought about it before, always naively assumed I will get into premed) and I have a lot of questions. I plan on applying to the 6 unis in ontario and Mcgill.

1. My first question is that there are three types of medicine programs in mcgill M.D,C.M , M.D,C.M&M.B.A and M.D,C.M &Ph.D. I always wanted to do an MBA and I would like to apply to M.D,C.M & MBA, but I am wondering if one is easier to get into then the other? What if I applied to M.D, C.M & MBA and get refused, do they consider me for just M.D, C.M?

2. My second question was whether I had to submit 6 sets of documents to the 6 unis in ontario, but I just found out that there is a system called OMSAS that sends your documents to all ontario med schools , which is neat! I read somewhere that out of province applicants count for only 5% of the seats, does that mean chances of getting into med schools as an out of province applicant is slim?

3. When do you think is the best time to write the MCAT, this summer, while everything is fresh in my mind or after an year in undergrad.

4. I don't know how much you can help me with this one; but I am debating between which undergrad to take: Chemical engineering or anatomy. I want to be a doctor no matter what, and I feel that in anatomy I can get high grades and be a 'better' candidate than if I went through chemical engineering but you can't rely on anatomy as a back-up because there really isn't a 'career' in it so I'm undecided. Oh and I found out that mcgill offers bio-medical engineering as a post-graduate program, so if I utlimately don't get into medicine I guess I can do that.

 

I don't know if all this is considered questions or me just trying to comfort myself by putting it all in writing but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh and I now see how Medpen feels...not even an interview.....sigh....

[a1b1]

Hi everyone,

First off: Congratulations and good luck to all those who got interview invites for pre-med. I avoided the forums for a week because....I didn't get an invite, I was extremely upset and still am but I can't do anything about it now.

Anyways, for the first time I have began thinking about the process that undergrad students take to apply to med (never really thought about it before, always naively assumed I will get into premed) and I have a lot of questions. I plan on applying to the 6 unis in ontario and Mcgill.

1. My first question is that there are three types of medicine programs in mcgill M.D,C.M , M.D,C.M&M.B.A and M.D,C.M &Ph.D. I always wanted to do an MBA and I would like to apply to M.D,C.M & MBA, but I am wondering if one is easier to get into then the other? What if I applied to M.D, C.M & MBA and get refused, do they consider me for just M.D, C.M?

2. My second question was whether I had to submit 6 sets of documents to the 6 unis in ontario, but I just found out that there is a system called OMSAS that sends your documents to all ontario med schools , which is neat! I read somewhere that out of province applicants count for only 5% of the seats, does that mean chances of getting into med schools as an out of province applicant is slim?

3. When do you think is the best time to write the MCAT, this summer, while everything is fresh in my mind or after an year in undergrad.

4. I don't know how much you can help me with this one; but I am debating between which undergrad to take: Chemical engineering or anatomy. I want to be a doctor no matter what, and I feel that in anatomy I can get high grades and be a 'better' candidate than if I went through chemical engineering but you can't rely on anatomy as a back-up because there really isn't a 'career' in it so I'm undecided. Oh and I found out that mcgill offers bio-medical engineering as a post-graduate program, so if I utlimately don't get into medicine I guess I can do that.

 

I don't know if all this is considered questions or me just trying to comfort myself by putting it all in writing but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh and I now see how Medpen feels...not even an interview.....sigh....

 

 

Hey there, il try to answer your questions as best as I can with what I have gathered from this site so far.

 

1 ) If you apply to lets say MD PhD or MD MBA , i believe if you get rejected they consider you in the normal MD applicant category as opposed to just fully removing your application.

 

2 ) Ya chances are slim, getting into an MD school is hard enough, if you add the OOP factor, it lowers the odds even more. I believe some schools in ontario dont have an IP category, might wanna look into that a bit more. Also, when the time comes you should defenetly consider the french universities also.

 

3) Personally I was planning to take the mcat the summer after my first year of university, the cegep material would still be fresh + I would have taken courses that could help for the mcat, from what i hear there is some physiology in the mcat, also if I do bad on it, this gives me time to practice for it and be ready for the next summer when i retake. This is something your gonna have to figure out on your own, everyone has different personal preferences as to when they should take it, I would recommend taking everything into account for this choice.

 

4) both programs are good. You will have to weigh the pros and cons. On one hand you could go for chem engineer, and you would have a back up plan, but from what I hear, engineering programs arent exactly easy and obtaining good grades can be difficult, but not impossible. On the other hand you have anatomy and cell bio, which I believe is the program your refering to. From what I hear, it seems to be a relatively easy program. Keep in mind this could all be bogus and it may very well turn out to be actually difficult, who really knows.

 

I was in a similar situation as you earlier this semester, I was trying to decide between Nursing and exercise science, both programs had similar pros and cons to the two programs you mentionned and I couldent figure out which option to go with. At some point you will have to take a risk and go with the option you see best fit.

 

 

Best of luck and take care, hope this helped.

[Corie]

Hi Doc5,

 

I'm sorry to hear about the outcome. After every twist and turn in life, many new opportunities arise. Life is too long to start working so young; you will have experiences some of us will never have.

 

Before I applied in my year, I always thought that I won't make it in. Thus, I did wonder the same questions as you did and did my research. I hope my respone would be of some help.

 

Hi everyone,

1. My first question is that there are three types of medicine programs in mcgill M.D,C.M , M.D,C.M&M.B.A and M.D,C.M &Ph.D. I always wanted to do an MBA and I would like to apply to M.D,C.M & MBA, but I am wondering if one is easier to get into then the other? What if I applied to M.D, C.M & MBA and get refused, do they consider me for just M.D, C.M?

This is actually an example of my first point. You cannot do the MD/MBA joint program if you were admitted off Med-P. But you can after completing a bachelor degree! The answer to your question is, if you apply to MD/MBA or MD/Ph.D., you are automatically concidered for MDCM.

2. My second question was whether I had to submit 6 sets of documents to the 6 unis in ontario, but I just found out that there is a system called OMSAS that sends your documents to all ontario med schools , which is neat! I read somewhere that out of province applicants count for only 5% of the seats, does that mean chances of getting into med schools as an out of province applicant is slim?

Many Ontario school don't have limits for seats for out of province applicants. Thus, Ontario is the most competitive province to get admitted into a medical school. Its not as hard as people make it seem however. It just boils down to your GPA. 3.8+ and you'll have a good shot at most schools.

3. When do you think is the best time to write the MCAT, this summer, while everything is fresh in my mind or after an year in undergrad.

I'd say after your first year here at McGill (U1), start studying for the MCAT. You should have learned all the topics you'll need by then. This is what my peers tell me. I can't varify this as I've never done MCATs.

4. I don't know how much you can help me with this one; but I am debating between which undergrad to take: Chemical engineering or anatomy. I want to be a doctor no matter what, and I feel that in anatomy I can get high grades and be a 'better' candidate than if I went through chemical engineering but you can't rely on anatomy as a back-up because there really isn't a 'career' in it so I'm undecided. Oh and I found out that mcgill offers bio-medical engineering as a post-graduate program, so if I utlimately don't get into medicine I guess I can do that.

I have a few friends in Chem Eng and I hear horror stories about SOME classes with sub-50 class averages on midterms and finals. I also hear them telling me they got a C+ but about how happy they are as the average is lower. GPA wise, anatomy would be much much easier. It is also possible to do well in engineering however. It is conciderably more difficult according to them.

 

Good luck! Let me know if you have more questions.

[johndoe88]

Hi everyone,

First off: Congratulations and good luck to all those who got interview invites for pre-med. I avoided the forums for a week because....I didn't get an invite, I was extremely upset and still am but I can't do anything about it now.

Anyways, for the first time I have began thinking about the process that undergrad students take to apply to med (never really thought about it before, always naively assumed I will get into premed) and I have a lot of questions. I plan on applying to the 6 unis in ontario and Mcgill.

1. My first question is that there are three types of medicine programs in mcgill M.D,C.M , M.D,C.M&M.B.A and M.D,C.M &Ph.D. I always wanted to do an MBA and I would like to apply to M.D,C.M & MBA, but I am wondering if one is easier to get into then the other? What if I applied to M.D, C.M & MBA and get refused, do they consider me for just M.D, C.M?

2. My second question was whether I had to submit 6 sets of documents to the 6 unis in ontario, but I just found out that there is a system called OMSAS that sends your documents to all ontario med schools , which is neat! I read somewhere that out of province applicants count for only 5% of the seats, does that mean chances of getting into med schools as an out of province applicant is slim?

3. When do you think is the best time to write the MCAT, this summer, while everything is fresh in my mind or after an year in undergrad.

4. I don't know how much you can help me with this one; but I am debating between which undergrad to take: Chemical engineering or anatomy. I want to be a doctor no matter what, and I feel that in anatomy I can get high grades and be a 'better' candidate than if I went through chemical engineering but you can't rely on anatomy as a back-up because there really isn't a 'career' in it so I'm undecided. Oh and I found out that mcgill offers bio-medical engineering as a post-graduate program, so if I utlimately don't get into medicine I guess I can do that.

 

I don't know if all this is considered questions or me just trying to comfort myself by putting it all in writing but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh and I now see how Medpen feels...not even an interview.....sigh....

 

-I'm a McGill grad (2010-Anatomy and Cell Bio) so I'll try to help you out. I'm also in the process of applying to Med....I'm also referring to years as a 4 year degree...I'll also refer to them as U(#)

 

1. It isn't really easier or harder. It's more are you good enough for med and good enough for the other....it doesn't affect your med chances if you do a PHD or MBA as well.

 

2. A)Omsas does it all for you. You just submit everything to them and they will send it to whatever ONT schools you wish to apply to.

Some ONT schools do favor IP or in a certain area region. Ottawa, Western, and Mac all have some sort of favoritism. NOSM sorta does but mainly if you are rural. U of T and Queen's do not.

 

3. Write it after your 2nd year (U1). You'll have done Org 1 and 2 as well as all the other courses. If you are in ANAT or another life sci you will have done Phgy 209, 210 which help a lot for Bio Scis section. Also writing after U1 gives you flexibility in case you wish to improve your score. I ended up re writing after 3rd year (U2) and having that time just in case was good. That way if you do it right after 3rd year there isn't all that pressure to do well on that one exam b4 you apply.

 

4. Chem Eng will absolutely 100% destroy your GPA. You will be lucky to have a 3.5 cGPA. My friends in eng all say that a 3.5 is a really really good gpa for McGill eng. That being said if you really want that major no one is stopping you.

 

I was an ANAT major and it was a good program. It definitely prepped me well for the MCAT and my friends in med all say it helped them a ton. Also, ANAT is a bit easier to do well in although it is all pure memorization. One last thing about anatomy is that it's anatomy and cell biology. There is a very very large amount of cell biology and a small bit of anatomy. I really only took about 5 real anatomy courses. That being said I really enjoyed my major and I did strategically plan out my courses so that I could take easy electives like natural disasters etc. Anat gives you a bit of flexibility.

 

O and one more thing I don't know anyone in Engineering that finished in 4 years (U0-U3) without having done AP or IB. aka it's a 5 year program (U4)

[doc5]

thanks to all these replies, they really helped a ton.

I just have a few questions, again; I thought Anatomy and molecular biology was a three year degree, that is I thought I will apply to med during my third year...

and Johndoe can you name me some easy electives so that I can be on the lookout.

And Corie, you mentioned that your friends in chem. eng are happy because they are above class average. I thought gpa unlike crc does not depend on class average. I thought marks above 85= 4.0 gpa.

[SharkLvr]

-I was an ANAT major and it was a good program. It definitely prepped me well for the MCAT and my friends in med all say it helped them a ton. Also, ANAT is a bit easier to do well in although it is all pure memorization. One last thing about anatomy is that it's anatomy and cell biology. There is a very very large amount of cell biology and a small bit of anatomy. I really only took about 5 real anatomy courses. That being said I really enjoyed my major and I did strategically plan out my courses so that I could take easy electives like natural disasters etc. Anat gives you a bit of flexibility.

 

To add to johndoe88's comments about anatomy, I'm also an Anat'er here and know a few that got into MDCM class of 2015. "Word on the campus street" here at mcgill does indeed brand Anat/Cell Bio as one of the "easier" biomedical majors (compared to physio/immuno, etc). But keep in mind that most of the people in our class that find the program "easy" are often quite comfortable with the ample memorization involved. Also, I also know quite a few that absolutely DETEST the cell biology aspect of it, and are therefore having a hard time getting by. Yes, I would absolutely recommend it as a great major for pre-meds, but make sure you investigate it first. Also keep in mind that plenty of immuno/biochem/bio/physio/neurosci/etc also wind up in mcgill med!

[samy]

Faculty of Engineering uses letter grades.

 

" Note for Engineering: In the Faculty of Engineering, letter grades are assigned according to the grading scheme adopted by the professor in charge of a particular course. This may not correspond to marks indicated in the “Numerical Scale of Marks” column above . Grade D indicates marginal results which may be acceptable for peripheral courses but not for required core courses. The classification of a course as core or peripheral depends on your individual program and will be decided by the department concerned.

Grades have the following designations:

A, A- Very Good

B+, B, B- Good

C+, C Satisfactory

D Conditional Pass

F Failed "

 

http://www.mcgill.ca/study/2010-2011/university-regulations-and-information/gi_grading_and_grade_point_averages

 

Having 85 can be really easy in some classes and be impossible in others...

[Corie]

And Corie, you mentioned that your friends in chem. eng are happy because they are above class average. I thought gpa unlike crc does not depend on class average. I thought marks above 85= 4.0 gpa.

 

Yes your absolutely correct. I was refering to my non-med-bound friends taking engineering to become a professional. They are quite happy being above the class average. I often hear them refer to their grade as "# of standard deviations above average" rather than a numerical grade. Some eng classes have really low averages though. However, generally in science ones, averages are around 73%. There are "easy courses" but some people take them expecting an easy A and end up bombing them. It depends on your interests and talents. (Like don't take a class that is 90% essays if writing arguments is not your thing).

 

Engineering is also atleast 4 years. Not totally sure but some are 5 years! Taking the med-school prereq courses in Engineering can be tricky due to scheduling but is doable.

 

And yes, anatomy and cell bio is 3 year program. So you will be applying again in your 3rd year. (You can also apply before finishing your bachelor to some universities)

[doc5]

Yes your absolutely correct. I was refering to my non-med-bound friends taking engineering to become a professional. They are quite happy being above the class average. I often hear them refer to their grade as "# of standard deviations above average" rather than a numerical grade. Some eng classes have really low averages though. However, generally in science ones, averages are around 73%. There are "easy courses" but some people take them expecting an easy A and end up bombing them. It depends on your interests and talents. (Like don't take a class that is 90% essays if writing arguments is not your thing).

 

Engineering is also atleast 4 years. Not totally sure but some are 5 years! Taking the med-school prereq courses in Engineering can be tricky due to scheduling but is doable.

 

And yes, anatomy and cell bio is 3 year program. So you will be applying again in your 3rd year. (You can also apply before finishing your bachelor to some universities)

 

 

Corie thanks so much for your great advice!! What you said at the end really excites me, there are universities I can apply to before my third year??? can you please give me more info please such as when and which universities.

I also have another question; I was told that you can finish your undergrad fast if I take summer courses, but I realize admissions into med only happens once a year so if I finish in 2.5 years instead of 3 will that help?

once again thanks to all!!

[johndoe88]

thanks to all these replies, they really helped a ton.

I just have a few questions, again; I thought Anatomy and molecular biology was a three year degree, that is I thought I will apply to med during my third year...

and Johndoe can you name me some easy electives so that I can be on the lookout.

And Corie, you mentioned that your friends in chem. eng are happy because they are above class average. I thought gpa unlike crc does not depend on class average. I thought marks above 85= 4.0 gpa.

 

 

Sorry. I'm OOP and only in Quebec do you take 3 years cuz of CEGEP. It is a 3 year degree for you but for anyone not from Quebec a degree is 4 years. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Um easy classes really depend on you and what you are interested in. I'll list some but obviously they aren't always easy for everyone.

 

Natural Disasters

Understanding Planet Earth

The Terrestrial Planets (not easy if you have no interest in space at all...you will do poorly cuz she is a brutal professor)

 

Things do change from year to yaer....in my year Engl 201 survey of engl lit 2 was really easy. Great course for your English pre req.

 

EAPR 250 -research essay and rhetoric is good if you get professor Cooper. DO NOT GET ANOTHER PROF

 

The Art of Listening (I never took it but it's apparently easy)

 

Lotta physics ones like Milky Way and Everyday Physics

 

That's bout all I can think of.

[Robin Hood]

Hi everyone,

First off: Congratulations and good luck to all those who got interview invites for pre-med. I avoided the forums for a week because....I didn't get an invite, I was extremely upset and still am but I can't do anything about it now.

Anyways, for the first time I have began thinking about the process that undergrad students take to apply to med (never really thought about it before, always naively assumed I will get into premed) and I have a lot of questions. I plan on applying to the 6 unis in ontario and Mcgill.

1. My first question is that there are three types of medicine programs in mcgill M.D,C.M , M.D,C.M&M.B.A and M.D,C.M &Ph.D. I always wanted to do an MBA and I would like to apply to M.D,C.M & MBA, but I am wondering if one is easier to get into then the other? What if I applied to M.D, C.M & MBA and get refused, do they consider me for just M.D, C.M?

2. My second question was whether I had to submit 6 sets of documents to the 6 unis in ontario, but I just found out that there is a system called OMSAS that sends your documents to all ontario med schools , which is neat! I read somewhere that out of province applicants count for only 5% of the seats, does that mean chances of getting into med schools as an out of province applicant is slim?

3. When do you think is the best time to write the MCAT, this summer, while everything is fresh in my mind or after an year in undergrad.

4. I don't know how much you can help me with this one; but I am debating between which undergrad to take: Chemical engineering or anatomy. I want to be a doctor no matter what, and I feel that in anatomy I can get high grades and be a 'better' candidate than if I went through chemical engineering but you can't rely on anatomy as a back-up because there really isn't a 'career' in it so I'm undecided. Oh and I found out that mcgill offers bio-medical engineering as a post-graduate program, so if I utlimately don't get into medicine I guess I can do that.

 

I don't know if all this is considered questions or me just trying to comfort myself by putting it all in writing but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh and I now see how Medpen feels...not even an interview.....sigh....

 

Unless you don't speak French, I think it will be a good idea to try the French schools. Getting accepted in Ontario is not that easy. That said, what you should do now depends on why you didn't get an interview. If it's your marks, that you should try to improve them at university, if not, then you're better not applying to undergrad and to try to apply to some French schools as a cegepian because it's easier to get accepted then (unless you don't speak French well).

[Corie]

I'd really recommend finishing your degree though Alberta universities and one or two in Ontario don't require you to have a degree (pending completion) when you apply. Viewing the sticky "What are my chances" in premed discussion board helps. A nice flow chart there. Remember, CEGEP kind of counts as first year university. You'll have to ask those school specifically how they view cegep grads.

 

Really though, take your time, your still young. I didn't know about all the other exciting careers out there until after I was admitted. I have no regrets, though if I knew about them, it would have made my decision a lot harder. Also life's really not a race into med school. Summers are much needed for time off and time to develop and get to know yourself say though volunteering or travelling.

 

You can also go on afmc.ca and click on their publications tab. View the "requirement" pdf link and you'll see all the admission requirement and stats. In the end, just focus on a good GPA. The other factors are out of your control.

[Corie]

Good point. You got 3 years can always learn french. Plus, you need french to work in quebec. Always better to beable to communicate with patients regardless of their language.

 

Unless you don't speak French, I think it will be a good idea to try the French schools. Getting accepted in Ontario is not that easy. That said, what you should do now depends on why you didn't get an interview. If it's your marks, that you should try to improve them at university, if not, then you're better not applying to undergrad and to try to apply to some French schools as a cegepian because it's easier to get accepted then (unless you don't speak French well).

[doc5]

I really don't know why I didn't get an interview, but it wasn't because of my marks (35+ crc). Yeah I regret not applying to the french unis, I had to take the TFI so that's what scared me off. I am guessing it is too late to apply right?

[Corie]

I really don't know why I didn't get an interview, but it wasn't because of my marks (35+ crc). Yeah I regret not applying to the french unis, I had to take the TFI so that's what scared me off. I am guessing it is too late to apply right?

 

Yeah but you can apply again in your 3rd year of your bachelor degree. You have a great chance to be accepted at a quebec university.

 

Some people with really high CRC's don't invited for an interview for McGill. They have a holistic approach and they look at your letter/abstract carefully. I think there are reports in this forum about people with 36-39 CRCs not getting interview invites. Was quite a shock when I first heard that.

[doc5]

Will I still have to write the TFI after the three years?? I am assuming you do, and is there any way for me to write within the next few years so that I won't have to write it during the time of application.

 

Oh and I really appreciate your help Corie

[a1b1]

Will I still have to write the TFI after the three years?? I am assuming you do, and is there any way for me to write within the next few years so that I won't have to write it during the time of application.

 

Oh and I really appreciate your help Corie

 

not if you have done your highschool in french.

[doc5]

I didn't do my high school in french:( .... But is it possible for me to write the tfi during my second year before I apply there during my third year??

[Corie]

I didn't do my high school in french:( .... But is it possible for me to write the tfi during my second year before I apply there during my third year??

 

Your worried about a lot of things that is 2-3 years down the road. Patience!

 

Actually, I was just like you when I was in CEGEP. I asked myself all the questions that you asked plus more. But in the end of all things, I realized I was worrying about things outside of my control. I understand your desire to find out these information however.

 

I suggest you phone UdeM (or any of the French Universitieis). I think they'd tell you. Personally I don't see why they wouldn't let you. It's great that your determined to tune up your french; it'll increase your chances drastically!

 

Have you already reviewed this file? http://www.afmc.ca/pdf/2011AdBk.pdf

It shows you all the admission chances in %. I should add that I think McGill's MDCM program stats include Med-Ps so the data isn't really useful.

 

UCalgary and UAlberta's admission requirement says "2 full years of university or college" which always mades me wonder... does that mean someone can apply in their first year at University if they did CEGEP?

[sleeping_sickness]

I didn't do my high school in french:( .... But is it possible for me to write the tfi during my second year before I apply there during my third year??

 

I can field this one. On their website, it says that a TFI is valid for 2 years. However, this is not necessarily true. I applied to the French schools last year and got an 870 (which is just above their cutoff). When I dropped off the scores, the woman told me that scores just above the cutoff were only valid for 1 year.

 

the point: the test score must be less than 1 year old when classes are scheduled to start. that being said, UQAM offers a TFI course (which isn't THAT helpful). If you do take the course, you can write the TFI in november. If you pass, awesome! if not, you can write it again when UdeM gives you a date. If you're lucky you'll get a week's notice. My advice, read a lot of french.