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ellorie

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  1. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from Elgar in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Neither did I before clerkship - never pulled an all nighter in my life prior to that point or really even went to bed all that late.  It's surprising what you can adapt to.  I was incredibly anxious about it before I did it, but it turned out to be totally doable.  Unpleasant at times, but doable.  You learn what strategies help you manage.  Best advice I ever got from a resident was to bring a pair of clean underwear and socks to call.  Turns out a change of undergarments half way through the night is surprisingly refreshing! It really does work...
  2. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from blah1234 in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Staff call is also more $$$ which I think is generally motivating for people.
  3. Haha
    ellorie got a reaction from Butterfly_ in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Not to be rude, but I laughed at the "nobody can work 80 hours per week" comment.
    I didn't do it much in psychiatry but it's so so standard issue in so many of the other specialties.  Just one Saturday call can easily push you to almost 70 without even trying even in psych (and I generally feel like I got off pretty easy from a residency perspective).
  4. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from JohnGrisham in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Neither did I before clerkship - never pulled an all nighter in my life prior to that point or really even went to bed all that late.  It's surprising what you can adapt to.  I was incredibly anxious about it before I did it, but it turned out to be totally doable.  Unpleasant at times, but doable.  You learn what strategies help you manage.  Best advice I ever got from a resident was to bring a pair of clean underwear and socks to call.  Turns out a change of undergarments half way through the night is surprisingly refreshing! It really does work...
  5. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from MaudeB in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    I actually found residency far better than clerkship even though I worked harder.  The absence of constant studying (except for PGY5) helps so much because you can actually use a lot of your "at home" time as actual down time (or at least I was able to - if you have kids I'm sure it's different but that's true of everything).  The evaluation is also less intense because even though you're thinking about getting a job, the scrutiny is less for a lot of it, and you stay in one place for long enough that you don't have to impress every single second.  You also have more of a sense of being useful and belonging in your program rather than always feeling vaguely out of place.
  6. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from bread in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Neither did I before clerkship - never pulled an all nighter in my life prior to that point or really even went to bed all that late.  It's surprising what you can adapt to.  I was incredibly anxious about it before I did it, but it turned out to be totally doable.  Unpleasant at times, but doable.  You learn what strategies help you manage.  Best advice I ever got from a resident was to bring a pair of clean underwear and socks to call.  Turns out a change of undergarments half way through the night is surprisingly refreshing! It really does work...
  7. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from bread in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    I actually found residency far better than clerkship even though I worked harder.  The absence of constant studying (except for PGY5) helps so much because you can actually use a lot of your "at home" time as actual down time (or at least I was able to - if you have kids I'm sure it's different but that's true of everything).  The evaluation is also less intense because even though you're thinking about getting a job, the scrutiny is less for a lot of it, and you stay in one place for long enough that you don't have to impress every single second.  You also have more of a sense of being useful and belonging in your program rather than always feeling vaguely out of place.
  8. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from frenchpress in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Neither did I before clerkship - never pulled an all nighter in my life prior to that point or really even went to bed all that late.  It's surprising what you can adapt to.  I was incredibly anxious about it before I did it, but it turned out to be totally doable.  Unpleasant at times, but doable.  You learn what strategies help you manage.  Best advice I ever got from a resident was to bring a pair of clean underwear and socks to call.  Turns out a change of undergarments half way through the night is surprisingly refreshing! It really does work...
  9. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from Sunshine! in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Neither did I before clerkship - never pulled an all nighter in my life prior to that point or really even went to bed all that late.  It's surprising what you can adapt to.  I was incredibly anxious about it before I did it, but it turned out to be totally doable.  Unpleasant at times, but doable.  You learn what strategies help you manage.  Best advice I ever got from a resident was to bring a pair of clean underwear and socks to call.  Turns out a change of undergarments half way through the night is surprisingly refreshing! It really does work...
  10. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from MaudeB in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Neither did I before clerkship - never pulled an all nighter in my life prior to that point or really even went to bed all that late.  It's surprising what you can adapt to.  I was incredibly anxious about it before I did it, but it turned out to be totally doable.  Unpleasant at times, but doable.  You learn what strategies help you manage.  Best advice I ever got from a resident was to bring a pair of clean underwear and socks to call.  Turns out a change of undergarments half way through the night is surprisingly refreshing! It really does work...
  11. Haha
    ellorie got a reaction from 1D7 in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Not to be rude, but I laughed at the "nobody can work 80 hours per week" comment.
    I didn't do it much in psychiatry but it's so so standard issue in so many of the other specialties.  Just one Saturday call can easily push you to almost 70 without even trying even in psych (and I generally feel like I got off pretty easy from a residency perspective).
  12. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from birdy21 in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Not to be rude, but I laughed at the "nobody can work 80 hours per week" comment.
    I didn't do it much in psychiatry but it's so so standard issue in so many of the other specialties.  Just one Saturday call can easily push you to almost 70 without even trying even in psych (and I generally feel like I got off pretty easy from a residency perspective).
  13. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from zxcccxz in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Not to be rude, but I laughed at the "nobody can work 80 hours per week" comment.
    I didn't do it much in psychiatry but it's so so standard issue in so many of the other specialties.  Just one Saturday call can easily push you to almost 70 without even trying even in psych (and I generally feel like I got off pretty easy from a residency perspective).
  14. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from blah1234 in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Not to be rude, but I laughed at the "nobody can work 80 hours per week" comment.
    I didn't do it much in psychiatry but it's so so standard issue in so many of the other specialties.  Just one Saturday call can easily push you to almost 70 without even trying even in psych (and I generally feel like I got off pretty easy from a residency perspective).
  15. Haha
    ellorie reacted to offmychestplease in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    I love it when premeds tell medical students/residents what medical school is like 
  16. Haha
    ellorie got a reaction from frenchpress in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Not to be rude, but I laughed at the "nobody can work 80 hours per week" comment.
    I didn't do it much in psychiatry but it's so so standard issue in so many of the other specialties.  Just one Saturday call can easily push you to almost 70 without even trying even in psych (and I generally feel like I got off pretty easy from a residency perspective).
  17. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from sykern in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    Not to be rude, but I laughed at the "nobody can work 80 hours per week" comment.
    I didn't do it much in psychiatry but it's so so standard issue in so many of the other specialties.  Just one Saturday call can easily push you to almost 70 without even trying even in psych (and I generally feel like I got off pretty easy from a residency perspective).
  18. Haha
    ellorie reacted to neurologist19 in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    I doubt anyone is capable of working 80 hours a week. If so many medical students can graduate from the medical school no problem, it means it is not 80 hours actual work... or whatever it is, it is manageable. People on forums like exaggerate things
  19. Like
    ellorie reacted to robclem21 in What’s maximum number of hours that clinical clerk can work per week?   
    It may not be 80 hours every week, but there are certainly many weeks where hours worked top 80-90, even as medical student. Furthermore, those hours don't even include when you are coming up to an exam as a clerk and your "not-at-work-hours" are spent studying. As a resident, the number of weeks where you clock 80-90 hours is increased and when you work 1 in 2 weekends, it doesn't take very long for those 80-90 hour weeks to go back to back. If you want to do any 5 year speciality you better be CAPABLE of doing extended work weeks.
    As far as how to get to 80 hours per week.... easy... 2 call (26hrs x 2 = 52) + 2 post call days (0) + 2 x 12 hours days (=24) = 76 hours (plus miscellaneous crap incl. research, teaching, etc. that easily adds 4+ hours) or if you are working a weekend (which is every other weekend for residents and usually once per month for clerks) - 3x 26 hour call (3x26 = 78) + 3 post call days (0) + 1 x 12 hour day = 90 hours followed by right back to work for another 50-60 hour week on Monday (or more with more call). Again, plus any studying or work that needs to be done on your own time. I will also add to this that many small specialties aren't even guaranteed their post-call days or do 1:3 home call that often turns into a busy in-hospital call with no post-call day guaranteed.
    I think there is some value in overnight call (whether its 24 hour or 16 hour) for clerks. Clerks are already shielded from a lot of the work residents and staff do, and its important for them to have a real experience before committing to a 5 year residency and lifetime of a specialty. I don't think it needs to be 1:4 as it is for residents, and even on call they don't deal with much of what residents deal with, but I do believe its important experience. There are lots of cases and other grunt work you do on call that you don't always get exposure to during the days thats an important component of any specialty.
    Anywho... call is shit, and it's not just people on this forum exaggerating. The burnout, fatigue and work are real so I think saying its not 80 hours of actual work is BS and naive. 
  20. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from ThatMedGyal in How hard is residency?   
    I think in psychiatry, PGY2 and PGY3 are extremely hard years.  Really PGY2 is the first "real" year of practicing psychiatry.  Almost everyone I know emerged from it burned out to some degree.  It does get better.  I found PGY4 and PGY5 miles better.  Having more seniority, more role power, more control over my life, and more comfort with the job.  Also finding mentors that I can genuinely trust with anything - I only really have 1-2 that I trust that way, but it's enough.  I also think that in psychiatry, in clerkship the residents shielded me from a lot of it - particularly the verbal and physical violence.  I had no idea how violent it was going to be and what I would see/participate in/have done to me.  It was really a shock to the system in the early years.
    In our program you can get stuck with someone crappy for a full 6 months, which I did at one point.  I survived it in the end but it definitely contributed to the early-mid residency burnout.
    The RC situation is a mess - they should have given the exam online with remote proctoring.  Now none of us can get independent licenses and we are all stuck in supervised practice until the fall because they insisted on postponing the exam to the fall.  Even the MCC has managed to get it together to give the MCQ portion of theirs online before the end of the academic year.  It's not the end of the world because the supervision is minimal and we can still bill, but it's pretty crummy having to study all over again right in the first few months of being staff.
    Feel free to PM/message me if you ever want to get residency stuff off your chest - I remember those junior residency years and they are so hard.
  21. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from ThatMedGyal in How hard is residency?   
    Highly specialty and program dependent.
    In psychiatry, I think things are pretty decent.
    I did not like clerkship - I hated rotating every 2-4 weeks, never really belonging anywhere or being able to become part of the team, constantly studying for endless frequent exams along with working long hours without really having any decision-making power or ever feeling really useful or capable, and trying to get set up for CaRMS.
    Residency has been a lot better for the most part.  For us there is one big exam at the end (not counting the LMCC) so the need to study in any concerted way really only comes in PGY5.  Of course you should be reading and learning, but for me looking things up as I go and learning on the job without the constant exam pressure feels a lot better.
    In psychiatry the way I went through we would spend 6 months in the same place (with CBD things are a bit different but not still many rotations are 4 months long) so you actually get integrated as a stable part of the team rather than an outsider passing through.  You have more ability to actually make decisions about your work to some degree (moreso than clerkship) and you feel more like you're actually responsible for people's care.
    Also, the further up the totem pole you get, the more collegial your relationship with your staff become.  I call everyone by their first names, we text, I've been to some of their houses.  Nobody cares if I wear jeans to work, which I do basically every day.  It becomes much more like a mentorship relationship.
    That being said, a lot of things about residency are still crappy.  Call sucks because you have very little control over your call schedule, and it can be very frequent and very exhausting.  As I've gotten older over the last five years, my body has become more and more affected to the point where I find I'm not totally normal for about a week afterwards, so if I'm doing call more often than once a week, I'm never really feeling clearheaded.  In my specialty it's less sprints (really brutal blocks) and more just a chronic marathon.  I feel lucky because our call is still relatively infrequent here, but it can be very busy.
    Your life is also very supervisor dependent.  If you get a malignant supervisor (which I have on a couple of occasions) they can really make your life a living hell, and you often have very little recourse no matter how much noise the university makes about supporting residents and dealing with supervisors who are malignant.
    In residency you are often stuck between hospital/supervisor demands and patient demands without really satisfying either.  Dealing with people who are ill and vulnerable exposes you to people acting in really unpleasant ways.  Psychiatry can be quite violent.  Nobody has ever managed to actually physically assault me, but people have given it a pretty good try on many occasions, and the verbal abuse from patients can really take a toll.
    Residency can also be isolating because most people outside of medicine don't really get it, so it can get pretty lonely.
    Also the Royal College exam is terrible but honestly don't get me started on that right now because I am BEYOND salty.  BEYOND.  The whole thing with the RC is really a great example of how the bureaucracy can absolutely mess up your life and you have very little power to do anything about it.
    Overall though I do mostly feel lucky.  I think there are many people out there in the world doing absolutely brutal (physically and mentally) jobs where they have no power over their working conditions and also work horrific hours, but get paid far less, and get far less societal recognition than we do.  I can be pretty sure that I'll end up with a roof over my head and more than I need for survival for the rest of my life, and that's so much better than most of the world gets.
    However I think other specialties can be far more awful than mine - residency for me has been exhausting and annoying, and I am at the end in a state of very high burnout and exhaustion.  But overall it's also just fine in a lot of ways.
  22. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from ThatMedGyal in Psychiatry Residency   
    I can only really speak to this as somebody who went through the process, as I have never been involved in selections as a resident.
    Psychiatry is no plastic surgery, but it is becoming more competitive.  In my grad year (2015), though, I believe we had 7 matches to psychiatry and 6 got their top choice of program, including 4 to U of T, which is one of the more competitive psychiatry programs (along with Calgary and possibly UBC, is my informal understanding).
    I would say that as long as you're doing something extracurricular-wise, just do what you like and what you feel will help with your development as a physician.  Research isn't required, but I think it's nice to have (I had some, but nothing major, mostly minor lit review type of things).  I also did some crisis line volunteering (I'd been doing it since undergrad) and some stuff around creative writing.  It gave me something to talk about in interviews.  I also joined the Canadian Psychiatric Association - it was free as a medical student, and I believe they sent me some free stuff.
    Performance on rotations and networking are important.  I did some pre-clerkship observerships and electives in psychiatry, but the clerkship stuff and especially the 4th year electives were key.  Speak to residents at your home program, see if they can connect you with residents in other programs you're interested in.  DEFINITELY ask residents to read over your personal letters during CaRMS - I've done that for clerks before and most residents are happy to do it.  In terms of electives, if you are planning to apply broadly, makes sense to try to do at least some outside your home province.  Calgary in particular likes its own and my understanding is that if you don't have ties to the area and don't do an elective, it's unlikely to get an interview.  I did an elective there and it wasn't a great experience, though.  I did 4x 2 week electives and 1x 4 week elective at my top choice program (U of T).  I recommend electives in emergency psychiatry if possible - it's an area where clerks can get a lot of experience and chance to shine, and you get a lot of contact with staff and residents.  My elective in the psych emerg at Toronto Western Hospital was excellent.
    If anybody has specific questions about my program or psych or whatever, feel free to ask or PM.
  23. Haha
  24. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from sykern in Becoming a psychiatrist while having had mental illness/trauma history   
    You will be exposed to trauma no matter what specialty you go into.  Medical training itself directly exposes you to traumatic things, both that you witness directly, and that you hear about, and if you have pre-existing trauma, you are vulnerable to getting triggered and/or retraumatized.  No matter what specialty you go into, you'll be a much better doctor if you learn to navigate your own trauma such that you don't avoid your patients' trauma.
    Lots of psychiatrists have histories of trauma.  And I think it's a myth that you have to reach some kind of state of perfect healing for that to be possible.
    The short answer is that you most likely can do it, and can be very good at it, possibly even better because of having had those experiences.  However, it can be difficult, lonely, and confusing.  Sometimes it can rip open old wounds and then you have to figure that out.  It takes a lot of work, and there aren't a lot of role models or guidance on how to do it, nor can you safely be open with most of the people in your environment while you're trying to figure out how to do it.  Being in your own therapy consistently is a really good idea.
    You're welcome to PM me if you want the long answer.
  25. Like
    ellorie got a reaction from medicallyricalmiracle in How much debt do you have?   
    As a psychiatrist, not so much. At least not as a single income household in Toronto.  Income disparity sucks like that. 
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