gogogo

Thanks for the detailed info. Quick question: Is the 300-500k before or after overhead? Is the 500k FHO doctor working a lot, or is the average 50-60 hour week manageable with that level billing?

In smaller specialties, who you know can significantly influence where you end up with a job. Does the same apply to FM at all (perhaps to a more nuanced degree)? I know that FM has a great job market, but some clinics must be better than others (e.g., better operated/admin, better location, busier vs. more relaxed, more collegial patients, lower overhead, etc.). Moreover, in the GTA--where I hope to practice--getting an FHO usually requires taking over from a retiring FP. Considering all of this, it seems that connections may help. So, does getting a job at a "better" FM clinic (or even knowi

I've been reading U.S. med school forums, and there, a 3/5 evaluation, though formally labelled as "meets expectations," is implicitly understood to mean that the student did not do well. Does the same apply to Canadian clerkship evaluations? What does "meets expectations" mean in the Canadian clerkship context and how do program directors view that? I'll be applying to FM in Ontario.

I agree with you, medmedmed132. It's a patronizing waste of time how some staff/rotations treat you. I've sat in the OR watching 1-4 hour surgeries with zero acknowledgment by the staff. I can't ask questions because he's/she's busy teaching the resident/fellow, and besides, I don't care for surgery so I don't have many questions to ask. Some will respond that you need to "show initiative," but that's the typical mindset that the system is always right and we are always wrong. Showing initiative doesn't work when you have staff that don't care to teach you and either give you a few words when

How and which province? That’s amazing pay (assuming 220k after overhead) for what seems to be an easy schedule of 3-4 working days. And what’s “planning clinic”?

What are the downsides to urgent care? Is it something you could do full-time (speaking about the GTA)?

Don't psychiatrists make ~250k with options to make even more (I'm going off the CMA profile)? That'd be an after-tax income of about 150k. You could live frugally for a year ($4000/month) and put ~100k towards the debt, no? Just asking because psych pay is such an enigma.

I agree, the opinions on this board are going to be biased because of the limited sample. But I'm starting to take them seriously because they align with what I'm hearing from FM grads that I've met/spoken to outside of the forum. All are from one of the bigger cities in Ontario. I completely agree with the financial analysis. In fact, I made the same argument in another thread comparing FM to PA or FM to FRCPC; when you consider the years of lost income, the higher earning option (i.e., FM > PA or FRCPC > FM) typically doesn't equal the lower earning option until 40s or 50s, and

Of the ~10 recent FM grads I’ve spoken to, all but one are doing something other than office-based FM. I’m starting to reconsider FM because of it. Can you elaborate on why office FM is incompatible with grads’ life goals? What about FHOs? And what are you and the others who left medicine doing now?

What's good for learning medicine at a clerk level? I don't want to study UWorld if it'll just make me good at test-taking (vs. actually learning medicine effectively).

When you say fall through the cracks, do you mean they end up leaving medicine entirely (because they couldn't get into residency)? What do they end up doing instead with their MD?

I was going to ask whether the heavier programs (e.g., 1:4 call) are really necessary if the plan is to only do regular family clinic. I guess it's still a good idea. I will look into the program descriptions, etc. but from your experience/anecdotes, which are the more rigorous programs in Ontario that train highly competent FM?

It seems like there's a lot of variation in FM programs. Where do you get this info?

Why is it considered a conflict of interest rather than just convenience? As a patient, I'd be happier to pick up my prescription right next door to my doctor's, rather than drive to an unaffiliated pharmacy. Or is it thought that the physician will be more inclined to prescribe (even if not medically necessary) because of the free rent? Do doctors actually feel that pressure from attached pharmacies?

I agree with everyone that you have a really great shot at getting into med school. But I'll be honest: Why do you want to do this? If you think when you're 65 you'll end up regretting not being a doctor, then sure, do it (though I'll point out that research on people's regrets at the end of life show that career regrets are few and far between, with most people actually regretting that they didn't spend more time with their loved ones). From a financial perspective, this is likely not going to help you that much (see my post history). From a wellbeing perspective, you'll find that much o