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yesandno

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  1. burnerboy Thank you for these statistics although it does not provide the full picture. For example, we don't know how many of them are actually qualified with a high GPA. Yes, from this document the acceptance rate does not seem to be 90%, but it is twice as higher than that of on-black premeds, so the chances of being accepted for a black premed is two times higher compared to a non-black premed. Interestingly, the American data shows the breakdown of GPAs and MCAT scores, from which we can see that the chances of being admitted if you are black and with a high GPA is 90%+ That’s what I was
  2. “Try again with Canadian statistics”. I use the US data because it is the only one available. Unfortunately, Canadian schools do not gather the data (or simply do not release). The absence of data should not be a STOP sign to discuss the issue. The American data is very applicable to us because we have a somewhat similar admission and licensing processes. We also have a very similar culture. Canadian schools begin implementing affirmative action and it is very reasonable to employ the American data for this discussion (including predictions) because Canadian data simply does not exist yet (or
  3. Thank you, Ian. I hope people will continue a calm discussion without the abusing behavior.
  4. MedicineLCS, all my numbers were taken from documents that were provided by med schools or AAMC. So, here is the AAMC table that shows GPA and MCAT score distribution and acceptance rate among the racial groups. So, with an average GPA, black applicants were almost 4 times more likely to be accepted to medical schools than Asians (81.2% vs. 20.6%), and 2.8 times more likely than white applicants (81.2% vs. 29.0%). If you see the above-average GPA and MCAT, the rate of acceptance for a black applicant is 93%, which is virtually a “straight ticket” to a medical school. For me, these data suggest
  5. “I'm not sure if you're consciously trying to troll or genuine, but stating it's not nice to accuse people of being bitter/racist/jealous and to stop doing this, and then almost immediately say someone is prejudiced/disdainful/intolerant is a self-defeating line of thought”. This was in response to her “assessment” of me. But I don’t want to dwell on this, so don’t bother reacting to this particular point. “being black is a "Straight ticket to Medical school", I'd like to see evidence of this”, the dramatic increase in admission of black students specifically after the introduction of th
  6. FingersCrossedPls, I am just going to react to your comments this one time. You are making judgements about my perceived behaviour, and are stating how bitter, racist and jealous I am. This is not generally nice (although it doesn't bother me) and is wasting everyone's time (which bothers me). I am actually shocked that you chose a career of serving people while having such a high level of prejudice, disdain and intolerance to people. As a doctor, you are not going to meet only nice and agreeable people. So, maybe consider switching careers. Again, if you are going to assess my behaviour and m
  7. “This example is a microcosm of reality, and showcases how GPA does not always represent "skill." I undusted your argument completely. By skill I mean an “existence of knowledge”, which is binary, you either have or you don’t and the GPA shows that. Again, it is a completely different issue what prevented someone from getting the knowledge, in the end, the GPA tells me yes or no in terms of knowledge. “If someone with a high SES got the same GPA as someone with lower one I would say the one with the lower SES has a high likelihood of having the superior potential” absolutely, I don’t thin
  8. You are stating something as facts when they are not: “one is running carrying a backpack full of rocks”, “by not considering that one pathway is harder than the other”, “without pairing it with the matching huge(?) disadvantage”. No, no, and no. Black students in 2020 in Canada are not systemically disadvantaged in any way (except maybe common street-level prejudice). Poor and low SES students are way more disadvantaged than the middle class and rich black students. Addressing low SES in the admission process brings way more diversity in the student body. "The same effort and skill as a
  9. “Applicants offered admission through BSAP pass every checkpoint that everybody else does”, as it should be! Never did I suggest that the opposite. However, if there are two applicants with an identical above average GPA and MCAT score, the black and indigenous applicants will have a huge advantage. This is supported by the data, simply saying these facts is not racist. “Any argument taking away their merit or achievements due to their race is bananas”. Let’s just agree that all serious premeds of all races have a decent GPA and MCAT score. Nobody takes away anything from their achievemen
  10. Psyrmorelan, if there is an application stream for black applicants and a percentage of seats is reserved only for black applicants, it is only logical to say that a person who gets that seat, got it because she/he is black, this is a “cut off” criterion that prevents members of other races from applying. No? There is nothing wrong with admitting it, and I don’t understand why people are so madly defensive and aggressive because of it. I am not against levelling-off the field, however, I think there is a better criterion, it is the economic status of the applicant, not a race. Let’s say t
  11. "It's well correlated with MMI performance" I read a study about CASPER called "Extending the interview to all medical school candidates--Computer-Based Multiple Sample Evaluation of Noncognitive Skills (CMSENS)", so they found that the correlation b/w CASPER results and MMI performance is 0.51 (an article calls it a 'mild correlation'). Also, CASPEr can be a predictor of future test results and not on-the-job behaviour. These are actually very reasonable findings because if someone is lying on CASPer, he/she will lie on MMI too. I can't imagine a situation when CASPer results drastically
  12. "Black applicants (even those who are privileged in other ways, e.g. by way of gender or socioeconomic status) face systemic barriers to academic success such that actually, a lower GPA does not represent less intelligence or less suitability for a career in medicine but rather the impact of systemic marginalization and racism. Therefore from an equity versus equality standpoint, accepting a lower GPA makes sense and is not actually indicative of accepting someone less qualified" This is not about accepting less or more qualified, the GPA above 3.7 means the person is pretty smart, so th
  13. FingersCrossedPls, just looked at your previous posts. You are scolding people left and right. Who made you the thought and the speech police here? Just move on, seriously.
  14. I don’t understand why people deny that being black or indigenous with an above-average GPA is a straight ticket to med school. The objective statistics data overwhelmingly support this. Besides, many cheer when med schools implement ‘equity’ measures to help disadvantaged. But at the same time, the same people keep denying that race is a huge positive factor in the admission process. You can’t play both ways. You want equity measures, then own it, agree that your race is what got you accepted.
  15. I listened to the Sam Harris podcast with a guy (white) who graduated from Harvard. He was admitted before the affirmative action (AA), which was introduced while he was a students. So, in the podcast he says that before the AA when he saw a black student in Harvard, he (and everyone else) thought "this guy must be much smarter than me", but after the AA was implemented, he (and everyone else) thought "this guy got in because of his race". This stigma stuck with the following generations of black students. The only beneficiary of these moves are the med schools and their directors, who th
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