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Hey everyone! I'm in my 5th and final year at Carleton studying HBSc. Neuroscience and Mental Health. I'll be graduating this year with a 3.2-3.3 gpa. I was looking into doing a second undergrad degree that will last 2 years. I've applied to UTSC health policy but I'm also looking for some other programs that will last the 2 years and would be a bit easier to get a good gpa in, please let me know of any suggestions. Thanks in advance!!
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I started university straight out of high school. I did 2.5 years before being kicked out. My poor academic performance was due to a variety of reasons including trauma and mental illness. I took some time off and I went back to school in the 2020/2021 academic year. I'm currently doing well academically and personally. I'm halfway through my degree. I calculated my gpa using the OMSAS scale: Year 1 - 2.60 (30 credits) Year 2 - 2.05 (22 credits) Year 3 - 0.7 (12 credits) 2020/2021 - 3.96 (30 credits) I've never taken the MCAT but I've done some basic science courses. I know that medical school admissions are extremely competitive in Canada and my GPA is low. Is there a realistic chance that I could get accepted into a Canadian med school? I know that Queens and Western could be options for me due to their 2 year gpa policies. Are there other medical schools with similar GPA policies? I am not from Ontario and med school in my home province is not an option due to my marks. I know that some schools allow applicants to provide an explanation for poor academic performance. Are there any med schools which are known to give this a lot of weight? I do have compelling reasons to explain my poor academic performance but I don't know if they would be enough to make up for 2.5 years of bad marks. I am also worried that disclosing my trauma and mental illness could backfire. Is there a realistic chance that I could get into a US MD or DO med school with a decent MCAT score? For reference, I'm a Canadian citizen. I have some work experience and some volunteering but my extracurriculars are nothing special. I don't have any clinical experience. Does anyone have suggestions for extracurriculars I could do to improve my application? Thanks. -
Hi everyone, So I'm finishing up my BBA with no science courses under my belt (I decided on medicine late in the game, during my 4th year). I really wasn't planning on applying to further schooling, much less switching to medicine so my grades weren't a huge priority to me and I didn't do so hot. My biggest concern is that with a low GPA, my application might not even get looked at, even if I do well on the MCAT and get some good extracurricular experience. My averages by year are: 1 - 3.76 2 - 3.28 3 - 3.42 4 - 3.09 5 - 3.95 (estimated) Cumulative: 3.50 Average of best two years: 3.86 I'm enrolled to complete some science classes part time at Western this fall so I can cast a wide net with schools. However, I'm thinking it might make sense to nix this plan and pursue another degree, full-time. I'm not sure if this should be a masters, undergrad, or some other type of schooling. I read somewhere on a post here that the only way to undo a bad undergrad GPA is with more undergrad. How much truth is there to this? I'm not opposed to doing another undergrad if I have to, I want to do this the right way and be a competitive applicant once I do get to the application stage. If I do decide to do a second undergrad (in a science-based field), does the 3/5 rule for Western still apply? Keep in mind I have 0 science pre-reqs. If the 3/5 rule applies, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get my pre-reqs (cater to schools who require them) while also taking 60% upper year courses for Western. Where do I go from here? Graduate program? Second undergrad? None of the above? For reference, I'm from Ontario and looking to stay in Canada (ideally Ontario) for both the degree in question and med school. Thanks in advance! -
Hello everyone, I am currently a Master's student in a research-based program at UofT. This will be my first time applying to medical school (as well as a few MD/PhD programs), and I am hoping to hit most of the Ontario schools and McGill. I would love and appreciate some honest (but maybe hopeful) advice as an applicant for this upcoming cycle. I was born and raised in rural Ontario, but I went to do my undergraduate degree at UofCalgary, which in hindsight, has not benefitted me at all. Their grading system was awful (my already-low GPA drops a bit after OMSAS conversion I believe), and I do not meet the minimum statistics for their OOP applicant eligibility. What is holding me back is my low GPA. My cGPA (not converted to OMSAS) is: 3.434 and this is the yearly breakdown: 2.860, 3.464, 3.570, and 3.840. My MCAT is a 510: 128/126/128/128. I have taken full course loads each year, and I even over-loaded in my second year each semester. To be completely honest, undergrad was an extremely traumatic time for me. Especially in the first two years, I had a lot of family issues, personal issues, and issues with a supervisor that really lowered my self-esteem and put me into a deep and dark depression. My only instinct at that point in undergrad was not to think ahead and to pursue my goals like my peers, but just to survive. How do I get through this degree was something I was thinking every single day. I did not want to transfer closer to home because I felt like I was giving up, and I wanted to kick depression in the ass. Of course, I will write an AEE to explain these circumstances. My ECs are decently diverse. I have loads of research experience, attended conferences, won a few awards, leadership experience for long years (student-run committees, national-level committees, scholarship committees), volunteering experience (hospitals, etc. Most got cancelled with COVID-19 since I moved from Calgary), industry case competitions, scientific communications-related ECs (I'm a regular show host on a podcast, started a scicomm blog, on sci comm committees, a lot of outreach stuff), involved in athletics at my institution to name some general ones. I really wrestled with the idea that I wanted to pursue medicine. It was something I've always wanted to do and I can see myself doing, but I always told myself to stop dreaming about it because of my low GPA. I explored research, industry, other professions, but my heart always comes back to medicine. I want to be able to take this opportunity and make myself "competitive" as an applicant despite my low stats. I truly believe that I am doing well as a graduate student, but it definitely is upsetting that my future seems to be so reliant on some of my darkest years when i was 17-21. If anyone has any thoughts, advice, or comments, please let me know. I appreciate everything!! -
Hello! I have BSc and a Master’s major in Biology. Science heavy but my WES undergrad GPA 2.4 and they deleted my whole first year (according to Canadian grading system so they deleted my first year UG) I actually thought my 1st year was high cos I was one of those top students, and then family problems and my grades went downhill. Anyway, my grad school was science-heavy as well and with thesis - 3.9 GPA and best thesis. WES Evaluation is I have 3 year Bachelor's and Master's degree. I think my EC’s are quite good. Any advice on how to boost my GPA? Should I do Special Master's Program? I'm mostly interested to Canadian Med School. Thank you, I appreciate your input. -
Hey y'all, I have recently found the desire to pursue medicine in my mid-20s, I am currently an Emergency Department RN and working in this setting, seeing what Physicians do an their expanded scope of practise has given me a strong desire to pursue a career in medicine. However, during my undergrad I was not focused on this, I had a full time job as well as the demands of nursing school so my cGPA was around a 3.38 (Best two years were not great either, did not break 3.6). So that being said I have been considering a second degree, however I don't want to do a degree just for the sake of it because I know my heart won't be in it. I am currently applying for Physician Assistant (I had gotten admission in the past but was unable to attend due to financial difficulties at that time) and I am wondering if I do well in the program, will I be in good standing for medical school in Ontario? Any guidance and feedback would be appreciated. For those interested, why PA? Well it follows the medical model and the education pathway is more attractive to me vs the NP route, as well, if I never get in to Medicine, I can see myself being happy as a PA. I work with both NPs and Pas so seeing the nuances of their practise and opportunities really informed my decision. -
Hi everybody, So I'm in my last semester of my BBA undergrad and I've decided to switch to medicine. I'm looking at Ontario med schools in particular. I didn't take any science classes during my degree so I'm going back in the fall to get the right prerequisites. (bonus function of these courses: my GPA is a 3.6 or [9.7 on 12 pt. scale] and this could be a way to focus on my grades and boost it) I've got my humanities credits covered with econ, languages, and other random electives but I have about 6-8 science courses I'll need (depending on if they're lab based or not) and some of them are prerequisites for one another. (ex. I'll need an organic chem credit, which requires Intro Chem 2, which requires Intro Chem 1). This isn't a big deal for me, I could focus on my MCAT studying or strengthening extracurriculars during this time. I think I'll need at least 3 semesters to complete the credits I need. What I'm concerned about is that some med schools want to see a full course load of 5 classes/semester and two full semesters per year (ex. Western for their GPA calculation). I'd rather not spend too much time with electives that aren't going to give me the pre-reqs I need but I also don't want to rush difficult science classes (like biochem, org chem, etc.) at the same time and let my GPA fall any more. Is there a creative way to work around these variables? Maybe there's a compromise I can get away with? Or am I just going to have to buckle down and take a full two years, electives and all? Thank you!! -Aaron
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Good day, I hope everyone is doing well. So I have asked about this in another Forum (under the similar username of this Premed101 account) and did get some positive replies from medical students and current undergraduate students. But I'm still facing the dilemma, so someone told me to post here in Premed101 to get more responses in order to make my decision. Please if you can take some time out and help me decide I'll be very grateful. I'm a 25y/o from Ontario, I dropped out of high school in my late teens due to personal problems and depression, then at the age of 21 I decided to go back to high school and finish off my Grade 12 courses. Then after almost 2 years of study I graduated with an overall of 87% in the OSSD. Upon graduating high school at 23 years old I went through a monetary crisis which led me to depression again, in addition I was very stressed with anxiety. I also procrastinated my undergrad application deadlines because I wasn't feeling well. Now, just recently after psychological counselling sessions I feel a slightly bit mentally prepared. But the problem is I hardly remember the things that I have learned in Grade 12 Physics and Chemistry. During that time I was mentally stressed being the oldest one in school but still managed to finish the high school courses by cramming. However the Grade 12 Biology, Calculus and Advanced Functions, I remember studying those. Hence I kind of remember the course materials of Grade 12 Biology, Calculus and Advanced Functions but not the ones that I crammed the Grade 12 Physics and Chemistry. I also didn't make any notes when doing the high school courses, I mainly bought a couple of textbooks by McGraw Hill and Nelson, did the practice questions and that it. And also another reason beside cramming , I had a 2 year study gap after graduating high school when I was depressed and felt drained out. There are still some Ontario universities and some Out of Province Universities that are still accepting students for undergraduate Fall 2020 entry since most University classes will be taken entirely online. Would it be better if I start my undergraduate this Fall 2020 (BSc in Biology or Biomedical Science) in OOP schools like University of Saskatchewan or other universities) without having any sort of preparation, because I feel that I have forgotten most of what I learned or crammed almost 2 years ago when I graduated high school at 23. Or is it going to be better if I start school in Winter 2021 and in the meantime in-between September to December I get prepared by making notes on each Grade 12 Courses that I previously completed. (Because before I didn't make any notes when studying for the grade 12 courses, as I said earlier I only read textbooks and did practice questions, I also crammed most of Grade 12 Physics and Chemistry). Is this a viable option? There are some huge cons of starting school in January 2021 which is I won't be accountable for wGPA and Full Course Load Med School application systems (I'm very sorry, I have little knowledge about this). Would it be a great disadvantage if I start school in Winter session? Is there anybody here that started their undergrad in January or Winter session in the pre-med track or got into medical school ? I'm just worried if I'll do very poorly in my 1st year because coming from a 2 year gap then there were some courses I crammed, I feel really guilty about this and regret it. I think if I had atleast 2/3 months of self preparation before starting the undergrad, I think I would have been able to relearn and recollect everything. But now if I start in Fall 2020 I have about 2 weeks left and if I start in January 2021 I can use the time to write notes on Grade 12 courses and relearn everything that I forgot. Please help me decide, what would you have done if you were in my situation? I really don't know who to talk to about this, I'm very much stressing out. I'm very sorry if I was being too repetitive in my description but I'm currently going through a lot of stress regarding this. Thank you very much for taking your valuable time to read through this, I will really appreciate all of your replies and suggestions. I need to make this decision in a few days, so Please help me out. -
Good day, I hope everyone is doing well. So I have asked about this in another Forum (under the similar username of this Premed101 account) and did get some positive replies from medical students and current undergraduate students. But I'm still facing the dilemma, so someone told me to post here in Premed101 to get more responses in order to make my decision. Please if you can take some time out and help me decide I'll be very grateful. I'm a 25y/o from Ontario, I dropped out of high school in my late teens due to personal problems and depression, then at the age of 21 I decided to go back to high school and finish off my Grade 12 courses. Then after almost 2 years of study I graduated with an overall of 87% in the OSSD. Upon graduating high school at 23 years old I went through a monetary crisis which led me to depression again, in addition I was very stressed with anxiety. I also procrastinated my undergrad application deadlines because I wasn't feeling well. Now, just recently after psychological counselling sessions I feel a slightly bit mentally prepared. But the problem is I hardly remember the things that I have learned in Grade 12 Physics and Chemistry. During that time I was mentally stressed being the oldest one in school but still managed to finish the high school courses by cramming. However the Grade 12 Biology, Calculus and Advanced Functions, I remember studying those. Hence I kind of remember the course materials of Grade 12 Biology, Calculus and Advanced Functions but not the ones that I crammed the Grade 12 Physics and Chemistry. I also didn't make any notes when doing the high school courses, I mainly bought a couple of textbooks by McGraw Hill and Nelson, did the practice questions and that it. And also another reason beside cramming , I had a 2 year study gap after graduating high school when I was depressed and felt drained out. There are still some Ontario universities and some Out of Province Universities that are still accepting students for undergraduate Fall 2020 entry since most University classes will be taken entirely online. Would it be better if I start my undergraduate this Fall 2020 (BSc in Biology or Biomedical Science) in OOP schools like University of Saskatchewan or other universities) without having any sort of preparation, because I feel that I have forgotten most of what I learned or crammed almost 2 years ago when I graduated high school at 23. Or is it going to be better if I start school in Winter 2021 and in the meantime in-between September to December I get prepared by making notes on each Grade 12 Courses that I previously completed. (Because before I didn't make any notes when studying for the grade 12 courses, as I said earlier I only read textbooks and did practice questions, I also crammed most of Grade 12 Physics and Chemistry). Is this a viable option? There are some huge cons of starting school in January 2021 which is I won't be accountable for wGPA and Full Course Load Med School application systems (I'm very sorry, I have little knowledge about this). Would it be a great disadvantage if I start school in Winter session? Is there anybody here that started their undergrad in January or Winter session in the pre-med track or got into medical school ? I'm just worried if I'll do very poorly in my 1st year because coming from a 2 year gap then there were some courses I crammed, I feel really guilty about this and regret it. I think if I had atleast 2/3 months of self preparation before starting the undergrad, I think I would have been able to relearn and recollect everything. But now if I start in Fall 2020 I have about 2 weeks left and if I start in January 2021 I can use the time to write notes on Grade 12 courses and relearn everything that I forgot. Please help me decide, what would you have done if you were in my situation? I really don't know who to talk to about this, I'm very much stressing out. I'm very sorry if I was being too repetitive in my description but I'm currently going through a lot of stress regarding this. Thank you very much for taking your valuable time to read through this, I will really appreciate all of your replies and suggestions. I need to make this decision in a few days, so Please help me out.
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Hello, on the McGill site it states that you can be admitted on the basis of your second degree GPA if you have completed 45 credits by the Nov 1 deadline. Say I start a 2 year after degree this September. How would I be able to meet the 45 credits by Nov of next year? (nov 2021?) Thanks Policy: https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/requirements/requirements-edu/degree-requirements -
TL;DR: Addiction fxcked my undergraduate degree making my 4yr degree an 8 yr one. I have a decent 2yr gpa (3.88). Is it even worth it to apply to Western and Queens? Before I begin, I want to make it clear that I'm not looking for anyone's sympathy. I just want guidance on how to move forwards! I started my undergraduate degree in 2012. I had a 3.0ish cGPA (I was not thinking about applying to med school at this time) going into my spring semester of 3rd year when I developed a drug addiction. I ended up ruining my aGPA for the year. I failed even further in 4th year (<2.0 cgpa). I ended up abandoning my degree in 5th year by October leaving me with a very low cGPA (<2.0) as I didn't have the wherewithal to drop out of my classes (yikes). Thankfully, my family got me the help I needed soon after and I'm happy to say I've been sober since December of 2017 (not yikes). After a lot of reflecting, I made it my goal to complete my degree, and reenrolled in Sept of 2018. I've now graduated and my 2yr GPA is a 3.88 (not yikes)! I want to apply to schools that look at 2yr GPAs (Western and Queens) but I'm worried that the admissions committees won't take too kindly to how long it took for me to complete my degree. Should I apply during the upcoming cycle or should I do a 2nd degree? If anyone has interviewed and/or received an offer of admissions with a lengthy undergard degree please let me know! Thank you in advanced! -
Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right spot, but I'm currently entering my third year at Western and have only now realized I really want to pursue medicine. That said, my first two years were pretty bad, and I'm not sure what to do or how to improve my chances. I have pretty solid extracurriculars and work experience, so my main concern is having a GPA that's competitive enough for an interview, because I was uninformed and didn't realize that GPA was king and I focused so heavily on bolstering my non-academics. My first semester of first year wasn't bad (I had a 3.9)– it was my second semester that tanked because of a 56 in physics 2. Then, the summer after first year, I decided to try and fast-track but due to personal reasons, I also tanked those courses, obtaining a 56 and 64 in the two 0.5 credit classes I took. Upon entering second year, I retook one of the summer courses and physics 2, getting a new grade of 76 in the summer course (it was orgo so definitely not my strong suit), and getting a 92 when I took physics 2 again. I've been super confused with how each different med school in Canada calculates their respective adjusted GPAs (if applicable), but so far my first year GPA including the 56 in physics is a 3.44 on the 4.0 OMSAS scale (would be a 3.71 without physics). Those two second year courses I took in the summer after first year have also tanked my GPA, but I'm not sure if they'd be considered part of my first year or second year GPA (if someone could help me out with this I would appreciate it). I took a full 5.0 courses in first year, and in second year, I took 5.0 courses as well (but repeated 2 half courses). I'll give a summary/breakdown here: Year 1 GPA: 3.44 (with physics), 3.71 (without) Year 1 SUMMER GPA: 1.65 (not sure if this is separate or gets tacked on to the GPA of a full year) Year 2 GPA: 3.53 (did pretty bad first semester due to personal issues that continued from the summer, but I had managed to 3.9 second semester after working on tackling my personal issues) What's clear here is that my current grades and GPA are not by any means competitive for medical school, or even close to many cutoff requirements. However, given that I started university with the necessary grades and made improvements after getting hit with personal issues, I know I have the capability of obtaining 3.85 to 4.0 in each of the next three years (I am planning on doing a fifth year to raise my cGPA). I've learned that many medical schools are not so forgiving of hiccups like mine, and my main worry is that the 3 terrible courses I've mentioned might really ruin my chances at med, because a majority of my other courses were 80s and 90s with few high 70s. I know I still have a shot at Western med, but I'm not too sure about other med schools. I'm also willing to take 1.5 courses for each of the next two summers if necessary to raise my GPA and/or overload during the year. At this point I've considered a sixth year or a second undergrad, because I know I want med and I know I can get the grades in the NEXT three years, but I really messed up the first two. I have not written the MCAT yet (currently studying for it), but my main concern is meeting GPA cutoffs with my first two years dragging me down. If anyone has insight on what to do in this situation, or strategies to get my GPA up to a competitive level (ex: second undergrad or master's), or info on schools I might be eligible for, please let me know.
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Hey all, I am a non-science major seeking some advice/opinions about my current situation about increasing my chances in getting into medical school. I originally graduated with a BA in Psychology and Visual Art, and did some soul searching after that. I recently went back to uni in the Fall 2019, and I am currently enrolled in a BA Honours Psychology program. I'm taking extra courses to upgrade my former GPA of 3.0. I know its not great, but coming back as a mature student (I'm 27 years old), I know what direction I want to take in my life. I've also been volunteering at my local hospital for nearly 3 years and for hospice centres for about 1 year with medical school in mind. I'm not sure how to pick up my academic record though. I've been told that the best thing for me to do is another undergrad degree or a masters degree, but I'm not sure if doing that is feasible. Another option I have is going overseas, but I do not want to risk not having opportunities here down the road. I also don't have any science pre-requisites, but I am considering starting by taking grade 12 science credits online in the next month, as a way to get into university level science courses in the Fall this year. That is my short-term plan so far. I would prefer to stay in Canada, but I feel like I have zero chances in getting into a Canadian medical school, even after upgrading my current academic record. I hear that it is easier to get into medical school in USA, but I am aware it is very expensive, which I do not have the funds for (but I'm still considering my chances). Is anyone aware of any programs or routs I should consider for boosting my GPA, other than starting all over with a new degree? Also, has anyone with a non-science background had success in getting into medical school in Canada or at least in USA? I appreciate any constructive feedback, but I ask kindly not to be rude or make fun of my previous life choices that affected my low GPA. I've been seeing that quite a bit on these forums and I don't think its helpful or fair to anyone. Thanks :)
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Hey everyone! I recently graduated from a nursing program in Ontario and have decided that I want to write the MCAT this August. The problem is that my nursing program barely covered any of the prerequisite courses that are important for the MCAT - I have two sems of psych/soc, one sem of human biochemistry, and perhaps some physiology- and microbiology-related stuff covered by a couple of my other classes. But I have zero chem, organic chem and physics prereqs. I really can’t afford to take these courses and am hoping I can self study this info with Khan Academy and Kaplan. Just wondering if anyone has done something similar or has any advice for going this route? Thanks in advance!
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Hi Everyone, In brief, I am a PhD student studying medicine in Canada. My biggest hurdle as I apply to medical schools is most definitely my GPA. >undergrad GPA: 2.8 >graduate GPA: 3.9 (Though this is a thesis-based degree, I have taken a course (or two) every single semester over my 5 year PhD) [Based off of this year's entry statistics for almost all Canadian and US schools, my MCAT score is competitive. I have hundreds of hours of extracurricular activities ranging from volunteering, community service, student groups, leadership, etc. I have 100+ hours of shadowing in different clinics/services. 10+ pubs in mid-high tier journals (4 first author), various long-term employment experiences, etc etc.] At this time, it seems very unlikely that I'll make it past the GPA cutoffs for all Canadian schools based off of conversations with advisers, weighted GPA calculations, etc. This has pushed me to look in the direction of US schools. Are there any US MD schools (not DO) that look favorably to PhD students? And a step-further: Canadian PhD students? I have zero intention of changing my career path, so I have also entertained the idea of EU or AUS schools, though I am very aware of the obstacles, costs, and residency challenges associated. Eager to gather some input from this forum! Some guidance would be appreciated. -
I'm going into grade 12 next year and I have the possibility of becoming an EU student. I was thinking of going to a university in the EU (France, Ireland, or Germany) so that I can save a lot of money on tuition. Plus in Ireland undergrad degrees are only 3 years so I could take a gap year without feeling like I "missed out" (which isn't really something I feel anyways). I was wondering if this would harm my chances of getting into a medical school in Canada? I am an Ontario resident and my place of residency would mostly likely not change due to healthcare (I am type 1 diabetic and probably won't transfer my doctors over to wherever I am studying). Would I still be able to apply to Canadian schools as a Canadian resident or would I be considered an international applicant? Thank you.
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Self MCAT prep as non-trad???
GabriellaGE posted a topic in Non-Traditional Applicants/Grad Students
Sorry if I’m not supposed to post here! My UG is Psychology and my schools of interest don’t require prerequisites, has anyone been in a similar situation and self studied for the MCAT? how long did you give yourself? Did you study while in school? TIA
