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How much do EM physicians make in ON/BC on avg?


lenitehawk
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I am interested in how much EM docs make in ON/BC. Obviously, there will be significant variability depending on the payment structure (FFS vs. salary), but if someone can shed how much the typical ER doc makes, that would be great. I have asked various docs about it and most are quite coy on giving me a solid answer. 

I found this link for Ontario: https://emlondon.ca/emergency-ohip-fee-codes

but I am having a hard time applying this to a regular shift x 12-14 shifts per month x 12 per year. 

Do they make >300 an hour? More than 350k per year? More than 400k? 

Thanks!

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I think that FRCPC EM and FM +1 ER doctors bill the same in Ontario. 

I am not sure that you will make more as a outpatient clinic FM physician, as you do have 20-30% overhead, whereas in ER, you have no overhead. 

However, the ER work could get challenging when you have to constant do night-evening shifts. Some FM +1 ER doctors or full time FM ER physicians will tend to take more day shifts with more seniority, and start to do some office outpatient FM work. 

For FRCPC in academic hospitals, I heard that some staff will take on more research, teaching or administrative work trading for less shifts. 

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It really depends where you work. In general, academic sites in large cities pay less than community sites. It also depends on the remuneration model: strictly salary vs. blended AFA (base hourly rate plus % of shadow billings) vs. fee-for-service exclusive.

Health Match BC has listings for open ER positions. https://www.healthmatchbc.org/Jobs-in-BC/Find-a-Job?RegionIds=&ProfessionId=1&SpecialityId=10&SubSpecialityId=0&PositionTypeIds=1,2,3&CommunityId=&SearchPage=0&Show=list

Salary is listed for some.

On 8/19/2018 at 8:10 PM, LittleDaisy said:

I think that FRCPC EM and FM +1 ER doctors bill the same in Ontario. 

I am not sure that you will make more as a outpatient clinic FM physician, as you do have 20-30% overhead, whereas in ER, you have no overhead. 

However, the ER work could get challenging when you have to constant do night-evening shifts. Some FM +1 ER doctors or full time FM ER physicians will tend to take more day shifts with more seniority, and start to do some office outpatient FM work. 

For FRCPC in academic hospitals, I heard that some staff will take on more research, teaching or administrative work trading for less shifts. 

Most places I know, seniority does not dictate who does days-evenings-nights. Everyone does their fair share and complement of shifts. Obviously, the younger guys will love to pick up weekends and nights because they pay better, usually do not have other commitments like family and kids, and they can handle the physical demands of nights (not saying old docs can't, but I'm sure if an old doc had to choose day vs night, most would choose day).

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23 hours ago, hkmedic said:

It really depends where you work. In general, academic sites in large cities pay less than community sites. It also depends on the remuneration model: strictly salary vs. blended AFA (base hourly rate plus % of shadow billings) vs. fee-for-service exclusive.

Health Match BC has listings for open ER positions. https://www.healthmatchbc.org/Jobs-in-BC/Find-a-Job?RegionIds=&ProfessionId=1&SpecialityId=10&SubSpecialityId=0&PositionTypeIds=1,2,3&CommunityId=&SearchPage=0&Show=list

Salary is listed for some.

Most places I know, seniority does not dictate who does days-evenings-nights. Everyone does their fair share and complement of shifts. Obviously, the younger guys will love to pick up weekends and nights because they pay better, usually do not have other commitments like family and kids, and they can handle the physical demands of nights (not saying old docs can't, but I'm sure if an old doc had to choose day vs night, most would choose day).

Academic ER does pay less than community hospitals. But the major trauma centers are usually purely academic, I guess that it's the financial sacrifices you make for doing something you love and teach medical students & residents. 

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45 minutes ago, F508 said:

Why would academic ERs pay less? Because cases are more complex? Because learners slow you down?

Academic EM docs get salaried vs fee for service I think. This way all EM docs at the centre will make roughly the same $$, even if some decide to spend more time doing research/admin work than take clinical shifts. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/24/2018 at 10:28 AM, gangliocytoma said:

Academic EM docs get salaried vs fee for service I think. This way all EM docs at the centre will make roughly the same $$, even if some decide to spend more time doing research/admin work than take clinical shifts. 

They do get paid fee for service, but they pool their money together, so everyone ends up getting paid the same. At the end of day, there needs to be academic ER physicians being the PD, site PD, doing research, teaching medical students & residents, administrative work. 

When you have senior ER residents with you, they actually help you to empty the ED with minimal supervision, and you end up billing double the amount of patients that you would have seen during one shift. 

I am not sure that the hours are more <<chill>> as academic ER physicians, research takes equal amount of time as clinical work, and sometimes even more time consuming. You do have to prepare when teaching medical students & residents, and take the time to collect all the feedback when giving evaluations. 

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On 9/3/2018 at 8:33 PM, LittleDaisy said:

They do get paid fee for service, but they pool their money together, so everyone ends up getting paid the same. At the end of day, there needs to be academic ER physicians being the PD, site PD, doing research, teaching medical students & residents, administrative work. 

When you have senior ER residents with you, they actually help you to empty the ED with minimal supervision, and you end up billing double the amount of patients that you would have seen during one shift. 

I am not sure that the hours are more <<chill>> as academic ER physicians, research takes equal amount of time as clinical work, and sometimes even more time consuming. You do have to prepare when teaching medical students & residents, and take the time to collect all the feedback when giving evaluations. 

I meant chill in the sense that research/teaching/admin is more 9-5, you actually get a lunch break, etc. compared to a typical ER shift where you might be running around with fewer breaks, overnight/odd hours, doing procedures, at least if you are in a busy centre (most community centres). It might be the same number of hours (or even less) but way more physically exhausting.

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