Premed - Western vs McMaster

[Fady2002]

Guys, please take a minute to answer this poll.

And yes, I know this has probably been asked many times, but there were so many different opinions that I thought I'd start a new topic for this and see how it goes.

[VigoVirgo]

Why even make this poll? Just study something you like, do well in it, and oh wow look at that you'll probably have a good GPA!

[NeuroD]

3 hours ago, VigoVirgo said:

Why even make this poll? Just study something you like, do well in it, and oh wow look at that you'll probably have a good GPA!

While that's the ideal, it isn't really true. First, it's hard to know what you'll actually like. Second, there's no reason it will lead to a good GPA.

[Intrepid86]

1. The only people who can answer this question are those who did both programs. Even then their answer would be subjective and anecdotal. 

2. Whether a specific program prepares students well or not is also entirely a matter of personal opinion. You don't even have to do a science program to feel ready. The formation of good study habits, discipline and effective test taking are independent of what you actually study.

3. The program itself doesn't matter for the purposes of admissions. Some will say that a large percentage of students from X program go to medical school, but those people were probably good enough and would have gotten in regardless of what program they actually did.

[hartk48]

40 minutes ago, Intrepid86 said:

1. The only people who can answer this question are those who did both programs. Even then their answer would be subjective and anecdotal. 

2. Whether a specific program prepares students well or not is also entirely a matter of personal opinion. You don't even have to do a science program to feel ready. The formation of good study habits, discipline and effective test taking are independent of what you actually study.

3. The program itself doesn't matter for the purposes of admissions. Some will say that a large percentage of students from X program go to medical school, but those people were probably good enough and would have gotten in regardless of what program they actually did.

Nailed it. Its sort of like what came first, the chicken or the egg? Since demand is high for these programs (for some reason....) they can choose the "best" candidates, which would have most likely gotten in to med school regardless of the program. 

[Fady2002]

6 hours ago, Intrepid86 said:

1. The only people who can answer this question are those who did both programs. Even then their answer would be subjective and anecdotal. 

2. Whether a specific program prepares students well or not is also entirely a matter of personal opinion. You don't even have to do a science program to feel ready. The formation of good study habits, discipline and effective test taking are independent of what you actually study.

3. The program itself doesn't matter for the purposes of admissions. Some will say that a large percentage of students from X program go to medical school, but those people were probably good enough and would have gotten in regardless of what program they actually did.

Thanks for the reply!

I just wanted to clarify because, statistically speaking, I've heard that way more McMaster health science students make it to med school, and that's because it's geared more towards premed students, and apparently it has some kind of grade inflation or something? 

But yeah, I completely understand what you mean though.

[Fady2002]

6 hours ago, hartk48 said:

Nailed it. Its sort of like what came first, the chicken or the egg? Since demand is high for these programs (for some reason....) they can choose the "best" candidates, which would have most likely gotten in to med school regardless of the program. 

Yeah, fair enough. I get your point

 

Thank you for replying anyways! 

[asdasdasd]

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[Edict]

Mac Health Sci without a shadow of a doubt. Mac Med takes easily 1/4th of their class from Health Sci, UofT takes 1/5th of their class from Health Sci. and the other med schools all take a significant number of health scis. The numbers are so high that Mac is the most represented undergrad at both Mac and UofT Med. 

[indefatigable]

8 hours ago, Intrepid86 said:

3. The program itself doesn't matter for the purposes of admissions. Some will say that a large percentage of students from X program go to medical school, but those people were probably good enough and would have gotten in regardless of what program they actually did.

Mac Health Sci has been debated over and over - but to me this argument doesn't work.  I think getting in the program itself is a large part of success - for a variety of reasons including a proven undergrad culture which really does foster qualities and attributes that help with getting into med school.  The supplemental used to gain entry to Mac Health Sci is somewhat arbitrary (and probably not always an individual effort) so given the huge number of applicants this would mean that pretty much all people that eventually go to med school applied to MacHealth Sci (with 90%+ HS averages) since I think there's a degree of exchangeability between the top x applicants and the next set of applicants after them.  Here's another thread on the topic which includes responses by someone who was in the program.

http://forums.premed101.com/topic/91972-bhsc-statistics/

[asdasdasd]

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[indefatigable]

23 minutes ago, KeyzerSoze said:

I am genuinely curious and would appreciate an answer: how are so many health sci students so good at CASPer and CARS? I mean sure they might have grade inflation, but are they really taught these intangibles?

Developing and enhancing soft skills (including communication, interpersonal and teamwork) seems to be a big part of the program which would be a boost on a test like CASPer.  Scenes I've seen include situations like group-work for example, which would be pretty easy to answer if you're exposed to that everyday - as opposed to lectures in big classrooms.  Speaking in small groups frequently is part of the education, which isn't the traditional pedagogical structure - that would help with being able to articulate ideas and viewpoints.  

With respect to CARS, there's lots of success stories on this forum of people boosting their scores with work and time - no reason Health Sci students couldn't do the same.    

[rmorelan]

20 minutes ago, KeyzerSoze said:

I am genuinely curious and would appreciate an answer: how are so many health sci students so good at CASPer and CARS? I mean sure they might have grade inflation, but are they really taught these intangibles?

Good question I have suspected for awhile that a health science degree in general is better preparation for CASPer than many other more standard degree just because it explores more of the issues involved and invites self exploration. As tere mentioned the groups problem solving and teaching approach also is very useful for indirectly for prep.

[asdasdasd]

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[CardiacArrhythmia]

2 hours ago, KeyzerSoze said:

Therein lies the real advantage of Health Sci I think. Being able to hone and develop interpersonal skills that really show in your essays and interviews. I'm at Western Med Sci and everyone here keeps to their small friend group, there's zero sense of "we're all in this together" in the program, and we certainly aren't taught any soft skills in our courses, which means we're left to navigate essays and CASPer all on our own. Sure I have good grades, but every EC I have I've had to actively seek out on my own, and I have no idea how I'll do on CASPer, and I have no idea how I did on my essays, and I've never had any opportunity to develop my interview skills (which I'm sure are below par). It's impossible to say health sci doesn't offer some kind of benefit.

Let’s not forget where CASPer was founded and formulated from...

[indefatigable]

22 hours ago, KeyzerSoze said:

Therein lies the real advantage of Health Sci I think. Being able to hone and develop interpersonal skills that really show in your essays and interviews. I'm at Western Med Sci and everyone here keeps to their small friend group, there's zero sense of "we're all in this together" in the program, and we certainly aren't taught any soft skills in our courses, which means we're left to navigate essays and CASPer all on our own. Sure I have good grades, but every EC I have I've had to actively seek out on my own, and I have no idea how I'll do on CASPer, and I have no idea how I did on my essays, and I've never had any opportunity to develop my interview skills (which I'm sure are below par). It's impossible to say health sci doesn't offer some kind of benefit.

I wouldn't count yourself out - and there's always ways to seek out opportunities to improve.  Yeah Health Sci crowd may have an aggregrate edge, but they're not by far the only group who gets accepted to med school, even at Mac.  

20 hours ago, CardiacArrhythmia said:

Let’s not forget where CASPer was founded and formulated from...

That was my thinking