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2 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I am feeling really discouraged.

Literally feel like a lab rat continuously getting shocked, learned helplessness I believe is the psychology term (At least school teaches me something, lol). Midterms I have improved upon, and my studying habits have become more efficient, but the LABS literally kill me. And this is always the easy part for everyone else, everyone else is like oh yay lab worth 30 percent that's an easy 100. And for me it really isn't; only physiology labs. Cell Biology Labs I have done SO POORLY, SO BAD. And I don't even know what to do at this point. I would go to the TA ask for help and everything and he would look at me like I was asking stupid questions and just looking at how my lab is marked makes me so upset with myself. I have question marks upon question marks and it's just embarrassing, the physiology labs are fine; pretty straight forward. But Cell Biology and Organic; they have become so anxiety provoking; I get so scared to ask questions because I am just starting to think I am dimmer than others at this point. I don't know; sorry for the rant, just frustrated with myself at the moment; I want to rip out my brain and tell it to do better. The Cell Biology labs are worth 30%; and I have done so bad on 4 out of the 5. Like so bad. Like embarrassing bad.; I'll just expose myself (I got a 72 on the first one, 53 on the second one, 65 on the third one) each are worth 6 percent. So that's an average of 63 for 18 percent of my grade; that's equivalent to a midterms weight. I only have one more to go and the last one I don't even know at this point; no idea what to do. 

1. As a former TA, no questions are stupid questions - students tend to be imitated by their TA because they hold a lot of power and control over your mark, so students don't seek their help as often as they should since they think they'll annoy them, which leads to a false belief that they will drop your mark because of it. Your TA should be answering every question and guide/mentor you for you to ultimately come up with the final decision. They aren't obligated to make a decision for you, but it is within their role to help you understand something/give advice. 

2. The anxiety provoking part and lowered self-esteem worries me here. Seek counselling and/or peer support if you feel like it's becoming worse. Also, I will caution you regarding comparisons to others. Most premeds, in their early university stages, are always going to compare themselves to others due to the competitive nature of the field. As you go further in the process, you realize that the only thing you can control are your own actions. Do not think about others right now (ironically for a future physician), but focus on your own goals and actions, plan out your next steps and seek guidance (upper year mentor who is in the same program, MD student,  grad students, etc). Relax and It will work out - stay resilient.

3. How are you doing on the midterms mark wise? Are they significant higher than your lab average (~20-30%)? If it is the case, it may not be that you don't know the content of the course, but more so how to apply that content to reality. One thing undergraduate labs do poorly is relate the lab technique and the content you learn in the course - this is often due to the lack of communication between the course instructor and the lab coordinator. One thing you can do is talk to a peer prior to your lab session and see if you can go over the techniques being used in the lab, and what that cell/molecule/compound, etc that lab technique is being used to discover. Relate said discovery to your lecture notes and try to draw the connection; if you cannot do it yourself, your peer "study" group might be able to. 

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On 11/11/2018 at 1:32 AM, CardiacArrhythmia said:

1. As a former TA, no questions are stupid questions - students tend to be imitated by their TA because they hold a lot of power and control over your mark, so students don't seek their help as often as they should since they think they'll annoy them, which leads to a false belief that they will drop your mark because of it. Your TA should be answering every question and guide/mentor you for you to ultimately come up with the final decision. They aren't obligated to make a decision for you, but it is within their role to help you understand something/give advice. 

2. The anxiety provoking part and lowered self-esteem worries me here. Seek counselling and/or peer support if you feel like it's becoming worse. Also, I will caution you regarding comparisons to others. Most premeds, in their early university stages, are always going to compare themselves to others due to the competitive nature of the field. As you go further in the process, you realize that the only thing you can control are your own actions. Do not think about others right now (ironically for a future physician), but focus on your own goals and actions, plan out your next steps and seek guidance (upper year mentor who is in the same program, MD student,  grad students, etc). Relax and It will work out - stay resilient.

3. How are you doing on the midterms mark wise? Are they significant higher than your lab average (~20-30%)? If it is the case, it may not be that you don't know the content of the course, but more so how to apply that content to reality. One thing undergraduate labs do poorly is relate the lab technique and the content you learn in the course - this is often due to the lack of communication between the course instructor and the lab coordinator. One thing you can do is talk to a peer prior to your lab session and see if you can go over the techniques being used in the lab, and what that cell/molecule/compound, etc that lab technique is being used to discover. Relate said discovery to your lecture notes and try to draw the connection; if you cannot do it yourself, your peer "study" group might be able to. 

 

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Dude chill out. You sound miserable, even if you got into medicine it wouldn't change that.

Why are you taking all of these courses you are struggling in? If its not a prerequisite for med apps you don't need to take it. If its for your degree, then switch majors into something you are better at. Otherwise just stick it out and continue to try your best.

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On 11/11/2018 at 12:44 PM, freewheeler said:

Dude chill out. You sound miserable, even if you got into medicine it wouldn't change that.

Why are you taking all of these courses you are struggling in? If its not a prerequisite for med apps you don't need to take it. If its for your degree, then switch majors into something you are better at. Otherwise just stick it out and continue to try your best.

 

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8 minutes ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

 It is honestly very stressful, medical school would change in that I would know where I am going with life. The main thing that concerns me here is if I'm not good enough, I have no idea what I am going to do with my life. And computer science I 100% regret taking, but I stuck with it because I am so stubborn when I choose courses. And I know they're not prereq's but they're requirements for my major. Cell Biology I thought I would enjoy more as I enjoyed it last year; everything is has been pretty okay. I am trying to stick it out but I also want to be realistic. 

 

Nah, med school would just give you a new set of problems: adjusting to the workload/volume of information, new professional role, surrounded by Type A personalities, trying to develop clinical acumen and procedural skills, constant evaluations, BS mandatory learning events, adjusting to the unique expectations of each preceptor you work with, all the while trying to figure out what specialty to pursue and crafting a competitive application for it.

Medicine won't make you happy. "Pre-meds" in general, need to understand that.

If you regret taking it, why continue? There are no brownie points given for taking sh#t courses that you hate and are struggling in when the admissions committee reviews your file. 

At the end of the day: GPA >> MCAT > ECs.

From the little you've shared here, it sounds like you've already taken a lot of the reasonable first steps when trying to remediate the issue at hand with your lab performance. There may be a few other suggestions above that you haven't yet exhausted that you could try. Otherwise, there's not much else people on an online forum can do to help you, unless someone is willing to tutor you individually.

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On 11/11/2018 at 1:35 PM, freewheeler said:

Nah, med school would just give you a new set of problems: adjusting to the workload/volume of information, new professional role, surrounded by Type A personalities, trying to develop clinical acumen and procedural skills, constant evaluations, BS mandatory learning events, adjusting to the unique expectations of each preceptor you work with, all the while trying to figure out what specialty to pursue and crafting a competitive application for it.

Medicine won't make you happy. "Pre-meds" in general, need to understand that.

If you regret taking it, why continue? There are no brownie points given for taking sh#t courses that you hate and are struggling in when the admissions committee reviews your file. 

At the end of the day: GPA >> MCAT > ECs.

From the little you've shared here, it sounds like you've already taken a lot of the reasonable first steps when trying to remediate the issue at hand with your lab performance. There may be a few other suggestions above that you haven't yet exhausted that you could try. Otherwise, there's not much else people on an online forum can do to help you, unless someone is willing to tutor you individually.

 

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7 minutes ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

Wouldn't it make me happy in that I am doing something I enjoy? I honestly can see myself having fun memorizing things that save lives rather than the lac operon. The people are type A in pre-med as well, I am in a competitive university with the major that is useless without medicine; so everyone is trying to get into medicine. And computer science is done, I finished it. I wish I could take it off my transcript but I can't. 

I-I'll just shut up. I understand how annoying pre-meds must be, sorry. 

As someone who was in your shoes who is now in med school, I agree with freewheeler that getting into med school won't change a lot of the concerns you have and will add on some new challenges to deal with. There is plenty of rote memorization of plenty of dry/uninteresting material, plenty of gunners/hypercompetitive peers, plenty of stress from CaRMS not knowing if you'll match to residency at the end of it (let alone in a specialty/location you actually want). From the outside, it might seem like it's all smooth sailing once you're actually in, but in reality there's just a new set of problems to deal with. And you need to deal with these issues in the pressure-cooker environment of med school, making them all the more challenging. This isn't to say that there aren't good things about being in med school, because of course there are, but it's not the idyllic experience many premeds envision it to be. Getting in won't make you happy.

It sounds like you're really unhappy in undergrad. Is there anything you can think of to make yourself happier/make your undergrad experience more enjoyable? For example, it sounds like you feel some distress re: your lab courses. What kinds of courses do you like? What do you do well in? Try to identify what your academic strengths are and take more classes that play to those strengths, rather than brute-forcing your way through hard science classes that are uninteresting and unnecessarily stressful. For example, I spent my first 2 years miserable in hard science with very poor grades, then switched to humanities and my GPA shot up 0.3. Now that I'm in med school I am more disadvantaged than my peers with stronger science backgrounds, but it's nothing I (and my fellow humanities undergrads) haven't been able to overcome. It is so worth it to study something you enjoy and excel at.

It sounds like you have an all-or-nothing approach to medicine, and you're putting all your eggs in that basket, which makes the stakes a lot higher than they need to be. My other piece of advice is to think about careers outside of medicine- not because you can't get in, but because identifying other potential careers and pathways can help take some of the pressure off. What do you like about medicine and why do you want to be a doctor? There are so many careers that share many of the roles/responsibilities of doctors, both inside medicine (e.g. PA, nurse, respiratory therapy, speech and language pathology, dietics, etc) and outside of medicine (e.g. teaching, counselling, social work, engineering, etc). Think about what drives you to go into medicine and think of other options. Maybe nothing would make you *as happy* as medicine, but there are still many careers that would allow you to get satisfaction from your work and do meaningful things. You could bring your talents to so many different roles and help people in multiple contexts besides being a doctor.

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On 11/11/2018 at 2:20 PM, mew said:

As someone who was in your shoes who is now in med school, I agree with freewheeler that getting into med school won't change a lot of the concerns you have and will add on some new challenges to deal with. There is plenty of rote memorization of plenty of dry/uninteresting material, plenty of gunners/hypercompetitive peers, plenty of stress from CaRMS not knowing if you'll match to residency at the end of it (let alone in a specialty/location you actually want). From the outside, it might seem like it's all smooth sailing once you're actually in, but in reality there's just a new set of problems to deal with. And you need to deal with these issues in the pressure-cooker environment of med school, making them all the more challenging. This isn't to say that there aren't good things about being in med school, because of course there are, but it's not the idyllic experience many premeds envision it to be. Getting in won't make you happy.

It sounds like you're really unhappy in undergrad. Is there anything you can think of to make yourself happier/make your undergrad experience more enjoyable? For example, it sounds like you feel some distress re: your lab courses. What kinds of courses do you like? What do you do well in? Try to identify what your academic strengths are and take more classes that play to those strengths, rather than brute-forcing your way through hard science classes that are uninteresting and unnecessarily stressful. For example, I spent my first 2 years miserable in hard science with very poor grades, then switched to humanities and my GPA shot up 0.3. Now that I'm in med school I am more disadvantaged than my peers with stronger science backgrounds, but it's nothing I (and my fellow humanities undergrads) haven't been able to overcome. It is so worth it to study something you enjoy and excel at.

It sounds like you have an all-or-nothing approach to medicine, and you're putting all your eggs in that basket, which makes the stakes a lot higher than they need to be. My other piece of advice is to think about careers outside of medicine- not because you can't get in, but because identifying other potential careers and pathways can help take some of the pressure off. What do you like about medicine and why do you want to be a doctor? There are so many careers that share many of the roles/responsibilities of doctors, both inside medicine (e.g. PA, nurse, respiratory therapy, speech and language pathology, dietics, etc) and outside of medicine (e.g. teaching, counselling, social work, engineering, etc). Think about what drives you to go into medicine and think of other options. Maybe nothing would make you *as happy* as medicine, but there are still many careers that would allow you to get satisfaction from your work and do meaningful things. You could bring your talents to so many different roles and help people in multiple contexts besides being a doctor.

 

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On 11/11/2018 at 1:46 PM, Recusitatorwannabe said:

Wouldn't it make me happy in that I am doing something I enjoy? I honestly can see myself having fun memorizing things that save lives rather than the lac operon. The people are type A in pre-med as well, I am in a competitive university with the major that is useless without medicine; so everyone is trying to get into medicine. And computer science is done, I finished it. I wish I could take it off my transcript but I can't. 

I-I'll just shut up. I understand how annoying pre-meds must be, sorry. 

I think you have a warped view of medical school. 

 

You aren’t learning how how to save lives. Most of the first two years (at UofT at least) are basic science and anatomy based. 

 

It is WAY harder than undergrad in that it’s a lot more information that you also need to retain in the first two years but also by year 3 start being functional on the wards all the while making sure you define a career path to take electives etc in the right fields and get good evaluations and reference letters. Compound this with doing call and having to study somehow during a rotation and you quickly realize it’s not peaches.

 

No no one thinks they have “made it” once they get into medical school relative to undergrad. Medical school is tough and rewarding but if you already have these issues I think you need to realize getting into medical school won’t be your salvation. It will just introduce new and similar problems which may be worse. 

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On 11/11/2018 at 3:35 PM, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I don't even know anymore, I thoroughly enjoy medicine but I don't particularly enjoy things that are the building blocks that leads up to it; if that makes sense, like knowing what to do for someone who is sick, what kind of sicknesses there are, how to ethically deal with people (my ultimate dream is surgery; but I've just accepted my fate at this point). I can't be a nurse; I would have had to major in nursing; 

I don’t understand what you think medicine is. If it’s not about treating people who are sick and diagnosing their illness and how to ethically care for people, then what is it?

Even in surgery you can’t just cut into people without doing all the above. 

Finally, you can still go into nursing. You just have to get a nursing degree. 

In any case, I think you should speak with a career advisor and get advice from healthcare professionals about their jobs and daily life to have a better understanding of what they do.

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6 hours ago, Butterfly_ said:

I don’t understand what you think medicine is. If it’s not about treating people who are sick and diagnosing their illness and how to ethically care for people, then what is it?

Even in surgery you can’t just cut into people without doing all the above. 

Finally, you can still go into nursing. You just have to get a nursing degree. 

In any case, I think you should speak with a career advisor and get advice from healthcare professionals about their jobs and daily life to have a better understanding of what they do.

I think (hope?) he meant to say that these were the parts of medicine that he liked but I agree that the wording makes it hard to understand what he really meant to say.

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On 11/18/2018 at 10:52 AM, Butterfly_ said:

I don’t understand what you think medicine is. If it’s not about treating people who are sick and diagnosing their illness and how to ethically care for people, then what is it?

Even in surgery you can’t just cut into people without doing all the above. 

Finally, you can still go into nursing. You just have to get a nursing degree. 

In any case, I think you should speak with a career advisor and get advice from healthcare professionals about their jobs and daily life to have a better understanding of what they do.

I don’t think you understood properly. That’s the stuff I said I ENJOY, the stuff I don’t enjoy are things like the lac operon. Apologizes for the miscommunication. 

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20 minutes ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I don’t think you understood properly. That’s the stuff I said I ENJOY, the stuff I don’t enjoy are things like the lac operon. Please be sure to read my comment correctly before providing feedback.

 

To be fair, the way you wrote it does not convey that well. "I thoroughly enjoy medicine but I don't particularly enjoy things that are the building blocks that leads up to it; if that makes sense, like knowing what to do for someone who is sick,...."

But it's good to know that you do like those things, important for medicine. It's important to be clear in your writing though, another important skill for med. Good luck on your journey, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

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On 11/18/2018 at 10:26 AM, Aconitase said:

I think you have a warped view of medical school. 

 

You aren’t learning how how to save lives. Most of the first two years (at UofT at least) are basic science and anatomy based. 

 

It is WAY harder than undergrad in that it’s a lot more information that you also need to retain in the first two years but also by year 3 start being functional on the wards all the while making sure you define a career path to take electives etc in the right fields and get good evaluations and reference letters. Compound this with doing call and having to study somehow during a rotation and you quickly realize it’s not peaches.

 

No no one thinks they have “made it” once they get into medical school relative to undergrad. Medical school is tough and rewarding but if you already have these issues I think you need to realize getting into medical school won’t be your salvation. It will just introduce new and similar problems which may be worse. 

 

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40 minutes ago, IMislove said:

To be fair, the way you wrote it does not convey that well. "I thoroughly enjoy medicine but I don't particularly enjoy things that are the building blocks that leads up to it; if that makes sense, like knowing what to do for someone who is sick,...."

But it's good to know that you do like those things, important for medicine. It's important to be clear in your writing though, another important skill for med. Good luck on your journey, it's a marathon, not a sprint.

Apologize for the lack of communication; I may have rushed the response and not checked it over properly  

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1 hour ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

Are you learning microbiology in medical school? Are you learning Sociology in medical school? Do you have to take an astronomy course? This is what I mean by building blocks. I enjoy anatomy; and pharmacology; you can see the medical applications to that. But are you doing organic chemistry and Calculus 3 in medical school? No! You are learning how to save lives! I am not saying medical school is the solution to all my problems, I am saying that there is a difference, being motivated having that experience seeing what youre actually doing! I would rather memorize all the human anatomy and every medication that exists than knowing all the periods and eras of the world! This is what I mean! It will not introduce these problems because half of my problems are the fact that I cannot see the medical applications to what I'm learning! The only same problems I can see is the competitive nature of all these arrogant bullies who ironically want to help people but are mean to their own peers (will never make sense to me) and heavy work load. 

Calm yourself and watch how you are talking to people. You want to be my colleague and yet you act like this? Calling everyone an arrogant bully? It’s not my fault or anyone else’s you can’t hack the grades for medical school so stop yelling at us when we tell you med school isn’t all saving life’s and that all coursework  has clinical Relevance  

 

Perhaps you should listen to those of us who have done medical school instead of trying to tell us what it’s like. Almost everyone has told you that the solution to you hating your courses and being down about it and hating school isn’t going to be solved bc you get into medical school. If you don’t believe us then that’s fine but don’t waste my time explaining to me what med school is like if you have never done it.

 

Of course you do microbio in medical school. Sociology is important as well. It’s not all CPR. There are plenty of courses that don’t have immediate clinical relevance. But it sounds like you seem to have a better knowledge of this than me somehow lol  

 

Nobody told you to do calculus 3 and astronomy to get into medical school. It’s not anyone’s fault but your own that you didn’t pick a better major for yourself. I did computer engineering so everyone picks something they like and are good at. Sounds like you picked neither. Rather than try and fix this as have suggested you are rudely arguing with others that med school will solve your problems. 

 

Anyway I’m done here. Good luck to you

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58 minutes ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

Are you learning microbiology in medical school? Are you learning Sociology in medical school? Do you have to take an astronomy course? This is what I mean by building blocks. I enjoy anatomy; and pharmacology; you can see the medical applications to that. But are you doing organic chemistry and Calculus 3 in medical school? No! You are learning how to save lives! I am not saying medical school is the solution to all my problems, I am saying that there is a difference, being motivated having that experience seeing what youre actually doing! I would rather memorize all the human anatomy and every medication that exists than knowing all the periods and eras of the world! This is what I mean! It will not introduce these problems because half of my problems are the fact that I cannot see the medical applications to what I'm learning! The only same problems I can see is the competitive nature of all these arrogant bullies who ironically want to help people but are mean to their own peers (will never make sense to me) and heavy work load. 

There is lots of sociology now in med school, we had a whole course dedicated basically to sociology in 1st year. Definitely microbiology (I would argue not enough). There will be still many courses and assignments that you find to a bother and waste of time, and you will learn things that have no relevance in terms of saving lives.

Organic chemistry definitely does not have clinical relevance, but I would argue that it's a great way to train your problem solving skills and understanding of mechanisms, which have analogues in practicing clinical medicine. Additionally, these things will come up again on the MCAT and I think you will be better off just getting a firm grasp on them from your course work rather than spend thousands of additional $$ on an MCAT prep course.

I understand there may be less flexibility in choosing courses in 1st and 2nd yr undergrad, but it does get better in upper years. I don't know what school you're studying at, but there was a lot of flexibility in 3rd and 4th year to do study your interests where I went. Just be patient and do your best. I had an awful start to university where I barely passed my 1st year and was able to bounce back and get into med school. 

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On 11/19/2018 at 12:53 PM, Aconitase said:

Calm yourself and watch how you are talking to people. You want to be my colleague and yet you act like this? Calling everyone an arrogant bully? It’s not my fault or anyone else’s you can’t hack the grades for medical school so stop yelling at us when we tell you med school isn’t all saving life’s and that all coursework  has clinical Relevance  

 

Perhaps you should listen to those of us who have done medical school instead of trying to tell us what it’s like. Almost everyone has told you that the solution to you hating your courses and being down about it and hating school isn’t going to be solved bc you get into medical school. If you don’t believe us then that’s fine but don’t waste my time explaining to me what med school is like if you have never done it.

 

Of course you do microbio in medical school. Sociology is important as well. It’s not all CPR. There are plenty of courses that don’t have immediate clinical relevance. But it sounds like you seem to have a better knowledge of this than me somehow lol  

 

Nobody told you to do calculus 3 and astronomy to get into medical school. It’s not anyone’s fault but your own that you didn’t pick a better major for yourself. I did computer engineering so everyone picks something they like and are good at. Sounds like you picked neither. Rather than try and fix this as have suggested you are rudely arguing with others that med school will solve your problems. 

 

Anyway I’m done here. Good luck to you

 

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4 minutes ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I am not giving an attitude; I am not even angry, I am simply explaining my situation and people were quick to attack me. If you know me in real life I do not have an edge of attitude, I am very kind to others and I never even raise my voice or say anything rude; I am literally so kind to anyone around me. Please do not make an assumption of my character when you do not know the person I am, I have many flaws but I can assure you an attitude is not one of them; thank you. I am so nice that I often get taken advantage of or teased because I am viewed as "weak"; thank you once again. 

Look at how you responded to me. While I have no idea what you are like in real life do you think that’s an appropriate way to communicate with people that know way more about medical school and are trying to help explain to you why it may not be what you think it is 

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50 minutes ago, gangliocytoma said:

There is lots of sociology now in med school, we had a whole course dedicated basically to sociology in 1st year. Definitely microbiology (I would argue not enough). There will be still many courses and assignments that you find to a bother and waste of time, and you will learn things that have no relevance in terms of saving lives.

Organic chemistry definitely does not have clinical relevance, but I would argue that it's a great way to train your problem solving skills and understanding of mechanisms, which have analogues in practicing clinical medicine. Additionally, these things will come up again on the MCAT and I think you will be better off just getting a firm grasp on them from your course work rather than spend thousands of additional $$ on an MCAT prep course.

I understand there may be less flexibility in choosing courses in 1st and 2nd yr undergrad, but it does get better in upper years. I don't know what school you're studying at, but there was a lot of flexibility in 3rd and 4th year to do study your interests where I went. Just be patient and do your best. I had an awful start to university where I barely passed my 1st year and was able to bounce back and get into med school. 

Thank you so much for the helpful comment,  I really appreciate it. 

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2 minutes ago, Aconitase said:

Look at how you responded to me. While I have no idea what you are like in real life do you think that’s an appropriate way to communicate with people that know way more about medical school and are trying to help explain to you why it may not be what you think it is 

I was not meaning to come off rude; but I do hear many different opinions (people from medical school) who do say it is very different from undergrad, I was told that it is a lot easier to see applications in medical school than undergrad for these exact reasons (but like you said it is very major dependant- but in relation to my major) and I hear from another person that medical school will be exactly like undergraduate just more information, so it becomes a he said she said; in no way was I intending to be inappropriate; like I said, if that's the way you interpreted it I apologize but I interpreted your comments to be condescending as well, I did not judge your character though because I knew my own internal factors could have made me interpret your comment wrong. Maybe you took my arrogant bully comment towards yourself; even though if you read my other posts you would understand that was a direct at people who have actually legitimately bullied me (in real life) who are making their way into medical school.

 

Thank you once again. 

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