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Are there any normal non arrogant pre-meds?


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I feel like a lost sheep. 

I am not arrogant nor conceited; but that is because I am not naturally gifted. Are the majority of people in medicine naturally smart beings who look down on others? Trying to not let others affect me but why is everyone so mean and judgy? I get it's competitive but so are many other things. Like soccer players will literally play against each other in the world cup and still be friends. Why is there this whole thing that "in order for me to succeed others must fail"; like I don't understand? 

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Most who get into medicine aren't as you describe. But there are many who are underneath like that, but don't let it show on the surface. I.e. they were the ones who were smart enough to realize being outwardly a d*ck won't get you into medicine. Some of them resurface once they become senior residents onwards and have some power so to speak. 

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Most people that I encountered in med school and onwards are genuinely nice people. I think premeds by nature are competitive and a lot are insecure. They mask that insecurity with arrogance and cockiness. With the process being very competitive and limited number of med school spots for overwhelming more applicants, there is a lot of that mindset as you described. However, once people get in I think a lot of that competitive edge is gone given that they had made it. Ofcourse, there are people who are jerks who get into medicine, but the interview weeds out the large majority of them and the jerks (who can't fake being nice) are few and far between, at least at the residency and colleague level (staff/teachers are another story :))

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5 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

why is everyone so mean and judgy? Why is there this whole thing that "in order for me to succeed others must fail"

Insecurity.

You are going to find insecure people at every level. The competition doesn't stop after you get into med school and beyond, but as long as everybody is collegial and can function together as a group, just move on. If they are being judgmental about something that is actually legit, take that as a reminder, learn from it, and brush it off. 

I tend to keep quiet and let these people talk about themselves. I know who I am and I really don't need them to figure me out and tell me who/what I am. They don't matter, and I really don't give a damn what they think.

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9 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I feel like a lost sheep. 

I am not arrogant nor conceited; but that is because I am not naturally gifted. Are the majority of people in medicine naturally smart beings who look down on others? Trying to not let others affect me but why is everyone so mean and judgy? I get it's competitive but so are many other things. Like soccer players will literally play against each other in the world cup and still be friends. Why is there this whole thing that "in order for me to succeed others must fail"; like I don't understand? 

You sound like something bad just happened to you, i wouldn't let it get to you, theres good and bad people all around and people in medicine really are quite nice compared to many other fields with people of similar educational background. 

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1 minute ago, Edict said:

You sound like something bad just happened to you, i wouldn't let it get to you, theres good and bad people all around and people in medicine really are quite nice compared to many other fields with people of similar educational background. 

I’m literally getting bullied lol. In a “you’re not good enough” way; like straight bullied

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3 minutes ago, Edict said:

Wow, I would try to extricate myself from that situation when you can, but in the meantime just try to keep moving along. It can be tough. 

I’m trying I really am; I wanted to be part of a study group and this guy was like “no offence but you’re not good enough to be in this study group,  you’ll  just confuse us, you work hard but you’re just not smart enough, it’s kind of sad.”

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Just now, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I’m trying I really am; I wanted to be part of a study group and this guy was like “no offence but you’re not good enough to be in this study group, “you’ll just confuse us, you work hard but you’re just not smart enough, it’s kind of sad.”

Damn... that is really rude. Look for a different group to study in or go off on your own. People like that would only harm you in the long run anyways. 

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19 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I feel like a lost sheep. 

I am not arrogant nor conceited; but that is because I am not naturally gifted. Are the majority of people in medicine naturally smart beings who look down on others? Trying to not let others affect me but why is everyone so mean and judgy? I get it's competitive but so are many other things. Like soccer players will literally play against each other in the world cup and still be friends. Why is there this whole thing that "in order for me to succeed others must fail"; like I don't understand? 

Sadly this is the norm. 

 

It gets a bit better later but in general Canadian med students and doctors are boring people that usually are private school educated and wouldn’t know a poor person if it wasn’t their patient. They usually have nannies and only hang out with other doctors and vote PC. They care a lot about money (hence the new OSA)

 

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16 minutes ago, Aconitase said:

Sadly this is the norm. 

 

It gets a bit better later but in general Canadian med students and doctors are boring people that usually are private school educated and wouldn’t know a poor person if it wasn’t their patient. They usually have nannies and only hang out with other doctors and vote PC. They care a lot about money (hence the new OSA)

 

Damn; I'm the first in my family to go to university, my dad is a bus driver and my mom works at Walmart; I do notice that some people in my program have money (cars and such) but I thought at least some people had like at least immigrant parents with not much money.  

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19 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I feel like a lost sheep. 

I am not arrogant nor conceited; but that is because I am not naturally gifted. Are the majority of people in medicine naturally smart beings who look down on others? Trying to not let others affect me but why is everyone so mean and judgy? I get it's competitive but so are many other things. Like soccer players will literally play against each other in the world cup and still be friends. Why is there this whole thing that "in order for me to succeed others must fail"; like I don't understand? 

I can assure you that many of the most arrogant and conceited people you meet are actually the least skilled at what they do. This fact should be readily apparent if you do anything competitively, and even more so if you play Call of Duty.

The lower echelons of any field tend to be more toxic than those higher up. As a general rule of thumb, amateurs behave worse than professionals. Your example of soccer players in the World Cup isn't a good one because most (if not all) of them are professionals, and individuals who make it that far usually have some maturity, and are held to a higher standard of conduct than the average person. The same generally holds for medicine.

In a perfect world, performance would simply speak for itself, and people wouldn't feel the need to spend energy putting others down. However, keep in mind that most people aren't like this, and those who do behave poorly are just those you tend to notice more, so they stick out in your mind more. You definitely aren't alone in how you feel. Tune out the noise and stay positive. 

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The arrogance continues in med school, residency, and I suspect beyond.   One should not feel required to put up with it; there are always others who are not like this, but they’re sometimes hard to find. 

Once again, I would like to encourage you to get support for how you’re feeling and how you’re struggling. There is a strong undercurrent of depressive and low self esteem themes to your posts, and I worry about you @Recusitatorwannabe

Please feel free to PM me directly. 

Best,

LL

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3 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

Damn; I'm the first in my family to go to university, my dad is a bus driver and my mom works at Walmart; I do notice that some people in my program have money (cars and such) but I thought at least some people had like at least immigrant parents with not much money.  

There are some but it’s few and far between. 

 

Mainly a bunch of rich kids whose parents are doctors and were private school educated. Generally look down on the rest of world since they don’t know anyone who isn’t well off 

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13 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I’m trying I really am; I wanted to be part of a study group and this guy was like “no offence but you’re not good enough to be in this study group,  you’ll  just confuse us, you work hard but you’re just not smart enough, it’s kind of sad.”

They sound like a bunch of jerks and what they said was beyond rude. 

The fact that you are in medical school means that the school thinks you have what it takes to succeed. 

In my experience, arrogance, meanness, and exclusion usually ends up biting the person in the butt. 

I’m sure there are some nice med students in your class somewhere. Try to make a study group with other students.

 

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6 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

Damn; I'm the first in my family to go to university, my dad is a bus driver and my mom works at Walmart; I do notice that some people in my program have money (cars and such) but I thought at least some people had like at least immigrant parents with not much money.  

Ha I am similar - my mom is the bus driver though. I am the first person in my family to graduate from high school (and then go to university). I may have over compensated ha with my education as a result. 

Those people sound like asses, and often that is a protective mechanism for their own issues. Not always of course but usually so - the competitive switch gets turned on as well and some people don't know how to turn it off .  

Anyone in medical school is smart enough. Doesn't mean it is automatic mind you, and it isn't unusual for some people to have issues at different parts of the system - I have seen top preclerks crash and burn in clerkship, and other come to life. In the end everyone reaches the level where they are a safe and competent  doctor. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Recusitatorwannabe said:

I’m trying I really am; I wanted to be part of a study group and this guy was like “no offence but you’re not good enough to be in this study group,  you’ll  just confuse us, you work hard but you’re just not smart enough, it’s kind of sad.”

There is a range off people at every level.  There are pre-med assholes, but I don't think its a higher percentage than in med school or residency.   You probably just got bad luck in the people you stared to work with.  Try your best to move on, focusing on it will not help.

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Most strong premeds in my program were reasonably nice but plain, probably a result of focusing on work & studies above all else.

Jerks were more common in the early 'unspecialized years' since the program hadn't had a chance to weed them at that point. I remember one year, we had a senior undergrad student who passed on his excellent notes down to his junior friends for free, and one dude tried to make money off of it by selling those notes for $$$ to other people. In my cohort most of those jerks went onto other careers or Caribbean/overseas med schools.

OP just find your own group of friends and do your own thing. Try your best and if it doesn't work out, find something else to do. Medical school seems like everything at this point, but it doesn't have to be.

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21 hours ago, Butterfly_ said:

They sound like a bunch of jerks and what they said was beyond rude. 

The fact that you are in medical school means that the school thinks you have what it takes to succeed. 

In my experience, arrogance, meanness, and exclusion usually ends up biting the person in the butt. 

I’m sure there are some nice med students in your class somewhere. Try to make a study group with other students.

 

Couldn't agree more with this. This is definitely more to do with their deeper insecurities and not about you, but this kind of toxicity is really hard to separate from when you have experienced first hand. Definitely try to reach out to some other students in your class, there are always alternatives even when it does not feel like there is. 

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On 11/13/2018 at 8:02 AM, Intrepid86 said:

I can assure you that many of the most arrogant and conceited people you meet are actually the least skilled at what they do. This fact should be readily apparent if you do anything competitively, and even more so if you play Call of Duty.

The lower echelons of any field tend to be more toxic than those higher up. As a general rule of thumb, amateurs behave worse than professionals. Your example of soccer players in the World Cup isn't a good one because most (if not all) of them are professionals, and individuals who make it that far usually have some maturity, and are held to a higher standard of conduct than the average person. The same generally holds for medicine.

In a perfect world, performance would simply speak for itself, and people wouldn't feel the need to spend energy putting others down. However, keep in mind that most people aren't like this, and those who do behave poorly are just those you tend to notice more, so they stick out in your mind more. You definitely aren't alone in how you feel. Tune out the noise and stay positive. 

I would never have imagined call of duty being used in a premed/med forum...

- G

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On 11/13/2018 at 11:20 AM, Aconitase said:

There are some but it’s few and far between. 

 

Mainly a bunch of rich kids whose parents are doctors and were private school educated. Generally look down on the rest of world since they don’t know anyone who isn’t well off 

I mean I do think a lot of students are well off but hyperbole much? 

I do think there is an issue with people looking down on others in medicine but that happens even in the context of people looking down on other specialties... it's infuriating to see people so disrespected. 

- G

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Your post history is a little troubling. You've been ranting about your stresses and problems on here for a while. Are you sure this is the way you are being treated, or is it all in your perception? I also noticed that you are a computer science undergraduate student, so what do you mean by "pre-meds" being arrogant. These students are not pre-med. Most of them won't get into medical school. I can't imagine that most of your peers are even aiming for medical school, to begin with. At the end of the day, you're in university, so if you want to avoid people, you generally can, and find people that you enjoy being around. I don't know what school you go to where you can be bullied by your peers, simply because there are thousands of students you could be engaging with in university. If it's that bad, you could also take your concerns to the administration and the appropriate authorities. 

You posted this a few days ago -  I am not miserable (okay that's a lie, I partially am), just very confused and stressed. It is honestly very stressful, medical school would change in that I would know where I am going with life. The main thing that concerns me here is if I'm not good enough, I have no idea what I am going to do with my life. And computer science I 100% regret taking, but I stuck with it because I am so stubborn when I choose courses. And I know they're not prereq's but they're requirements for my major. Cell Biology I thought I would enjoy more as I enjoyed it last year; everything is has been pretty okay. I am trying to stick it out but I also want to be realistic. 

You may need to do some self-reflection and figure out your path moving forward. It won't get any easier as a med student or practitioner. You also need to develop your emotional intelligence because it's a core life skill you need, especially in this profession.

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On 11/13/2018 at 4:05 PM, Butterfly_ said:

They sound like a bunch of jerks and what they said was beyond rude. 

The fact that you are in medical school means that the school thinks you have what it takes to succeed. 

In my experience, arrogance, meanness, and exclusion usually ends up biting the person in the butt. 

I’m sure there are some nice med students in your class somewhere. Try to make a study group with other students.

 

He/she is an undergraduate computer science student, not in medical school yet.

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On 11/13/2018 at 7:05 AM, Aconitase said:

Sadly this is the norm. 

 

It gets a bit better later but in general Canadian med students and doctors are boring people that usually are private school educated and wouldn’t know a poor person if it wasn’t their patient. They usually have nannies and only hang out with other doctors and vote PC. They care a lot about money (hence the new OSA).

Agree with the bolded parts. Generally however, I do find staff to be better at holding a conversation and possessing more reasonable views, compared to students. For that last point, I think if you don't go into medicine for the money, by the time you've gone through clerkship you care a lot more about it.

 

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