capital Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Unfortunately, I have had to repeat a semester in medical school due to academic reasons. I am looking for insight with respect to my expectations for CaRMS and matching. I am currently pursuing a very competitive speciality. I have invested a lot of time and effort, I have participated in research dedicated to this speciality, I am on the executive of the interest club, and I have logged many shadowing hours and continue to do so. I really enjoy this surgical speciality and would love to be able make a career out of it. I am curious to know if anyone has had academic difficulty that shows on their transcript and is willing to share their CaRMS story, or if anyone can shed some light as to how this will effect my chances matching to a competitive surgical speciality. Am I being unrealistic focusing my energy on pursuing this competitive match, or should I double down? Please be as blunt and honest with me as possible, any and all thoughts are valued, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#YOLO Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 yeah gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 If you have a good explanation as to why you had academic troubles or it doesn't show up on your transcript/application that you failed due to academic reasons or you really impress someone who can advocate for you at their school, you have a chance. It also does depend on the exact specialty, if we are talking something like plastics, it is probably more of a challenge. If you really love this specialty, pursue it, if the thought of you walking away now will make you always wonder "what if", then i'd do it. Have a backup plan though, the numbers are real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Edict said: If you have a good explanation as to why you had academic troubles or it doesn't show up on your transcript/application that you failed due to academic reasons or you really impress someone who can advocate for you at their school, you have a chance. It also does depend on the exact specialty, if we are talking something like plastics, it is probably more of a challenge. If you really love this specialty, pursue it, if the thought of you walking away now will make you always wonder "what if", then i'd do it. Have a backup plan though, the numbers are real. The reason I asked this here is to get honest answers, and potentially suggestions as to how I can be competitive. Speaking to senior staff and faculty I find that they are hesitant to be direct with me and I sense they are filling me with false hope. Thanks for your input. I believe I have a good explanation, but I also don't want to come across as making excuses. How would you suggest approaching this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 hours ago, #YOLO said: yeah gg Thanks for your honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1D7 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 You have a chance at your home program if you've really impressed them, explained everything prior to the match/interviews, and have an advocate on the residency committee (ideally the PD or a chief resident). At every other program you will be at a steep, and likely insurmountable disadvantage. Fact is that good candidates without red flags can still go unmatched when applying to competitive specialties. If you can picture yourself doing anything else less competitive (be honest and try to put away the ego), you should do that instead and put all your effort there. Think about your values carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Agree, your main shot will be at programs that are familiar and impressed enough with you that they are willing to overlook the blemish on your record. Are you someone who can really "wow" in person during an elective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 36 minutes ago, 1D7 said: You have a chance at your home program if you've really impressed them, explained everything prior to the match/interviews, and have an advocate on the residency committee (ideally the PD or a chief resident). At every other program you will be at a steep, and likely insurmountable disadvantage. Fact is that good candidates without red flags can still go unmatched when applying to competitive specialties. If you can picture yourself doing anything else less competitive (be honest and try to put away the ego), you should do that instead and put all your effort there. Think about your values carefully. 13 minutes ago, Lactic Folly said: Agree, your main shot will be at programs that are familiar and impressed enough with you that they are willing to overlook the blemish on your record. Are you someone who can really "wow" in person during an elective? Thank you guys for the feedback. Im curious what you mean by 'impress' or 'wow' during elective. Through shadowing I feel I have gained a lot of valuable experience that I will use during electives. Do you mean impress personality wise, or knowledge wise? Anything you suggest I do to set my self up for success during electives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah1234 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 To wow for an elective you should ideally know the material, be a good team player, be an individual that they would want to hire for the next 5 years. A lot of these things can be very subjective and difficult to evaluate on the student side. I would say if you truly have a red flag on your transcript that you do your best to match to something like Family Medicine. I think unfortunately programs will likely discriminate against students who have a red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital Posted January 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 27 minutes ago, blah1234 said: To wow for an elective you should ideally know the material, be a good team player, be an individual that they would want to hire for the next 5 years. A lot of these things can be very subjective and difficult to evaluate on the student side. I would say if you truly have a red flag on your transcript that you do your best to match to something like Family Medicine. I think unfortunately programs will likely discriminate against students who have a red flag. Thanks for the response. I was considering writing the USMLE as evidence of overcoming my academic blemish. Do you think there is any merit to this? Would writing the USMLE provide any support for my application to a Canadian program? Would my situation still be considered a 'red flag'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 55 minutes ago, capital said: Thank you guys for the feedback. Im curious what you mean by 'impress' or 'wow' during elective. Through shadowing I feel I have gained a lot of valuable experience that I will use during electives. Do you mean impress personality wise, or knowledge wise? Anything you suggest I do to set my self up for success during electives? A student who impresses is someone who stands out from their peers, assuming the majority pursuing a 'very competitive specialty' are likeable and have a good knowledge base. Someone the program considers a "star" who is at the top of the application pile, and wishes to recruit. Agree that it can be difficult to evaluate from the student's perspective, but the top students in the country are likely to have CVs containing many awards and accomplishments. Given the shadowing and research you have already done, have you received much feedback from the department? Were you able to produce a high quality or quantity of work during your research experience? If you have extenuating circumstances leading to the academic repeat, I suppose a superior USMLE score could help provide reassurance if you explained it in your personal statement. But you would really need excellent performance, 9x% percentile+... just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 5 hours ago, capital said: The reason I asked this here is to get honest answers, and potentially suggestions as to how I can be competitive. Speaking to senior staff and faculty I find that they are hesitant to be direct with me and I sense they are filling me with false hope. Thanks for your input. I believe I have a good explanation, but I also don't want to come across as making excuses. How would you suggest approaching this issue. I would just say your explanation honestly if the issue comes up at interview (i.e., they ask you directly). On the trail, I would keep the whole issue as private as possible, so don't share anything about this with other applicants or residents. If this is a very strong reason, like, i was injured in someway that wasn't your own fault and you couldn't study as a result, then I would be much more willing to share that information at an interview. If people are able to poke holes in it, i.e., could find a way to blame you for it, i wouldn't share it unless it comes up. I would also be more willing to share it if you know they know, (i.e. if your own program knows you failed, you might as well explain why). If theres a chance a program doesn't know you failed, you may want to keep quiet especially if your reason isn't super strong. I'd also try different strategies at different interviews. If this is something that is on your transcript, but could be ambiguous since a lot of programs don't trust or read transcripts, you might want to explain at one interview and stay quiet at another. That way you hedge your bets. At the end of the day, you just need one program to take you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 If it is a very competitive specialty and the academic issue is not difficult to see on the transcript, I suspect an interview offer would already mean it's been glossed over (except at one's home school which may offer a courtesy interview). As said above, even solid candidates with no red flags may not be offered very many interviews, and end up unmatched or in a backup field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnGrisham Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 If you do take the USMLE, destroy it, and apply to the US for that specialty also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intriguing Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 .......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah1234 Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 On 1/23/2019 at 6:47 PM, capital said: Thanks for the response. I was considering writing the USMLE as evidence of overcoming my academic blemish. Do you think there is any merit to this? Would writing the USMLE provide any support for my application to a Canadian program? Would my situation still be considered a 'red flag'? When I did application review I don't think we put any weight on a USMLE score. To be honest I wouldn't even know how to interpret one. I think doing the USMLE and scoring well would open doors to US residency programs (and working in the US down the road). I can't speak for every program out there, but I don't think mine would've weighed the USMLE heavily. The unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of students do not have any blemish on their academic transcript. This doesn't mean you won't match and become a doctor. It just means you have to apply broadly and hopefully to non-competitive programs like FM. I would say that seeing students go unmatched these days is far worse than doing FM even if there isn't any love for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital Posted January 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 I should clarify one thing. The official reason I had to repeat is academic difficulty. However, it is not that simple. I missed 3 weeks during our last module due to an injury and was unable to catch up and successfully complete the course. Because this happened too late in the term, withdrawing was not an option. And thus academic difficulty was/will be listed as the reason on my deans letter. Does this change anything? Thank you all for the responses and suggestions. I appreciate the honest criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherus Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 6 hours ago, capital said: I should clarify one thing. The official reason I had to repeat is academic difficulty. However, it is not that simple. I missed 3 weeks during our last module due to an injury and was unable to catch up and successfully complete the course. Because this happened too late in the term, withdrawing was not an option. And thus academic difficulty was/will be listed as the reason on my deans letter. Does this change anything? Thank you all for the responses and suggestions. I appreciate the honest criticism. I would try to appeal the decision or try to get something else written on your transcript that is more benign. Unfortunately, in the current climate, your ability to match to something competitive is limited if not non existent. In a Pass/Fail system, any fail will sink you completely. I would estimate that less than 5% of students have to repeat a year of medical school. In the eyes of programs, this puts you in the bottom 5% of applicants. My recommendation is that you focus on a feasible specialty (anything in the CaRMS website that has a 1:1 ratio or greater of spots to applicants). Going for the more competitive specialty will run the risk of larger programs feeling as though you are backing up and the competitive programs will flag you for this blemish on your transcript. At the end of the day, the choice is yours. You could prove me wrong and manage to match to your specialty of choice. My opinion is that you should avoid going unmatched at all cost. Going unmatched on top of having to repeat a year would put you in a really tough spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 8 hours ago, capital said: I should clarify one thing. The official reason I had to repeat is academic difficulty. However, it is not that simple. I missed 3 weeks during our last module due to an injury and was unable to catch up and successfully complete the course. Because this happened too late in the term, withdrawing was not an option. And thus academic difficulty was/will be listed as the reason on my deans letter. Does this change anything? Thank you all for the responses and suggestions. I appreciate the honest criticism. If this is true, I would fight this. Academic difficulty sounds like you failed. Have you asked your school if they can change this? If this is true, they shouldn't write that on your transcript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intriguing Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 ........................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capital Posted January 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 I went through multiple appeals and exhausted all my options with no avail. I requested from the UGME if I could get some sort of letter to explain the situation, or at least just state the facts. Again, I was denied. What type of verification could I provide programs? should I provide verification with my application? I really am not sure the best way to approach this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah1234 Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, capital said: I went through multiple appeals and exhausted all my options with no avail. I requested from the UGME if I could get some sort of letter to explain the situation, or at least just state the facts. Again, I was denied. What type of verification could I provide programs? should I provide verification with my application? I really am not sure the best way to approach this. I'm sorry to hear that your school would not accommodate you. There is usually some sort of section to write about Other/Extraneous factors. I'm honestly not sure if many programs will read that thoroughly. Even in programs like FM I think there are huge culls of files just because the number of applicants for programs has increased dramatically. I know life probably seems unfair to you right now and that the school hurt your chances for very little reason. The profession is very judgemental and unforgiving so I would say do whatever it takes to get matched because you'll face an even harder road as an unmatched student with a red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indefatigable Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 If you have time available, then I'd suggest writing & destroying the US MLEs and applying there. If you're in a busy clerkship before electives then I'd suggest having other electives of interest in less competitive programs that also give you chances at matching, besides your most desired specialty. If you don't pursue your most desired specialty at all you'll be left with "what if?", but I'd just make sure there are good alternatives since you have much less room to maneuver. Programs will do what's best for themselves (& to protect themselves), but if everything else in your application is competitive, I wouldn't give up completely at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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