Re-applying to MD again vs. MBBS in UK + equivalencies

[HTxes]

I wanted some peoples opinions on a situation that I am in. I've applied to medical school twice in Canada and have never gotten an interview. I have a cGPA of 3.90, an MCAT score of 515, I am a Canadian citizen and I have recently finished my Bachelor's at McGill University. I have recently been accepted to a British MBBS program at Newcastle University Medicine (Malaysia). I wanted to ask people's opinions on whether it would be more beneficial for me me to get started with medicine in Malaysia now and eventually go through equivalencies and work in Canada or should I find a job or apply for a masters in Canada and re-apply to medicine here? My life is here in Canada, but I also want to be a physician. Staying here will not guarantee that I get a place in a Canadian Medical school later on, but going to Malaysia doesn't guarantee I'll be able to come back either. Any advice? Thank you in advance!

[#YOLO]

being a doctor is not worth it to make that much of a sacrifice 

[la marzocco]

On 2/6/2019 at 6:06 PM, HTxes said:

I wanted some peoples opinions on a situation that I am in. I've applied to medical school twice in Canada and have never gotten an interview. I have a cGPA of 3.90, an MCAT score of 515, I am a Canadian citizen and I have recently finished my Bachelor's at McGill University. I have recently been accepted to a British MBBS program at Newcastle University Medicine (Malaysia). I wanted to ask people's opinions on whether it would be more beneficial for me me to get started with medicine in Malaysia now and eventually go through equivalencies and work in Canada or should I find a job or apply for a masters in Canada and re-apply to medicine here? My life is here in Canada, but I also want to be a physician. Staying here will not guarantee that I get a place in a Canadian Medical school later on, but going to Malaysia doesn't guarantee I'll be able to come back either. Any advice? Thank you in advance!

Why not try USMD schools?

The ladder many people on the forum recommend is: USMD > USDO >= Australia/Ireland > Other INTL schools. 

If you do USMD, you can do residency in the states if CaRMS doesn't pan out. For CaRMS, you will be treated like a CMG assuming you are a Canadian citizen/PR. 

 

USMG match rate through CaRMS back to Canada is still more than double that of IMG so it is advisable that you follow the ladder.

[Edict]

1 hour ago, HTxes said:

I wanted some peoples opinions on a situation that I am in. I've applied to medical school twice in Canada and have never gotten an interview. I have a cGPA of 3.90, an MCAT score of 515, I am a Canadian citizen and I have recently finished my Bachelor's at McGill University. I have recently been accepted to a British MBBS program at Newcastle University Medicine (Malaysia). I wanted to ask people's opinions on whether it would be more beneficial for me me to get started with medicine in Malaysia now and eventually go through equivalencies and work in Canada or should I find a job or apply for a masters in Canada and re-apply to medicine here? My life is here in Canada, but I also want to be a physician. Staying here will not guarantee that I get a place in a Canadian Medical school later on, but going to Malaysia doesn't guarantee I'll be able to come back either. Any advice? Thank you in advance!

I would be very cautious about going to Newcastle in Malaysia. There are many rules around the world about off-campus universities and what counts and what doesn't count for licensing. Many of these schools are opening these campuses to make money, they serve a certain clientele, it is likely for Malaysians to get a UK degree while staying at home (or a medical school for rich Malaysians who cannot get into a government funded medical school), but it could be for example for Australians who can't get into medical school. If you go there, you may never be able to work as a doctor in Canada. These kinds of ventures are liable to collapse at any time. 

I would stay in Canada, certainly, if you do go abroad do not go to an unproven and untested school and avoid non-English speaking countries for medical school. There are both explicit and implicit biases against those who did medical school and clerkship in a different language and with a different culture. Some provinces, like BC, may not even allow you to do electives or apply for residency in their province without having done clerkship in one of a few listed countries. Singapore has a very limited list of medical schools they recognize. Residency program directors, are much more likely to prefer someone who has been through a training system as close to the Canadian one as possible. There is no free lunch, this to me sounds much more risky than going to Ireland, Australia, Poland or the Caribbean for medical school. 

 

 

 

 

[JohnGrisham]

20 minutes ago, Edict said:

I would be very cautious about going to Newcastle in Malaysia. There are many rules around the world about off-campus universities and what counts and what doesn't count for licensing. Many of these schools are opening these campuses to make money, they serve a certain clientele, it is likely for Malaysians to get a UK degree while staying at home (or a medical school for rich Malaysians who cannot get into a government funded medical school), but it could be for example for Australians who can't get into medical school. If you go there, you may never be able to work as a doctor in Canada. These kinds of ventures are liable to collapse at any time. 

I would stay in Canada, certainly, if you do go abroad do not go to an unproven and untested school and avoid non-English speaking countries for medical school. There are both explicit and implicit biases against those who did medical school and clerkship in a different language and with a different culture. Some provinces, like BC, may not even allow you to do electives or apply for residency in their province without having done clerkship in one of a few listed countries. Singapore has a very limited list of medical schools they recognize. Residency program directors, are much more likely to prefer someone who has been through a training system as close to the Canadian one as possible. There is no free lunch, this to me sounds much more risky than going to Ireland, Australia, Poland or the Caribbean for medical school. 

 

 

 

 

Wholeheartedly agree.

[JohnGrisham]

What schools are you applying to in canada? what is holding you back from interviews in Canada - identify your deficiency(it could just be pure luck mind you), and work on that - and in the meantime you could apply USMD/USDO.  Your stats look decent on the surface - break it down for us, how many years undergrad? when did you apply? MCAT breakdown? Non-academics?

[HTxes]

I applied to UofT, McMaster, Queens, Western, Ottawa, NOSM, McGill, Dalhousie and Memorial. My MCAT is 515 ( chemphys 132, CARS 125, Bio 129, psycsoc 129). I applied to the Ontario schools in 2017/2018 cycle in year 3 of undergrad cause I didn’t have the prerequisites for the others, then I applied to all the above this application cycle once I’ve finished my undergrad. I haven’t gotten any more interviewa from any of them and UofT is the only one I haven’t heard from yet. I’ve been doing research in a lab for a year and getting papers published. My non-academics are good, I’m the president of a mcgill club, I’m always helping out at my church, I volunteer at the Montreal general hospital, I’ve done medical aid trips in the past, i dance and i play the guitar. I’m thinking maybe it’s the CASPer exam? Or is there something I’ve mentioned that is obviously wrong that I’ve overlooked? 

[HTxes]

13 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

What schools are you applying to in canada? what is holding you back from interviews in Canada - identify your deficiency(it could just be pure luck mind you), and work on that - and in the meantime you could apply USMD/USDO.  Your stats look decent on the surface - break it down for us, how many years undergrad? when did you apply? MCAT breakdown? Non-academics?

I applied to UofT, McMaster, Queens, Western, Ottawa, NOSM, McGill, Dalhousie and Memorial. My MCAT is 515 ( chemphys 132, CARS 125, Bio 129, psycsoc 129). I applied to the Ontario schools in 2017/2018 cycle in year 3 of undergrad cause I didn’t have the prerequisites for the others, then I applied to all the above this application cycle once I’ve finished my undergrad. I haven’t gotten any more interviewa from any of them and UofT is the only one I haven’t heard from yet. I’ve been doing research in a lab for a year and getting papers published. My non-academics are good, I’m the president of a mcgill club, I’m always helping out at my church, I volunteer at the Montreal general hospital, I’ve done medical aid trips in the past, i dance and i play the guitar. I’m thinking maybe it’s the CASPer exam? Or is there something I’ve mentioned that is obviously wrong that I’ve overlooked? 

[LloydRedStan]

Just now, HTxes said:

I applied to UofT, McMaster, Queens, Western, Ottawa, NOSM, McGill, Dalhousie and Memorial. My MCAT is 515 ( chemphys 132, CARS 125, Bio 129, psycsoc 129). I applied to the Ontario schools in 2017/2018 cycle in year 3 of undergrad cause I didn’t have the prerequisites for the others, then I applied to all the above this application cycle once I’ve finished my undergrad. I haven’t gotten any more interviewa from any of them and UofT is the only one I haven’t heard from yet. I’ve been doing research in a lab for a year and getting papers published. My non-academics are good, I’m the president of a mcgill club, I’m always helping out at my church, I volunteer at the Montreal general hospital, I’ve done medical aid trips in the past, i dance and i play the guitar. I’m thinking maybe it’s the CASPer exam? Or is there something I’ve mentioned that is obviously wrong that I’ve overlooked? 

Your Cars is holding you back at all of those schools except Ottawa (need wGPA 3.85+), Nosm (need to be rural), McGill (hard if not IP) and Toronto. I would strongly consider rewriting as you are throwing most of these schools free money with that CARS

[JohnGrisham]

Yep, your CARS score is holding you back from opening up potential applications in Alberta, Western(why did you even apply to Western with a 125?) And very low odds at McMaster with a 125.  Overall score is good though. I would still apply USMD/DO.

You said you were year 3 of undergrad in 2017/2018, doesnt that mean you are in year 4 this current year 2018/2019?  If this is correct, I wouldn't count your first attempt as a real attempt, and to be honest neither your current attempt - you have an obvious deficit in the CARS, and non-academics could use boosting, so you're application is not the "best it could be" yet, and you have objective measures to improve before being subjected to the whims of the application process.

From what you've said about your Non-academics, they dont seem bad, but dont seem above average either. At best they seem average or below average depending on how heavily the school values non-academics. At schools like Calgary and UBC for example, i highly doubt you would get an interview based on what you've presented for non-academics. 

I would consider strongly re-taking the MCAT if you think you can improve the CARs and not drop the science scores, or just focus on USMD/USDO if you have the financial resources. By no means would i say go to Malaysia.

[jlkhhylyiluh6]

1 hour ago, la marzocco said:

Why not try USMD schools?

The ladder many people on the forum recommend is: USMD > USDO >= Australia/Ireland > Other INTL schools. 

If you do USMD, you can do residency in the states if CaRMS doesn't pan out. For CaRMS, you will be treated like a CMG assuming you are a Canadian citizen/PR. 

USMG match rate through CaRMS back to Canada is still more than double that of IMG so it is advisable that you follow the ladder.

are you really "treated like a CMG" if the match rate is 58% instead of 96% though?

[JohnGrisham]

1 hour ago, beeboop said:

are you really "treated like a CMG" if the match rate is 58% instead of 96% though?

Anecdotally those USMD are not applying as broadly. They are only applying to cities and/or programs they would rank higher than the US opportunities they have. I.e. only applying to their home cities or "desirable places" And knowing that if they dont match carms they will match in the US at more desirable programs(their perception anyways).  A colleague applying for IM did just this. The didnt want to go to any cities outside of their home town, when they could match to top tier US IM programs instead.  They didnt match in Alberta but ended up at an US academic powerhouse instead.  

Anecdotal only.

This is in contrast to CMG colleagues that are applying all across canada from Uoft to UBC to Dalhousie and in between. 

[Sickofitall]

5 hours ago, HTxes said:

I wanted some peoples opinions on a situation that I am in. I've applied to medical school twice in Canada and have never gotten an interview. I have a cGPA of 3.90, an MCAT score of 515, I am a Canadian citizen and I have recently finished my Bachelor's at McGill University. I have recently been accepted to a British MBBS program at Newcastle University Medicine (Malaysia). I wanted to ask people's opinions on whether it would be more beneficial for me me to get started with medicine in Malaysia now and eventually go through equivalencies and work in Canada or should I find a job or apply for a masters in Canada and re-apply to medicine here? My life is here in Canada, but I also want to be a physician. Staying here will not guarantee that I get a place in a Canadian Medical school later on, but going to Malaysia doesn't guarantee I'll be able to come back either. Any advice? Thank you in advance!

I wanna just chime in. Your stats are good but your CARS score is holding you back. If you really want to go international stick to Ireland or Australia. Even though yes you would be considered an IMG in the match, I think you will be worse off if you go to a school that is not well known. I know the match rate for Australia is a bit over 50% too. Personally I would re-write and apply for a few more cycles before considering going overseas.

[HTxes]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:23 PM, JohnGrisham said:

Yep, your CARS score is holding you back from opening up potential applications in Alberta, Western(why did you even apply to Western with a 125?) And very low odds at McMaster with a 125.  Overall score is good though. I would still apply USMD/DO.

You said you were year 3 of undergrad in 2017/2018, doesnt that mean you are in year 4 this current year 2018/2019?  If this is correct, I wouldn't count your first attempt as a real attempt, and to be honest neither your current attempt - you have an obvious deficit in the CARS, and non-academics could use boosting, so you're application is not the "best it could be" yet, and you have objective measures to improve before being subjected to the whims of the application process.

From what you've said about your Non-academics, they dont seem bad, but dont seem above average either. At best they seem average or below average depending on how heavily the school values non-academics. At schools like Calgary and UBC for example, i highly doubt you would get an interview based on what you've presented for non-academics. 

I would consider strongly re-taking the MCAT if you think you can improve the CARs and not drop the science scores, or just focus on USMD/USDO if you have the financial resources. By no means would i say go to Malaysia.

I finished my undergrad in December and I'm continuing my research at McGill. I am considering to retake the MCAT this summer. Given that I hopefully get a better MCAT score, I want to ask your opinion on the idea of starting medical school in Malaysia while re-applying to Canadian, Australian and other medical schools? If I were to re-apply while starting med in Malaysia, would I mention that I'm in Malaysia already, or should I not mention it at all? Or would I be in another category to people who aren't in med school already? The logic behind this is that if I don't get accepted into med in Canada a third time, then at least I would have already finished a year of medicine at Malaysia. Is this the wrong kind of mentality?

[JohnGrisham]

1 hour ago, HTxes said:

I finished my undergrad in December and I'm continuing my research at McGill. I am considering to retake the MCAT this summer. Given that I hopefully get a better MCAT score, I want to ask your opinion on the idea of starting medical school in Malaysia while re-applying to Canadian, Australian and other medical schools? If I were to re-apply while starting med in Malaysia, would I mention that I'm in Malaysia already, or should I not mention it at all? Or would I be in another category to people who aren't in med school already? The logic behind this is that if I don't get accepted into med in Canada a third time, then at least I would have already finished a year of medicine at Malaysia. Is this the wrong kind of mentality?

You dont need to bring it up, other than getting your official malaysian transcripts for completeness. It wont negatively affect your Canadian apps. You will have to restart from scratch here anyways. You can keep re-applying to canada while in malaysia if thats what you choose.

[VigoVirgo]

5 hours ago, HTxes said:

I finished my undergrad in December and I'm continuing my research at McGill. I am considering to retake the MCAT this summer. Given that I hopefully get a better MCAT score, I want to ask your opinion on the idea of starting medical school in Malaysia while re-applying to Canadian, Australian and other medical schools? If I were to re-apply while starting med in Malaysia, would I mention that I'm in Malaysia already, or should I not mention it at all? Or would I be in another category to people who aren't in med school already? The logic behind this is that if I don't get accepted into med in Canada a third time, then at least I would have already finished a year of medicine at Malaysia. Is this the wrong kind of mentality?

What's the rush man haha? Your stats are good, and if you bring up your CARS you'll probably get interviews here. Honestly, besides the fact that it is probably expensive and a waste of money, coming back is difficult. If you don't get in, just use the year to continue to work on your application as much as possible and definitely apply to USMD/DO.  If you're really going to go the international route look at actual med schools in the UK, and also Irish schools which are popular for Canadians. I agree with the other posters here about the Malaysian school. It does not sound like a good option. Like Edict said, a lot of these off shore schools are for profit with sketchy licensing and you'll probably have a tough time trying to get electives booked back home. The upside of going to an Irish school for example is that they are well known, you are around fellow Canadians who you can prepare for the MCCEE/USMLE's with (good support network!), and you'll probably be able to do some rotations back in Canada. I have also heard that Irish schools give you as much support as they can when it comes to matching or trying to find some kind of post graduate training spot/residency. I don't know for sure how true that is or what it entails but it's just a safer bet (albeit still difficult, and really expensive, and good luck matching into anything competitive).