OMA vs RBC Disability Insurance

[12345678]

RBC insurance is being really being sold hard to graduating Med 4s. Would love to know thoughts of others on the pros/cons of OMA vs RBC (or other private) disability insurance and what people ended up choosing.

[skyuppercutt]

I feel that I researched all of them really well before starting residency. Now I'm not an expert obviously, but all the advantages that people say about RBC (personalized and unchangeable) I didn't feel were really big advantages. Especially given that for OMA if it does get changed it'll be by physicians who are current insurance holders. 

I ended up just going with OMA they have a discount so you'll be paying less during residency. Near the end of when I finish, I will reassess and decide if I want to stay or change. That way I'll also know if I'll still be in Ontario or not. So we'll see. Stay tuned!  

[NeuroD]

Agree with above. After doing my research, basically being a group plan carries a theoretical risk or benefit that the OMA board, made up of MDs who decide on insurance issues, changes things for the better or worse.

To date there hasn't been any significant change, and the people who decided are our colleagues. Still a theoretical risk. But brokers blow it way out of proportion as a selling technique.

[BigM]

This is based on a small number of online opinions that I read.  There were a couple of people who indicated that RBC was difficult to deal with when they needed to use the policy.  Additionally, a few people said that OMA (Sunlife I believe) was very straight forward and cooperative.  I opted to go with RBC as an M4 and haven't changed it since.  The numerous talks from insurance brokers was likely a factor in this, and looking back, conflicts of interest were likely involved on their behalf.  They get paid if you go with the RBC plan, they don't if you go OMA. I can't say for certain what I would go with now if I were to re-choose, but I'm probably siding towards OMA.  One thing to keep in mind is that over the past few years the rebates on the OMA disability insurance has been lower as the usage of the policies for disability leaves has been increasing.

[skyuppercutt]

28 minutes ago, BigM said:

rebates on the OMA disability insurance has been lower as the usage of the policies for disability leaves has been increasing.

That's right. Rebates have been lower, but at the same time they actually have rebates. When comparing OMA vs RBC I find that OMA is cheaper anyways, so even if there weren't any rebates you'd still be paying less by going with OMA (assuming your situation is identical to mine). A lot of the insurance brokers used the rebate argument as a reason to not go with OMA saying that the rebate has been decreasing over time. I always took that as a moot point because the other options don't even have a rebate as a possibility (at least the ones I've researched)  

[heydere]

What does it mean by rebate? 

[BigM]

1 hour ago, heydere said:

What does it mean by rebate? 

It's essentially a non-profit plan.  The company that provides the insurance (Sunlife I believe) gets enough to cover the costs of running the plan + a certain amount of profit.  The excess paid by members is refunded back and split among everyone paying into the plan.

[NLengr]

I actually have some disability through OMA and some through another company. There was some reason we set it up that way after the kids where born but for the life of me I can't remember why.

[LostLamb]

It is a little off topic, but as someone struggling to get covered right now for life, critical illness, (and probably disability when I am staff beyond the max I pushed for at start of residency) if there is anything without medical with optional riders to increase without medical my advise is just make sure you get something. Non-medical association or MD-affiliated plans are much much cheaper--believe me.

your age will never be lower than it is today. likely, your health is pretty darn good too.

I am kicking myself for not upping my coverages sooner.

[holiday1001]

simple thing: get minimum (500$) coverage with RBC and cover the rest with OMA. That way you lock in the 25% discount, and can choose lots of options without medical.

[NeuroD]

7 hours ago, holiday1001 said:

simple thing: get minimum (500$) coverage with RBC and cover the rest with OMA. That way you lock in the 25% discount, and can choose lots of options without medical.

I did the same.

[LittleDaisy]

9 hours ago, holiday1001 said:

simple thing: get minimum (500$) coverage with RBC and cover the rest with OMA. That way you lock in the 25% discount, and can choose lots of options without medical.

Does OMA disability insurance ask for medical? Do people usually get 2 DI? What's the advantage of having RBC and OMA?

From my understanding, when something do happen to you, it could get complicated deciding who pays what and how much between 2 insurance companies?

[NeuroD]

No medical as long as you start before end of residency. OMA has the theoretical risk of changes to the plan because it's a group plan, not a contract between you and the provider. Realistically the changes are made by a group of insured docs...so, and I've pressed several brokers to provide examples of negative changes over that last 40 years, and they have none. In fact it seems all of the changes have been positive (lower fees, fee reimbursement). Makes sense since it's our colleagues, and not the insurance company, that makes the changes. It still is theoretical risk, so insurance brokers make a big deal out of it because they get way more commission if you go with RBC.

[holiday1001]

On 5/6/2019 at 8:20 PM, PhD2MD said:

No medical as long as you start before end of residency. OMA has the theoretical risk of changes to the plan because it's a group plan, not a contract between you and the provider. Realistically the changes are made by a group of insured docs...so, and I've pressed several brokers to provide examples of negative changes over that last 40 years, and they have none. In fact it seems all of the changes have been positive (lower fees, fee reimbursement). Makes sense since it's our colleagues, and not the insurance company, that makes the changes. It still is theoretical risk, so insurance brokers make a big deal out of it because they get way more commission if you go with RBC.

I believe the RBC has better options (I don't rmb if it's  COLA, long term conversion at elderly age, etc). As well, in the long run, when you coverage your half a million dollar salary, the OMA step program will run out, while the 25% discount is there.

 

Why would you NOT get both? It just makes no sense. The companies will pay out according to how much you've covered with each company, is my understanding.

[QuestionsAbound]

Is there anything negative about the RBC disability plan compared to the OMA? They seemed quite comparable externally and the talk from the OMA at our school was not amazing.

Upfront costs for the OMA seemed higher, but had the possibility of having fees returned. RBC upfront costs were less if doing a level cost for many years. It was unclear if this was an option for the OMA.

13 hours ago, holiday1001 said:

I believe the RBC has better options (I don't rmb if it's  COLA, long term conversion at elderly age, etc). As well, in the long run, when you coverage your half a million dollar salary, the OMA step program will run out, while the 25% discount is there.

 

Why would you NOT get both? It just makes no sense. The companies will pay out according to how much you've covered with each company, is my understanding.

I was advised to cancel the OMA insurance when I got the RBC insurance, but I'm not sure why.

Unrelated: outside of each other, are there any good resources for learning more about the types of insurance and how to compare plans? I find I’m making decisions about disability with biased information presented by brokers with something to gain.

[holiday1001]

On 5/8/2019 at 1:10 PM, QuestionsAbound said:

Is there anything negative about the RBC disability plan compared to the OMA? They seemed quite comparable externally and the talk from the OMA at our school was not amazing.

Upfront costs for the OMA seemed higher, but had the possibility of having fees returned. RBC upfront costs were less if doing a level cost for many years. It was unclear if this was an option for the OMA.

I was advised to cancel the OMA insurance when I got the RBC insurance, but I'm not sure why.

Unrelated: outside of each other, are there any good resources for learning more about the types of insurance and how to compare plans? I find I’m making decisions about disability with biased information presented by brokers with something to gain.

Upfront cost for OMA are MUCH lower. about 1/3rd the premium, if you opt for the step-rate.

There is no reason to cancel coverage that I can see, unless you simply don't need it.

[hero147]

I heard the OMA rebates were 0% for the last year or 2 and has been steadily declining over the last 10 years or so (down from like 20%?). People are saying that premiums will increase as a result.

When I did the cost analysis between OMA and RBC when I was deciding, I think I came to the conclusion that OMA is cheaper upfront meanwhile RBC is cheaper in the long run when you disregard the OMA rebates/potential premium increases. However, it is also highly dependent on your age, the older you are, the more favourable it is for you to stick with OMA. The younger you are, the more favourable it is for you to stick with RBC.

Also keep in mind, when you choose either RBC or OMA, that you should probably stick with it for the rest of your career for most people as you will never be as young or as healthy as you are today. And as people have alluded to before, insurance brokers do make commission off the rbc product, so take what they say with a grain of salt.

[NeuroD]

1 hour ago, hero147 said:

I heard the OMA rebates were 0% for the last year or 2 and has been steadily declining over the last 10 years or so (down from like 20%?). People are saying that premiums will increase as a result.

When I did the cost analysis between OMA and RBC when I was deciding, I think I came to the conclusion that OMA is cheaper upfront meanwhile RBC is cheaper in the long run when you disregard the OMA rebates/potential premium increases. However, it is also highly dependent on your age, the older you are, the more favourable it is for you to stick with OMA. The younger you are, the more favourable it is for you to stick with RBC.

Also keep in mind, when you choose either RBC or OMA, that you should probably stick with it for the rest of your career for most people as you will never be as young or as healthy as you are today. And as people have alluded to before, insurance brokers do make commission off the rbc product, so take what they say with a grain of salt.

OMA does not charge any premium for starting with hem later. If your 50, you'd pay the same rate whether you signed up with them at 20 of 50.

[Lactic Folly]

To me, the fact that rebates have been declining is a reassuring sign - that is, claims are being approved.

[skyuppercutt]

 

 

 

2 hours ago, hero147 said:

When I did the cost analysis between OMA and RBC when I was deciding, I think I came to the conclusion that OMA is cheaper upfront meanwhile RBC is cheaper in the long run when you disregard the OMA rebates/potential premium increases. However, it is also highly dependent on your age, the older you are, the more favourable it is for you to stick with OMA. The younger you are, the more favourable it is for you to stick with RBC.

While what you are saying is true, there are a couple of caveats that I kept in mind when making a decision. 

When I made calculations as well, I also found that OMA was cheaper than RBC when I was younger, but when I get older the step rate for OMA would surpass the cost of RBC which would remain the same. That being said, OMA was much much cheaper than RBC was, so when I calculated how many years I would have to be with OMA until it's cost supassed that of RBC I found that it would be something like a decade or so until I just broke even. I decided that financially for me it would make sense to stick with OMA, because the money that I would save from paying into my RBC premium, I could instead use to pay off my student loans (save on interest) OR invest for it to grow. So, in the long run I may even continue to profit from this difference because it would grow with compound interest. Another thing I thought about is that, after 10 years or so when the cost of being with OMA rises I will be making signigicantly more money as an attending and would financially be in a better place that the difference wouldn't really matter at that point, because I'd have more money anyway.

2 hours ago, hero147 said:

Also keep in mind, when you choose either RBC or OMA, that you should probably stick with it for the rest of your career for most people as you will never be as young or as healthy as you are today.

While it's true that you'll never be as young or healthy as you are today, when you decide to increase your premiums, because you're making more money, they will use your age at the time when you increase your premiums NOT the age you used to sign up for the insurance plan, which is something none of the insurance brokers mentioned unless I specifically asked for it and pressed them.

I'll just briefly explain this since it's a bit complicated:

If RBC offers you $1,000 of disability insurance for $10 per month when you're 25, but it costs $50 per month when you're 35, some people will be like okay sign me up at age 25. Now you finish residency at age 35 and are working and wanna get another $1,000 coverage so you have $2,000 in total and you call up you're friendly broker and be like hey, hook me up with some more coverage, they will then say that you will now have to pay $60 per month ($10 from when you're 25 and $50 because you're 35 now), you won't get it for $20 in total, which is what they make it seem like.

So ya, just my $0.02 

[hero147]

1 hour ago, PhD2MD said:

OMA does not charge any premium for starting with hem later. If your 50, you'd pay the same rate whether you signed up with them at 20 of 50.

Depends on whether or not you're on a level or step rate. Step rate has bands and often costs more over the long term vs level rates depending on your age.

31 minutes ago, skyuppercutt said:

While what you are saying is true, there are a couple of caveats that I kept in mind when making a decision. 

When I made calculations as well, I also found that OMA was cheaper than RBC when I was younger, but when I get older the step rate for OMA would surpass the cost of RBC which would remain the same. That being said, OMA was much much cheaper than RBC was, so when I calculated how many years I would have to be with OMA until it's cost supassed that of RBC I found that it would be something like a decade or so until I just broke even. I decided that financially for me it would make sense to stick with OMA, because the money that I would save from paying into my RBC premium, I could instead use to pay off my student loans (save on interest) OR invest for it to grow. So, in the long run I may even continue to profit from this difference because it would grow with compound interest. Another thing I thought about is that, after 10 years or so when the cost of being with OMA rises I will be making signigicantly more money as an attending and would financially be in a better place that the difference wouldn't really matter at that point, because I'd have more money anyway.

While it's true that you'll never be as young or healthy as you are today, when you decide to increase your premiums, because you're making more money, they will use your age at the time when you increase your premiums NOT the age you used to sign up for the insurance plan, which is something none of the insurance brokers mentioned unless I specifically asked for it and pressed them.

I'll just briefly explain this since it's a bit complicated:

If RBC offers you $1,000 of disability insurance for $10 per month when you're 25, but it costs $50 per month when you're 35, some people will be like okay sign me up at age 25. Now you finish residency at age 35 and are working and wanna get another $1,000 coverage so you have $2,000 in total and you call up you're friendly broker and be like hey, hook me up with some more coverage, they will then say that you will now have to pay $60 per month ($10 from when you're 25 and $50 because you're 35 now), you won't get it for $20 in total, which is what they make it seem like.

So ya, just my $0.02 

I know, thats why people tell you to max your coverage to lock in 4000 or 4500 at age 25 vs 30 when you're an attending because youre paying a 25 year old rate on that initial 4k-4.5k.

Honestly, between the 2 options you can't go wrong. For reference, I went with RBC in the end after weeks of listening to insurance brokers when I was in 4th year.

[QuestionsAbound]

****NOTE****** the account this post was previously replying to has since had their posts deleted, I am not referencing the person who is directly above me.
 

*******

 

To counter the account above which has only ever posted content supporting RBC.....

OMA was cheaper for me until I turned 58, not taking into account the refunds OMA gives. I don’t particularly need disability insurance once I’m 55. What ultimately drove me to not use RBC was the horrific selling practices such as posting on online forums and not stating outright that they work for RBC while under anonymous accounts.

Be informed about your choices, and what matters most to you. Personally, I found the plans comparable enough that the despicable sales practices made me choose to go with OMA. Give whomever you are considering a call and talk to both companies, and be skeptical of everything.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LostLamb]

I went with the provincial medical association's plan...RBC wasn't too vocal at my school. It is fine. It has been cost effective. Most important is to get in there while you don't need a medical. things change FAST...and you're never younger than you are today.

[itsgoingtibiaokay7]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:03 AM, holiday1001 said:

simple thing: get minimum (500$) coverage with RBC and cover the rest with OMA. That way you lock in the 25% discount, and can choose lots of options without medical.

On 5/6/2019 at 10:52 AM, NeuroD said:

I did the same.

On 5/7/2019 at 11:42 PM, holiday1001 said:

I believe the RBC has better options (I don't rmb if it's  COLA, long term conversion at elderly age, etc). As well, in the long run, when you coverage your half a million dollar salary, the OMA step program will run out, while the 25% discount is there.

 

Why would you NOT get both? It just makes no sense. The companies will pay out according to how much you've covered with each company, is my understanding.

I just wanted to revisit this point, could someone please explain the benefit and process of having double coverage through OMA and RBC?