MOH cuts overseas medical schools approved for practise in Singapore

[Edict]

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/moh-cuts-overseas-medical-schools-approved-for-practise-in-11459004

On the very off chance you wanted to practice in Singapore one day, you should read this news. Singapore faces similar pressures as Canada. Medical school entry in Singapore is highly competitive, more than in Canada. In the past, singaporeans who couldn't get in at home went abroad. In the last few years the government has expanded enrollment and as a result wants to limit the number of foreign trained students and doctors coming back to Singapore

Canadian schools cut from approval: 

CANADA

• Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Ottawa
• Faculty of Medicine, Queen’s University
• Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry, University of Western Ontario
• College of Medicine, University of Saskatchewan
• Faculté de Médecine, Université Laval
• Faculté de Médecine, Université de Sherbrooke
• Faculty of Medicine, Dalhousie University

 

Canadian schools that are still approved: 
http://www.healthprofessionals.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider2/default-document-library/list-of-registrable-basic-(1-jan-2020)-medical-qualifications---effective-from-1-jan-2020.pdf

[indefatigable]

Well, that's a game-changer :p.  Wouldn't want to get caned for violating the revised list!

[indefatigable]

19 minutes ago, COMMANDO said:

Why these schools and not others? It’s pretty far fetched for Singaporeans to seek admission in a country where medicine is not direct entry. Most that don’t get into NUS or NTU go to England or Australia. 

Probably research reputation.  NUS & NTU spend a lot of money for Western researchers to visit, give talks, etc..  I imagine the remaining schools have the higher research rankings - doesn't make the most sense for clinical medicine.

[Snowmen]

Pretty funny that they would remove my school considering that:

1) there's probably never been a single singaporean student here.

2) considering the nearly non-existent spots for international students, there's pretty much no chance of that ever happening.

Anyways, it's interesting to know but it probably will never have any impact on someone reading this board.

[la marzocco]

2 hours ago, Edict said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/moh-cuts-overseas-medical-schools-approved-for-practise-in-11459004

On the very off chance you wanted to practice in Singapore one day, you should read this news. Singapore faces similar pressures as Canada. Medical school entry in Singapore is highly competitive, more than in Canada. In the past, singaporeans who couldn't get in at home went abroad. In the last few years the government has expanded enrollment and as a result wants to limit the number of foreign trained students and doctors coming back to Singapore

Canadian schools cut from approval: 

CANADA

• Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Ottawa
• Faculty of Medicine, Queen’s University
• Schulich School of Medicine & Dentistry, University of Western Ontario
• College of Medicine, University of Saskatchewan
• Faculté de Médecine, Université Laval
• Faculté de Médecine, Université de Sherbrooke
• Faculty of Medicine, Dalhousie University

 

Canadian schools that are still approved: 
http://www.healthprofessionals.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider2/default-document-library/list-of-registrable-basic-(1-jan-2020)-medical-qualifications---effective-from-1-jan-2020.pdf

The to-be-excluded list is kinda arbitrary.. lol 

[indefatigable]

36 minutes ago, la marzocco said:

The to-be-excluded list is kinda arbitrary.. lol 

Probably based on a research ranking like this:

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/canada/clinical-medicine

 

[Edict]

17 hours ago, COMMANDO said:

Maybe this should re-start the conversation whether we should exclude certain international medical schools like the Singaporean MOH is. 

The singaporean MOH way of doing this is specific but not sensitive. Graduates of the schools on that list more or less are reasonable quality schools, but certainly it is a butcher's approach to delicate hand surgery and there are plenty of graduates around the world who are not on the list who would make better doctors than those who are on the list. 

If it was singapore's mission to actually reduce the number of students coming back from low entry standard schools they should have cut more vigorously from Australia's list as entry standards for some of the big Australian schools like UQ, Sydney, Melbourne are very low (for international students) despite good rankings. I surmise that what really happened was lobbying from vested interests where singaporeans actually go (UK, Australia) meant that cuts to those schools were more limited and a THE/USNWR style ranking system was used to cull the rest. 

If the argument for Canada to cut stems from wanting to discourage reputable medical schools from "cashing out" and offering low entry standards to fee paying internationals, I am slightly more for that as long as there is enough warning so that those currently in the system are exempted. I will admit I don't like it when schools with a research reputation like UQ, USyd, Melbourne, RCSI, SGUL to name a few turn the medical education system into a business. It's done as a way for these institutions to make a quick buck but I think it hurts a lot of people along the way. 

BC actually has/had a system whereby only graduates from English speaking countries like UK/Aus/Ire/NZ were able to do electives, but I don't think that really addresses the issue whereby the aforementioned schools are lowering their entry standards in order to make a quick buck. At the same time, it is unfair to graduates of other countries that do deserve a chance but aren't given one. 

[la marzocco]

35 minutes ago, Edict said:

The singaporean MOH way of doing this is specific but not sensitive. Graduates of the schools on that list more or less are reasonable quality schools, but certainly it is a butcher's approach to delicate hand surgery and there are plenty of graduates around the world who are not on the list who would make better doctors than those who are on the list. 

If it was singapore's mission to actually reduce the number of students coming back from low entry standard schools they should have cut more vigorously from Australia's list as entry standards for some of the big Australian schools like UQ, Sydney, Melbourne are very low (for international students) despite good rankings. I surmise that what really happened was lobbying from vested interests where singaporeans actually go (UK, Australia) meant that cuts to those schools were more limited and a THE/USNWR style ranking system was used to cull the rest. 

If the argument for Canada to cut stems from wanting to discourage reputable medical schools from "cashing out" and offering low entry standards to fee paying internationals, I am slightly more for that as long as there is enough warning so that those currently in the system are exempted. I will admit I don't like it when schools with a research reputation like UQ, USyd, Melbourne, RCSI, SGUL to name a few turn the medical education system into a business. It's done as a way for these institutions to make a quick buck but I think it hurts a lot of people along the way. 

BC actually has/had a system whereby only graduates from English speaking countries like UK/Aus/Ire/NZ were able to do electives, but I don't think that really addresses the issue whereby the aforementioned schools are lowering their entry standards in order to make a quick buck. At the same time, it is unfair to graduates of other countries that do deserve a chance but aren't given one. 

In the other direction, HK is mulling to broadening the grant expedience to practise for "top 50" medical schools in the world. https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/2186262/allow-specialist-doctors-trained-overseas-practise

 

[Edict]

3 minutes ago, la marzocco said:

In the other direction, HK is mulling to broadening the grant expedience to practise for "top 50" medical schools in the world. https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/2186262/allow-specialist-doctors-trained-overseas-practise

 

"Doctors trained at the world’s top 50 or 100 medical schools should be allowed to practise in Hong Kong without taking another exam, on condition they were equipped with a specialist qualification and were of Hong Kong descent."

[la marzocco]

2 minutes ago, Edict said:

"Doctors trained at the world’s top 50 or 100 medical schools should be allowed to practise in Hong Kong without taking another exam, on condition they were equipped with a specialist qualification and were of Hong Kong descent."

http://harbourtimes.com/2019/02/21/policy-makers-clash-doctors-addressing-doctor-shortage/

Has a bit more - even mentions a bit on Singapore too.

Drawing Commonwealth peers

Dr Alfred Wong Yam-hong, a member of local doctor group Médecins Inspirés, suggested using a reciprocal recognition programme for doctors from the Commonwealth countries that Hong Kong adopted before the 1997 handover.

“It is feasible and convenient. The reciprocal recognition programme can attract Hong Kong doctors who received their medical training in the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to return to serve Hong Kongers,” he added.

After the programme was scrapped, the number of new doctors registered annually dropped from 523 from 1990 to 1996 to 316 between 2004 and 2010, according to pathologist Dr Feng Chi-shun.

But many argue that bringing back this programme could be difficult.

“First is political concerns, given that Hong Kong is part of China now. Second is that many doctors worry their mainland counterparts would demand the same treatment,” Prof Felice Lieh Mak, former chairwoman of the Medical Council Professor, told the media last Saturday.

[Edict]

Also I would add that HK has 1.9 doctors per 100,000, while Canada has around 2.7 per 100,000. 

[la marzocco]

2 minutes ago, Edict said:

Also I would add that HK has 1.9 doctors per 100,000, while Canada has around 2.7 per 100,000. 

In Canada, still significant interprovincial variability for that ratio - further magnified by urban/rural divide. Regardless both are < OECD avg.

[insomnias]

Returning to the topic of Singapore, it's actually interesting to look at what they've cut outside of Canada. RCSI, UiO, UNIL, CWRU, UVA and UTSA come as surprises to me. Those are all pretty good schools. Then again, the odds of someone learning Norwegian to study medicine at UiO and then moving to Singapore to practise are pretty low.

[Edict]

45 minutes ago, insomnias said:

Returning to the topic of Singapore, it's actually interesting to look at what they've cut outside of Canada. RCSI, UiO, UNIL, CWRU, UVA and UTSA come as surprises to me. Those are all pretty good schools. Then again, the odds of someone learning Norwegian to study medicine at UiO and then moving to Singapore to practise are pretty low.

I agree broadly but within Ireland, RCSI is not actually considered a very desirable school to attend. One, because it isn't attached to a university which limits the social atmosphere of the school, but also because the school itself has really commercialized itself over the years, the vast majority of their students are international and paying very high fees. There are very few Irish reserved spots at RCSI and their entry standards for international students are lower. Not to say the school is bad, but just to say that it isn't better than any of the other irish schools that were or were not cut.