.

[alrightythen]

.

[Instagrammar]

4 minutes ago, dryorku said:

Even though I feel like I made a strong impression on him, I'm certain he's going to forget a lot about me by July (2 months + he's very busy).

Is there any way I could get him to write it now, instead of in July? What would you do in this situation?

Anyone know if other schools in Canada have their portal for applying open sooner than July? I was thinking I could apply to that school for the sole purpose of having him write it sooner than later, then of course just using that letter for when July comes around.

Usually the references you select have known you long enough that 2 months will not mitigate any impression you have made, and should not minimize your contributions. Unfortunately, the reference form is highly confidential in that we as applicants are not allowed to know the contents of the reference, what is asked for, and what is said. I recommend setting up an in person meeting (if possible) to remind them you will be sending a reference form (assuming they approve to be your reference), see what their own experience with OMSAS reference forms are, and just remind them of some contributions you might want included or elaborated on. 

If you have been working with this professor for >2 years I would not worry about a 2 month gap. In fact, you can send UofT's guidelines for clusters that can help direct how they formulate the reference letter. I attached this link https://applymd.utoronto.ca/non-academic-requirements to each reference request as a follow up to make it clear what aspects needed to be addressed in the reference form. This gives both direction, and facilitates them using specific examples of your contributions. 

 

However, if you have known this reference for a short period of time (perhaps only 5 months) I would reconsider who you are choosing. 

[alrightythen]

4 minutes ago, Instagrammar said:

Usually the references you select have known you long enough that 2 months will not mitigate any impression you have made, and should not minimize your contributions. Unfortunately, the reference form is highly confidential in that we as applicants are not allowed to know the contents of the reference, what is asked for, and what is said. I recommend setting up an in person meeting (if possible) to remind them you will be sending a reference form (assuming they approve to be your reference), see what their own experience with OMSAS reference forms are, and just remind them of some contributions you might want included or elaborated on. 

If you have been working with this professor for >2 years I would not worry about a 2 month gap. In fact, you can send UofT's guidelines for clusters that can help direct how they formulate the reference letter. I attached this link https://applymd.utoronto.ca/non-academic-requirements to each reference request as a follow up to make it clear what aspects needed to be addressed in the reference form. This gives both direction, and facilitates them using specific examples of your contributions. 

 

However, if you have known this reference for a short period of time (perhaps only 5 months) I would reconsider who you are choosing. 

It's a professor I had this semester.

I just don't know 3 people for references for >2 years, during my undergrad. I only have 1 reference who I've worked with for 1.5 years. 

[Instagrammar]

1 minute ago, dryorku said:

It's a professor I had this semester.

I just don't know 3 people for references for >2 years, during my undergrad. I only have 1 reference who I've worked with for 1.5 years. 

That is understandable. If you live near your university, or don't mind a commute closer to July, arrange an in person meeting rather than exchanging discourse over email. I think that will be a better opportunity for you to discuss the goals of the reference, and it's more personable that way. 

[Butterfly_]

Not to worry. When July comes, send him a reminder email with your resume and write some of the highlights you had during the semester. This should be enough to jog his memory. I asked for references from a prof I haven’t spoken to in over 10 years and it was fine.

[chiynadoll]

49 minutes ago, dryorku said:

Even though I feel like I made a strong impression on him, I'm certain he's going to forget a lot about me by July (2 months + he's very busy).

Is there any way I could get him to write it now, instead of in July? What would you do in this situation?

Anyone know if other schools in Canada have their portal for applying open sooner than July? I was thinking I could apply to that school for the sole purpose of having him write it sooner than later, then of course just using that letter for when July comes around.

Tbh most professors that I've encountered, write their letters as close to the deadline as possible. Even if the OMSAS portal opened earlier, its not due until late September and so it could take him months to get to that point too. 

I echo Butterfly_, just send him an email in July as soon as it opens, with your resume/CV and maybe an assignment that you did well in. I don't think I was very memorable, but most profs have experience with writing letters, and understand the process to a degree.

[robclem21]

19 hours ago, dryorku said:

Even though I feel like I made a strong impression on him, I'm certain he's going to forget a lot about me by July (2 months + he's very busy).

Is there any way I could get him to write it now, instead of in July? What would you do in this situation?

Anyone know if other schools in Canada have their portal for applying open sooner than July? I was thinking I could apply to that school for the sole purpose of having him write it sooner than later, then of course just using that letter for when July comes around.

Is this just a professor from a course your took, or have you done any extra work with him? In my experience reviewing LORs, the letters where applicants were simply a student in a lecture/seminar-based course are typically the weakest.

[alrightythen]

On 4/26/2019 at 8:12 AM, robclem21 said:

Is this just a professor from a course your took, or have you done any extra work with him? In my experience reviewing LORs, the letters where applicants were simply a student in a lecture/seminar-based course are typically the weakest.

I hear what you're saying, and if this was like a 200 people class and the professor hardly knew my name, I can see why that letter would be impersonal, generic, bland. But this was a 4th year course with about 30 students at the most. I was one of two people who got an A+, I had perfect attendance, I was by far the most active student in terms of asking questions about material and readings.

If my professor mentioned a few of those things would that make for an alright letter? I know that a longer relationship would have been better, but to be honest I'm just out of options for my 3rd letter.

(Also, congrats on your acceptance! that is so motivational)

[robclem21]

9 hours ago, dryorku said:

I was one of two people who got an A+, I had perfect attendance, I was by far the most active student in terms of asking questions about material and readings.

If my professor mentioned a few of those things would that make for an alright letter? I know that a longer relationship would have been better, but to be honest I'm just out of options for my 3rd letter.

To be honest, none of those things (attendance, asking questions) are very impressive to me, and the A+ in the context of a reference letter is fairly redundant to your transcript, regardless of how the rest of the class did. Furthermore, none of them are criteria for which LORs are given a strong score (particularly based on UofTs scoring sheet)

LORs are evaluated on and should focus on CANMEDs roles (leadership, communication, professionalism, etc.). Unless your professor can speak to those qualities with hard examples, I would find someone else. There has to be someone else you've worked with closely in some capacity that can speak to those.

[porcupine]

On 4/29/2019 at 10:19 AM, robclem21 said:

To be honest, none of those things (attendance, asking questions) are very impressive to me, and the A+ in the context of a reference letter is fairly redundant to your transcript, regardless of how the rest of the class did. Furthermore, none of them are criteria for which LORs are given a strong score (particularly based on UofTs scoring sheet)

LORs are evaluated on and should focus on CANMEDs roles (leadership, communication, professionalism, etc.). Unless your professor can speak to those qualities with hard examples, I would find someone else. There has to be someone else you've worked with closely in some capacity that can speak to those.

-

[IMislove]

44 minutes ago, porcupine said:

Is it okay to by-pass an "academic reference" altogether then? (For OMSAS, if they aren't very helpful for illustrating CANMEDs roles). Could we instead submit 3 strong volunteer or work letters? Perhaps giving them a copy of our transcript to touch on our academic strengths as well?

I never understood the purpose of an "academic" reference as our transcripts should already show that we are capable of good grades. 

Profs you’ve done research for, that’s good academic ref that can also talk about personal qualities. Some schools would like an academic, and explicitly state it. Just follow the school sites and what they say about it.

[robclem21]

4 hours ago, porcupine said:

Is it okay to by-pass an "academic reference" altogether then? (For OMSAS, if they aren't very helpful for illustrating CANMEDs roles). Could we instead submit 3 strong volunteer or work letters? Perhaps giving them a copy of our transcript to touch on our academic strengths as well?

I never understood the purpose of an "academic" reference as our transcripts should already show that we are capable of good grades. 

Anything is "okay". You can submit 3 academic references (research supervisor, graduate supervisor, prof, committee member etc.), or 3 non-academic (volunteer, employment, etc.), or any combination of above. The important thing is that BETWEEN the 3 letters, you are able to cover all of the CANMEDS roles (or UofT clusters). No single LOR needs to speak to every quality, but between all of them, the reader should be able to put together a picture of you as a whole. An employer talking about your grades because you gave them a transcript would be weird, so I would say its not necessary to comment on "academic ability" unless its their direct role with you. 

As IM posted above, an academic letter doesn't only comment on grades. It can comment on awards/presentations (scholar), it can comment on communication (written, oral), it can talk about teamwork (within your lab, with other labs). This is why letters from just "profs" are often weak. They can only talk about how you did in their course with no further insight. These letters, like anything else you include/exclude from your application, are about judgment. You need to make appropriate choices.

As an example, I used my MSc supervisor (academic - talked about research, communication, teamwork), volunteer supervisor (volunteer - talked about leadership, advocacy, communication, teamwork), and work boss (employment - talked about communication, professionalism). 

[alrightythen]

14 hours ago, robclem21 said:

 To be honest, none of those things (attendance, asking questions) are very impressive to me, and the A+ in the context of a reference letter is fairly redundant to your transcript, regardless of how the rest of the class did. Furthermore, none of them are criteria for which LORs are given a strong score (particularly based on UofTs scoring sheet)

 LORs are evaluated on and should focus on CANMEDs roles (leadership, communication, professionalism, etc.). Unless your professor can speak to those qualities with hard examples, I would find someone else. There has to be someone else you've worked with closely in some capacity that can speak to those.

Any advice on what I should do for my 3rd letter? i have the first from my PI who've I've done research for, my second is from a >2 year volunteering commitment, and the third one i don't know. I dont have any thing else I've been doing long term.

[robclem21]

5 hours ago, dryorku said:

Any advice on what I should do for my 3rd letter? i have the first from my PI who've I've done research for, my second is from a >2 year volunteering commitment, and the third one i don't know. I dont have any thing else I've been doing long term.

Like I said, it's a personal choice and only you can really make a judgment on who would can best talk about your personal qualities and why you would make a good physician. I imagine in the last 5 years you should know more than 2 people in a professional context at a personal level who can speak to you. Have you volunteered anywhere else, have you held a job where you worked closely with your supervisor, have you done any other research or belonged to any other community organizations on/off campus, even in a non-leadership role. Worst case, use your prof if you "have to", but consider other options first IMO.