Matched into my 8th choice

[jnuts]

19 hours ago, peace2014 said:

I think applying to US residencies as CDN Med students are not as easy as we think. First, CaRMs come first, so you automatically get removed from the US match and for most people, they had to take a fairly big risk to rank US programs ONLY. Also, US residency programs value prestige and USMLE scores, so unless you come from a big name med school and totally own the USMLE (which is difficult to study for in CDN schools since they dont teach the material. But honestly, they should and faculty should encourage students to take USMLEs..), your chance IMO are low. We tend to think our med schools are some of the best in the world, but US PDs have a huge bias towards US applicants and they want to see heavy research. Someone should protest to make CaRMs match after NRMP though...

I don't think the US is a viable option for backing up if you'd like to return to Canada one day.  There are some specialties that are more competitive in the US than Canada (Ortho); I assume there are reciprocal situations where it may be easier to match which may be why this route is discussed at all.  But, I'm really not aware of any. I think the 30 odd Canadian grads who match in the US each year are primarily the US students McGill recruits (https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/categories/int/post-graduate-residencies).    

I assume no one is going to the US from Canada for FM with the goal of repatriating, so I'm not going to speak about that.

If your goal is to return to Canada as a specialist, then looking ahead to your RC exams, choosing the US would be a potential disaster.  Canadians--in an odd clandestine and yet open way-- hand down RC review materials and a substantial amount of time in the final years of residency is spent on practical coaching for the orals.    Without these resources I think the RC exams would be close to impossible.

On the flip side, Canadians can pass US board exams as most of the material is public and the exam structure is very different.  If you're looking to keep your options open on both sides of the border, residency in Canada with a US fellowship is your best bet.

If your goal is to relocate to the US permanently, then I suppose a US residency is a viable option if your chosen specialty is less competitive in the US than Canada.  However, I think you'd be 'red-flagged' out of most truly competitive matches as a perceived IMG no matter how strong your application is unless you had a strong personal backer in the program.  There is more objective data available to Residency selection committees in the US, but ultimately there's still a post-algorithmic adjustment of the ROL which is entirely human. 

Those McGill matches in the link above speak to that to a certain extent.  That list looks no different than those from a top Caribbean or European school. 

 

 

[peace2014]

4 hours ago, jnuts said:

I don't think the US is a viable option for backing up if you'd like to return to Canada one day.  There are some specialties that are more competitive in the US than Canada (Ortho); I assume there are reciprocal situations where it may be easier to match which may be why this route is discussed at all.  But, I'm really not aware of any. I think the 30 odd Canadian grads who match in the US each year are primarily the US students McGill recruits (https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/categories/int/post-graduate-residencies).    

I assume no one is going to the US from Canada for FM with the goal of repatriating, so I'm not going to speak about that.

If your goal is to return to Canada as a specialist, then looking ahead to your RC exams, choosing the US would be a potential disaster.  Canadians--in an odd clandestine and yet open way-- hand down RC review materials and a substantial amount of time in the final years of residency is spent on practical coaching for the orals.    Without these resources I think the RC exams would be close to impossible.

On the flip side, Canadians can pass US board exams as most of the material is public and the exam structure is very different.  If you're looking to keep your options open on both sides of the border, residency in Canada with a US fellowship is your best bet.

If your goal is to relocate to the US permanently, then I suppose a US residency is a viable option if your chosen specialty is less competitive in the US than Canada.  However, I think you'd be 'red-flagged' out of most truly competitive matches as a perceived IMG no matter how strong your application is unless you had a strong personal backer in the program.  There is more objective data available to Residency selection committees in the US, but ultimately there's still a post-algorithmic adjustment of the ROL which is entirely human. 

Those McGill matches in the link above speak to that to a certain extent.  That list looks no different than those from a top Caribbean or European school. 

 

 

Umm, the list doesn't look so bad, some Mass Gen, BWH. UCSF, Yale on the list. Def better than top Carribean schools. Does McGill really have A LOT of American students or are the medical students there like to apply to US residencies in general?

[jnuts]

2 hours ago, peace2014 said:

Umm, the list doesn't look so bad, some Mass Gen, BWH. UCSF, Yale on the list. Def better than top Carribean schools. Does McGill really have A LOT of American students or are the medical students there like to apply to US residencies in general?

I just don't think that many Canadian grads intending to return to Canada attempt to complete residency in the US.  Canadians studying abroad get stuck in the US a lot,  but that's not really relevant here other than mentioning they rarely make it home.

In terms of match quality, most foreign schools recruiting Americans can boast of similar matches.  At least they do in my experience.  Notably McGill, just like every other foreign school, doesnt provide it's overall match back statistics. Also, typically of 'offshore schools' the reported matches are spread over several years and it doesnt look like they've been updated in a decade. 

Someone from McGill can comment on the overall numbers but I think "a LOT" is a generous phrasing.  There were 12 Canadian matches to PGY1 US programs this year in total.  I think a fair number of those were the McGill group and a fair portion of the rest dual citizens or such. 

I brought it up as there is a population of Americans at a Canadian school--which recruits American students to generate revenue--that may colour the match statistics and viability of the US pathway as reported in this thread.  

[RadCdn]

On 7/28/2019 at 6:33 PM, jnuts said:

I don't think the US is a viable option for backing up if you'd like to return to Canada one day.  There are some specialties that are more competitive in the US than Canada (Ortho); I assume there are reciprocal situations where it may be easier to match which may be why this route is discussed at all.  But, I'm really not aware of any. I think the 30 odd Canadian grads who match in the US each year are primarily the US students McGill recruits (https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/applying/categories/int/post-graduate-residencies).    

I assume no one is going to the US from Canada for FM with the goal of repatriating, so I'm not going to speak about that.

If your goal is to return to Canada as a specialist, then looking ahead to your RC exams, choosing the US would be a potential disaster.  Canadians--in an odd clandestine and yet open way-- hand down RC review materials and a substantial amount of time in the final years of residency is spent on practical coaching for the orals.    Without these resources I think the RC exams would be close to impossible.

On the flip side, Canadians can pass US board exams as most of the material is public and the exam structure is very different.  If you're looking to keep your options open on both sides of the border, residency in Canada with a US fellowship is your best bet.

If your goal is to relocate to the US permanently, then I suppose a US residency is a viable option if your chosen specialty is less competitive in the US than Canada.  However, I think you'd be 'red-flagged' out of most truly competitive matches as a perceived IMG no matter how strong your application is unless you had a strong personal backer in the program.  There is more objective data available to Residency selection committees in the US, but ultimately there's still a post-algorithmic adjustment of the ROL which is entirely human. 

Those McGill matches in the link above speak to that to a certain extent.  That list looks no different than those from a top Caribbean or European school. 

 

 

Passing the Royal College exams after doing a residency in the US is completely doable, certainly for Internal Medicine. I did my residency in NYC, then passed the Royal College exams. You are correct that without the Canadian study materials it is almost impossible to pass that test. However, one does not need to do their residency in Canada to get these materials. One can get these materials if you know people doing residency in Canada. I studied with two other international grads doing their residencies in the US. We all shared the Canadian study materials with one another. All of us passed the test. 

 

[RadCdn]

On 7/29/2019 at 12:59 AM, jnuts said:

I just don't think that many Canadian grads intending to return to Canada attempt to complete residency in the US.  Canadians studying abroad get stuck in the US a lot,  but that's not really relevant here other than mentioning they rarely make it home.

In terms of match quality, most foreign schools recruiting Americans can boast of similar matches.  At least they do in my experience.  Notably McGill, just like every other foreign school, doesnt provide it's overall match back statistics. Also, typically of 'offshore schools' the reported matches are spread over several years and it doesnt look like they've been updated in a decade. 

Someone from McGill can comment on the overall numbers but I think "a LOT" is a generous phrasing.  There were 12 Canadian matches to PGY1 US programs this year in total.  I think a fair number of those were the McGill group and a fair portion of the rest dual citizens or such. 

I brought it up as there is a population of Americans at a Canadian school--which recruits American students to generate revenue--that may colour the match statistics and viability of the US pathway as reported in this thread.  

Having gone through the US route, I know many Canadians that did their residency in the US. Most stay in the US due to the abundant job opportunities and many of them marry Americans. They are certainly not stuck there. From the IM perspective, it is not hard to come back to Canada. The question is, who would want to? The US is an amazing country in so many ways. I came back because I had nothing holding me there in terms of my private life or job. My family is still in Canada so I came back. 

[jnuts]

51 minutes ago, RadCdn said:

Having gone through the US route, I know many Canadians that did their residency in the US. Most stay in the US due to the abundant job opportunities and many of them marry Americans. They are certainly not stuck there. From the IM perspective, it is not hard to come back to Canada. The question is, who would want to? The US is an amazing country in so many ways. I came back because I had nothing holding me there in terms of my private life or job. My family is still in Canada so I came back. 

That's all fair.  I'm a surgeon so my perspective is a bit different.