Incoming McMaster medical student convicted of voyeurism

[Mathmaximum 2]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/amp/news/crime/2019/07/11/toronto-police-release-photo-of-man-arrested-in-eaton-centre-voyeurism-investigation.html

[anonymouspls 259]

His medical career is over, surely (would be very confusing if that’s not the case)

[conbrio 124]

At his court proceedings, this guy will quickly type out a detailed 300 word response at a rate of 120 WPM making sure to carefully assess all aspects of his situations and carefully craft a reply that takes into account different perspectives, doesn't hurt the judge's feelings, and provides a best outcome for everybody.

[anonymouspls 259]

1 minute ago, conbrio said:

At his court proceedings, this guy will quickly type out a detailed 300 word response at a rate of 120 WPM making sure to carefully assess all aspects of his situations and carefully craft a reply that takes into account different perspectives, doesn't hurt the judge's feelings, and provides a best outcome for everybody.

Lol cases like this demonstrate how spectacularly wrong medical schools are if they think they're doing anything to select for the desired soft skills they're looking for

[Instagrammar 154]

26 minutes ago, conbrio said:

At his court proceedings, this guy will quickly type out a detailed 300 word response at a rate of 120 WPM making sure to carefully assess all aspects of his situations and carefully craft a reply that takes into account different perspectives, doesn't hurt the judge's feelings, and provides a best outcome for everybody.

Don’t forget about the 132 in CARS required to critically assess the placement of cameras 

[blah1234 149]

I don't think he will have a career path in medicine if he is guilty of those charges. I wonder if the school will wait for the results of the investigation and just postpone his attendance until they can act with more facts and evidence. The last thing you want is to deal with the aftermath if he is deemed innocent. 

[GH0ST 507]

He could still try to go IMG route and maybe shuffle his way back if he escapes a thorough enough background check...quite a scary prospect

- G

[betterlattethannever 13]

How do you guys know he was an incoming Mac med?

[Bambi 1,764]

17 minutes ago, blah1234 said:

I don't think he will have a career path in medicine if he is guilty of those charges. I wonder if the school will wait for the results of the investigation and just postpone his attendance until they can act with more facts and evidence. The last thing you want is to deal with the aftermath if he is deemed innocent. 

He is presumed innocent unless snd until he either pleads guilty or is found to be guilty in a court of law. Accordingly, he likely will be able to do his studies with a heavy cloud over his head. If found guilty, he will be expelled or int event will not be permitted to practice.

Assuming he is found guilty, better at this stage rather than bring physicians into disrepute by acting unethically with his potential future patients.

 

[maverick5 13]

9 minutes ago, betterlattethannever said:

How do you guys know he was an incoming Mac med?

Quick Google search gives his LinkedIn

[blah1234 149]

13 minutes ago, Bambi said:

He is presumed innocent unless snd until he either pleads guilty or is found to be guilty in a court of law. Accordingly, he likely will be able to do his studies with a heavy cloud over his head. If found guilty, he will be expelled or int event will not be permitted to practice.

Assuming he is found guilty, better at this stage rather than bring physicians into disrepute by acting unethically with his potential future patients.

 

Schools have the discretion to change the terms of the admission if they have good cause. I feel like if he's been charged with a sex crime and will likely be under bail conditions I would err on the side of just delaying his admission. I wouldn't want to be the administrator that let in a student who will be found guilty and I don't want a student to be discriminated during his studies if he is found innocent. I feel like that's just opening yourself to legal liabilities if he is allowed to attend.

[avocado_toast 41]

Incoming medical students are required to submit a police record check. I highly doubt that Hamilton Health Sciences would give anyone with this type of charge a hospital ID badge or access to patients. The police released his name and photo - I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have done that if they thought there was a chance he was innocent or if it could be someone else. I’m certain the medical school is already aware of the situation.

If found guilty, it would be impossible for him to ever be a medical doctor in Canada. Voyeurism is a sexual offence.

My thoughts are with the victims. Ugh, it’s so gross  

 

[anonymouspls 259]

5 hours ago, avocado_toast said:

Incoming medical students are required to submit a police record check. I highly doubt that Hamilton Health Sciences would give anyone with this type of charge a hospital ID badge or access to patients. The police released his name and photo - I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t have done that if they thought there was a chance he was innocent or if it could be someone else. I’m certain the medical school is already aware of the situation.

If found guilty, it would be impossible for him to ever be a medical doctor in Canada. Voyeurism is a sexual offence.

My thoughts are with the victims. Ugh, it’s so gross  

 

Ya, based on my (light) reading on the subject, it sounds like they have a tape recording of him planting a recording device in a unisex changing room.

 

If he's guilty (very likely at this point) this dude should not be trusted with being a gas station clerk (no disrespect) let alone a medical doctor. 

 

Also, it's very likely that he's done this before, this was just the time he got caught. I hope police are doing a deep dive on his hard drive and internet history.

[X Æ A-12 141]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:45 AM, ysera said:

Also, it's very likely that he's done this before, this was just the time he got caught. I hope police are doing a deep dive on his hard drive and internet history.

I did not know Sean Evans worked for the police  

[anonymouspls 259]

53 minutes ago, swoman said:

I did not know Sean Evans worked for the police  

ha I wish. Though I am a pepper / hot sauce enthusiast at the peril of my skin.

[djdtoronto 1]

http://criminalnotebook.ca/index.php/Voyeurism_(Sentencing_Cases)

This link ^ has all the resulting sentences of voyeurism in Canada. A few of them resulted in something called "Conditional discharge". If this is the case, it only shows up on his criminal record for 1-3 years. Do you think he'd be able to reapply to med school afterwards and gain admission? 

 

[X Æ A-12 141]

On 7/13/2019 at 11:39 PM, djdtoronto said:

http://criminalnotebook.ca/index.php/Voyeurism_(Sentencing_Cases)

This link ^ has all the resulting sentences of voyeurism in Canada. A few of them resulted in something called "Conditional discharge". If this is the case, it only shows up on his criminal record for 1-3 years. Do you think he'd be able to reapply to med school afterwards and gain admission? 

 

I believe they ask you if you have been offered admission to medical school on any medical school application (I know this is for sure true in the US). If you have been offered admission and are reapplying that is a HUGE red flag. Plus at some point (maybe not in med school but for sure for CaRMS), someone is going to Google his name and his mugshot and the article is the only thing that will pop up since it is so unique. 

[Jeffery089 3]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/que-md-suspended-for-filming-naked-patients-1.1047542

 

Still practicing, at the same institutions.

 

Where the student went wrong was not waiting a few years until he was already a physician, then he would have been fine.

[LittleDaisy 288]

7 hours ago, Jeffery089 said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/que-md-suspended-for-filming-naked-patients-1.1047542

 

Still practicing, at the same institutions.

 

Where the student went wrong was not waiting a few years until he was already a physician, then he would have been fine.

In Ontario, his license would have been stripped away by CPSO and will never be allowed to practice. You would be surprised how each provincial's licensing college acts differently.

Quebec's College des Medecins assumes that the doctors are innocent until proven otherwise, and they don't publish a patient' accusations of a physician or upcoming committee trials online. They only publish when a doctor has been found to be guilty after the discipline committee's hearings or when a doctor has been sanctioned. CMQ tends to dismiss more frivolous accusations to save time and for efficiency.

Where CPSO assumes that you are guilty until proven otherwise and will publish the facts that lead to your upcoming licensing committee's hearing. 

[Jeffery089 3]

7 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

In Ontario, his license would have been stripped away by CPSO and will never be allowed to practice. You would be surprised how each provincial's licensing college acts differently.

Quebec's College des Medecins assumes that the doctors are innocent until proven otherwise, and they don't publish a patient' accusations of a physician or upcoming committee trials online. They only publish when a doctor has been found to be guilty after the discipline committee's hearings or when a doctor has been sanctioned. CMQ tends to dismiss more frivolous accusations to save time and for efficiency.

Where CPSO assumes that you are guilty until proven otherwise and will publish the facts that lead to your upcoming licensing committee's hearing. 

Interesting. In this case though, it wasn't a presumption of innocence, they had proof and he admitted to doing it and the reason why (that's in the article as well). I'd like to believe that most provinces would strip him of his license, not suspend him for a couple months and that's that. Hopefully you're right that that only happened because it's Quebec, although that's still profoundly depressing.

[LittleDaisy 288]

2 hours ago, Jeffery089 said:

Interesting. In this case though, it wasn't a presumption of innocence, they had proof and he admitted to doing it and the reason why (that's in the article as well). I'd like to believe that most provinces would strip him of his license, not suspend him for a couple months and that's that. Hopefully you're right that that only happened because it's Quebec, although that's still profoundly depressing.

What I am more concerned about is that CPSO in Ontario, they highly punish physicians from any sort of inappropriate actions and publish their "presumed behaviours" online without proving that they are guilty on the first case. Or they punish heavily for frivolous behaviours that shouldn't have been looked at in the first place. 

For example, a few physicians were suspended of their licenses because they published inappropriate social comments after the fruitless OMA negotiation with Liberal government. This is outrageous, because they are sanctioning what physicians do with their freedom of speech outside of their professional lives. Are CPSO monitoring physicians outside of their work to ensure that they act as a "physician" in their personal lives? Are they tracking down physicians on social media? In other professions, this would be regarded as a breach of our privacy and freedom of speech. 

https://justanoldcountrydoctor.com/2018/09/19/can-the-cpso-regain-the-trust-of-physicians/

I will not embarrass these physicians more by linking to media reports, but I will state for that record that the following physicians were disciplined, paid at least $10,000 each to the CPSO, and publicly shamed:

• one physician, who replied to an anonymous email address with “stop sending me these f$%@#$ emails”
• A physician who called Health Minster Eric Hoskins a “reichmaster” on facebook
• Another physician who called Hoskins a “F@$% P#$&*” on facebook
• A physician, who told a clearly inappropriate joke on a private electronic forum"

This makes me worried to how far CPSO goes to monitor physicians outside of their professional lives on social media, for them to look "respectable" and highly "just" to the public?

[conbrio 124]

I mean, people in other professions get fired all the time for mouthing off on social media. At this point in time you can no longer get away with saying stuff online that you wouldn't say face to face to your coworkers or your boss. There is no longer a boundary, especially when your social media can be linked to your profession.

And I'm not sure freedom of speech is supposed to protect you from the consequences of your actions (any lawyers here), such as when receiving disciplinary actions for being unprofessional.

[rmorelan 2,572]

3 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

What I am more concerned about is that CPSO in Ontario, they highly punish physicians from any sort of inappropriate actions and publish their "presumed behaviours" online without proving that they are guilty on the first case. Or they punish heavily for frivolous behaviours that shouldn't have been looked at in the first place. 

For example, a few physicians were suspended of their licenses because they published inappropriate social comments after the fruitless OMA negotiation with Liberal government. This is outrageous, because they are sanctioning what physicians do with their freedom of speech outside of their professional lives. Are CPSO monitoring physicians outside of their work to ensure that they act as a "physician" in their personal lives? Are they tracking down physicians on social media? In other professions, this would be regarded as a breach of our privacy and freedom of speech. 

https://justanoldcountrydoctor.com/2018/09/19/can-the-cpso-regain-the-trust-of-physicians/

I will not embarrass these physicians more by linking to media reports, but I will state for that record that the following physicians were disciplined, paid at least $10,000 each to the CPSO, and publicly shamed:

• one physician, who replied to an anonymous email address with “stop sending me these f$%@#$ emails”
• A physician who called Health Minster Eric Hoskins a “reichmaster” on facebook
• Another physician who called Hoskins a “F@$% P#$&*” on facebook
• A physician, who told a clearly inappropriate joke on a private electronic forum"

This makes me worried to how far CPSO goes to monitor physicians outside of their professional lives on social media, for them to look "respectable" and highly "just" to the public?

Ha the CPSO sees no separation between professional the private lives. It is all the same thing. 

Freedom of speech only applies to the government blocking you from saying something - CPSO really takes that to heart. It is an organization you join with their particular rules - and they really like their rules and you can follow them or leave basically. 

sometimes that leads to abuse of power I think - we are all supposed to fight that internally but of course that is difficult to do.  

[blah1234 149]

13 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

What I am more concerned about is that CPSO in Ontario, they highly punish physicians from any sort of inappropriate actions and publish their "presumed behaviours" online without proving that they are guilty on the first case. Or they punish heavily for frivolous behaviours that shouldn't have been looked at in the first place. 

For example, a few physicians were suspended of their licenses because they published inappropriate social comments after the fruitless OMA negotiation with Liberal government. This is outrageous, because they are sanctioning what physicians do with their freedom of speech outside of their professional lives. Are CPSO monitoring physicians outside of their work to ensure that they act as a "physician" in their personal lives? Are they tracking down physicians on social media? In other professions, this would be regarded as a breach of our privacy and freedom of speech. 

https://justanoldcountrydoctor.com/2018/09/19/can-the-cpso-regain-the-trust-of-physicians/

I will not embarrass these physicians more by linking to media reports, but I will state for that record that the following physicians were disciplined, paid at least $10,000 each to the CPSO, and publicly shamed:

• one physician, who replied to an anonymous email address with “stop sending me these f$%@#$ emails”
• A physician who called Health Minster Eric Hoskins a “reichmaster” on facebook
• Another physician who called Hoskins a “F@$% P#$&*” on facebook
• A physician, who told a clearly inappropriate joke on a private electronic forum"

This makes me worried to how far CPSO goes to monitor physicians outside of their professional lives on social media, for them to look "respectable" and highly "just" to the public?

Freedom of speech just refers to your right to not have your speech censored by the government. However, in Canada there are even limits to that right as you cannot promote things like hate speech.

As a self-regulated professional (accountant, lawyer, physician, etc) you enjoy privileges (such as a monopoly in a field) that the majority of society does not, thus the college must protect the public from transgressions that we make in our lives. We are not alone in the fact that many regulated professionals have to deal with representing the profession well even in their public lives. We give up a lot of the protections that workers receive because we are professionals and that is the trade-off you have to make when becoming a doctor.  There are also practical benefits for the public regarding a independent college such as removing the need for public funding for regulation, or having a mechanism that disciplines doctors when their poor care does not lead to a negative outcome (problems with fulfilling all the requirements for the negligence tort).

I can't blame the CPSO for doing their job as that is what is necessary to maintain trust from the public and the government. If anything I think the media shows how lax other provincial colleges are which makes the profession look bad to the public. Unfortunately, it is a necessary evil and I feel the lesser one. I think being regulated by the government like in other countries would be far more oppressive. 

[HisLovePerfects 6]

On 7/16/2019 at 1:47 PM, rmorelan said:

Freedom of speech only applies to the government blocking you from saying something - CPSO really takes that to heart. It is an organization you join with their particular rules - and they really like their rules and you can follow them or leave basically.

 

On 7/16/2019 at 11:36 PM, blah1234 said:

Freedom of speech just refers to your right to not have your speech censored by the government. However, in Canada there are even limits to that right as you cannot promote things like hate speech.

The CPSO is acting on behalf of the government, so it is bound by the Charter (which provides for freedom of expression).