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If you were raised with the notion that drinking in a sin, should you drink when out with friends?


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1 minute ago, ilikebirds said:

Even if you don't feel particularly strong about the moral implications of drinking, if you spent most of your life ignorant about drinking culture and behaviour, is it best to just avoid it in your 20s as well? 

Yeah. I have no moral/religious objections but I've just never enjoyed the taste/feeling. For a short period of time in my 20s I thought I should start trying for social reasons. Still couldn't enjoy it. In a few short years it became cool/acceptable not to drink again. So just skip it.

Also, bad for your health. Win win.

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It is actually a bit surprising how many people now at days don't drink at all - considering the shear volume of advertising etc. 

I never saw the appeal of things with an "acquired test" - that just sounds like unnecessary pain ha. 

and beyond some groups in med school there isn't a big drinking culture in medicine - it has a lot of negative associations in the field. 

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On 8/22/2019 at 11:41 AM, rmorelan said:

It is actually a bit surprising how many people now at days don't drink at all - considering the shear volume of advertising etc. 

I never saw the appeal of things with an "acquired test" - that just sounds like unnecessary pain ha. 

and beyond some groups in med school there isn't a big drinking culture in medicine - it has a lot of negative associations in the field. 

-

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4 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

That is great to hear. As silly as this may sound, one of the main things that deterred me for pursuing fields like law, business, accounting, engineering (ie "corporate jobs") would be having to avoid going out for drinks, drinks after work, drinks for networking/business trips, etc lol

ha not in medicine - most of those fields you mentioned have have negotiations or "bonding" sessions. 

One of the weird things in medicine is how you from an income point of view kind of only get promoted once . You become staff and well there you go. You do have to develop your rooster of patients, and so on but that is relatively easy and permanent compared to other fields. You can advance academically and that is its own rat race but that doesn't really boost your income. you can  get small bumps for admin things etc, but unlike the other fields you are basically done. So there is less of this "networking" i.e. drinking at a bar/club.

You also for the most part operated independently. Sure you can "hang out" with doctors but really that is almost completely social (again from a business point of view - you cannot really do a lot of the other things business have to do to advance.)

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47 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

and beyond some groups in med school there isn't a big drinking culture in medicine - it has a lot of negative associations in the field. 

Specialty specific. Lotsa drinking in my specialty. Having worked in the corporate world in engineering, I would say it's no more or less than in my non medicine life. The only difference is because you don't have a "boss", you get less expectations to go out to social work events. But pretty much every journal club, meeting and conference will have an open bar avaliable for anyone who wants a drink. But nobody cares if you do have a drink or not.

Medicine is like the rest of society. Most people drink. Some drink to much. Some don't drink at all.

"Drinking culture" I often find is used by people describing what essentially is student drinking (aka getting smashed on the weekend and going out to bars). That does off a ton once you move out of your 20's, especially once kids come along.

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30 minutes ago, freewheeler said:

In my experience lots of med school social events were held at bars and revolved around drinking. Usually it was the same group of classmates who attended these.

Wasn't that interesting.

Yeah I will say Med school for some can be different - I have heard a bunch of reasons for that. People didn't party in premed because the all consuming pressure on the GPA etc, ha people always toss in the pass/fail system there suggesting less pressure/more free time, and just the entire prolong celebration of getting in (just to name a few). 

I don't know what is is like at every school but once clerkship hit things "sobered up" pretty fast. Except for match day - definitely except for match day. 

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17 hours ago, rmorelan said:

Yeah I will say Med school for some can be different - I have heard a bunch of reasons for that. People didn't party in premed because the all consuming pressure on the GPA etc, ha people always toss in the pass/fail system there suggesting less pressure/more free time, and just the entire prolong celebration of getting in (just to name a few). 

I don't know what is is like at every school but once clerkship hit things "sobered up" pretty fast. Except for match day - definitely except for match day. 

When I had a med student doing a rotation with me this year over her match day. I gave her the day off. And then the next day off to sober up/sleep.

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2 hours ago, NLengr said:

When I had a med student doing a rotation with me this year over her match day. I gave her the day off. And then the next day off to sober up/sleep.

that was wise. well and also kind. 

I know the admins are all against this - probably because they feel it is on some level encouraging a party etc. 

But really I think it is probably a good idea - med students are distracted before the match and thus not useful (or even worse dangerous), and there is a real chance any of them may not match and thus be even more distracted the day after. Plus yes there is going to be a party ha. 

I don't care what they have to do to make up those 2 days (and in an accredited system they would have to). Figure it out......

Real short term memories here on people who matched 20 years ago and now are running things :) 

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I don't have a religious obligation against drinking personally but I always found the taste disgusting so I never really drank. Last time I had alcohol was close to 3 years ago. I really don't get how people could stomach the taste, I know you don't drink it for its taste but it's just so disgusting. 

Any way I don't think you should be pressured into doing anything you don't want. I had a group of friends that were drinkers, and I had no problem hanging out with them, I just didn't drink. It meant I was often the designated driver, but that comes with its own benefits (hah)

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1 hour ago, ysera said:

I don't have a religious obligation against drinking personally but I always found the taste disgusting so I never really drank. Last time I had alcohol was close to 3 years ago. I really don't get how people could stomach the taste, I know you don't drink it for its taste but it's just so disgusting. 

Any way I don't think you should be pressured into doing anything you don't want. I had a group of friends that were drinkers, and I had no problem hanging out with them, I just didn't drink. It meant I was often the designated driver, but that comes with its own benefits (hah)

Maybe you're drinking crappy booze! :lol:

Dedicated DD is an awesome friend to have. 

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I personally hate drinking. I wasn't allowed to drink before due to religious reasons, but I have drank in high school and university a couple of times, from "peer pressure", but I could have been smarter. I hated it, the taste, how it made you feel, how it made you do stupid things, how it made you look foolish in front of others, how it makes people social in a "fake" way. You do not need to drink to be social. No offense, but drinking is mostly a huge Western or European culture. Go to places like Bangladesh, India, and other Asian countries, and people do not drink at all, but they have more celebrations with friends and families, are more social with each other, laughing more, and basically having more fun, more than most Western "corporate parties" anyway. It could be due to culture, but I understand my religion better now for banning alcohol. There are a lot of car accidents, rapes, fights, just idiotic things that happen, and many other drawbacks that occur while drinking. If you are the only one not drinking when out with friends, just observe others and see how foolish they act. It is like the world is going backwards instead of forwards haha. Also, you don't need a glass of wine to "relax", do yoga or something, it is better for your health. You also feel depressed after drinking, and like you shouldn't have done it, which is clearly a sign. Sorry if this sounds biased, but I personally did try drinking, and hated it. Most smart people do not do it, because it has way more negatives than a few temporary positives. You are not exactly doing anything productive by drinking. If you are doing it to simply have fun, there are a lot of other ways to do that without damaging brain cells, and feeling depressed afterwards.

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There's a real difference between 'drinking' and enjoying alcohol. My partying days are long, long behind me (I started clubbing at the age of 15 since I lived overseas). But at the time it was fun, I treated it for what it was, a time to escape, have fun with friends in a common context.

Don't write it off though, and certainly don't judge others for enjoying it more than you do. There's no need to impose your own values/principles on others.

Getting into wine and beer and cocktails in an enthusiast sort of way as you get older is just like enjoying good food and coffee, though. I used to think of alcohol as just that, a drug, but I actually give a shit about having a good drink now. High-end cocktail bars are amazing, finding wines that punch above their weight class is fun, and I'm always down for a brewery tour or wine tour.

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17 hours ago, afnanjuma said:

I personally hate drinking. I wasn't allowed to drink before due to religious reasons, but I have drank in high school and university a couple of times, from "peer pressure", but I could have been smarter. I hated it, the taste, how it made you feel, how it made you do stupid things, how it made you look foolish in front of others, how it makes people social in a "fake" way. You do not need to drink to be social. No offense, but drinking is mostly a huge Western or European culture. Go to places like Bangladesh, India, China, and other Asian countries, and people do not drink at all, but they have more celebrations with friends and families, are more social with each other, laughing more, and basically having more fun, more than most Western "corporate parties" anyway. It could be due to culture, but I understand my religion better now for banning alcohol. There are a lot of car accidents, rapes, fights, just idiotic things that happen, and many other drawbacks that occur while drinking. If you are the only one not drinking when out with friends, just observe others and see how foolish they act. It is like the world is going backwards instead of forwards haha. Also, you don't need a glass of wine to "relax", do yoga or something, it is better for your health. You also feel depressed after drinking, and like you shouldn't have done it, which is clearly a sign. Sorry if this sounds biased, but I personally did try drinking, and hated it. Most smart people do not do it, because it has way more negatives than a few temporary positives. You are not exactly doing anything productive by drinking. If you are doing it to simply have fun, there are a lot of other ways to do that without damaging brain cells, and feeling depressed afterwards.

Not to nitpick, I can't speak for India, but drinking is a HUGE part in Chinese and Japanese friend/family culture (and from what I hear, also for Korean?), I'd even argue more so than Western countries - yes we have bad Asian glow but that doesn't stop people from going to bars + drinking a ton at KTVs lol. We drink and talk a lot but don't club/party/hookup as much.

As I child I was given alcohol at family gatherings from the age of 12 and asked to drink to "be festive and not ruin the mood" (no age restriction for alcohol in mainland China, you can ask a 5 year old child to buy beer and the sellers can give it to them without any legal repercussions) 

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31 minutes ago, Vivieeeeeee said:

Not to nitpick, I can't speak for India, but drinking is a HUGE part in Chinese and Japanese friend/family culture (and from what I hear, also for Korean?), I'd even argue more so than Western countries - yes we have bad Asian glow but that doesn't stop people from going to bars + drinking a ton at KTVs lol. We drink and talk a lot but don't club/party/hookup as much.

As I child I was given alcohol at family gatherings from the age of 12 and asked to drink to "be festive and not ruin the mood" (no age restriction for alcohol in mainland China, you can ask a 5 year old child to buy beer and the sellers can give it to them without any legal repercussions) 

Oh really? Sorry I did not know that. Most of my Asian friends absolutely hate drinking and tries to avoid it all the time, so I assumed. I was mostly referring to China though.

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5 minutes ago, afnanjuma said:

Oh really? Sorry I did not know that. Most of my Asian friends absolutely hate drinking and tries to avoid it all the time, so I assumed. I was mostly referring to China though.

I don't know how CBC's operate here (I guess with the ultra-religious ones they don't want to drink) but what you said is definitely not true about mainland China and international students here. We're conservative, but not in the sense of drinking. I am not trying to single or call you out - I just want to clear up this misconception that Chinese people are all "goody shoes" who don't drink/scared talk to the opposite sex/only do math etc etc. I lived in mainland for 15+ years so I am fairly confident I can speak for our lifestyle.

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1 hour ago, Vivieeeeeee said:

I don't know how CBC's operate here (I guess with the ultra-religious ones they don't want to drink) but what you said is definitely not true about mainland China and international students here. We're conservative, but not in the sense of drinking. I am not trying to single or call you out - I just want to clear up this misconception that Chinese people are all "goody shoes" who don't drink/scared talk to the opposite sex/only do math etc etc. I lived in mainland for 15+ years so I am fairly confident I can speak for our lifestyle.

Yes, like I said, most of my friends who are Asians did that, so I only had them to refer to.  Thanks for letting me know though.

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On 8/23/2019 at 8:54 PM, afnanjuma said:

Go to places like Bangladesh, India, China, and other Asian countries, and people do not drink.....

 

Most smart people do not do it, because it has way more negatives than a few temporary positives. 

Uuuuuhhhh, 2010 data shows South Korea consuming more alcohol than France, the UK or Germany. China and Japan are also in the middle of the pack by country if you look at per capita consumption. 

 

Your second statement is also incorrect and just sounds condescending.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-drink-more-alcohol

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