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How much do family doctors actually make?


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44 minutes ago, canada747 said:

That logic is flawed. It's not that the majority of people want those jobs, it's that there are a few jobs and slightly more people than jobs, creating demand. The # of people who want the jobs > the # of jobs -> demand. Not that the # of people who want academic jobs > # of people who want clinical/basic medical practice jobs.

I think in many cases it isn't that people want academic jobs vs say community jobs - it is that is in a lot of the major cities people would like to live the majority of the jobs are academic. Not everyone is mobile and can move to just anywhere. As an example if you have to work in ottawa for whatever reason - well the vast majority of the jobs there are academic. 

I know a ton of "academic" doctors that want nothing to do with academia. They are just dragged into it for other reasons. 

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Come back when you’re a 4th year med student 300K in the hole and panicking about government funding cuts to doctors and how there’s no jobs, and how you’re about to blow 10K+ on a trans Canada interv

This is more entertaining than studying. I don’t even need to go on re ddddd itttt for the Luls now, just hit up good ollll prem101.

Our messiah seems to have arrived lmao

1 hour ago, rmorelan said:

I think in many cases it isn't that people want academic jobs vs say community jobs - it is that is in a lot of the major cities people would like to live the majority of the jobs are academic. Not everyone is mobile and can move to just anywhere. As an example if you have to work in ottawa for whatever reason - well the vast majority of the jobs there are academic. 

I know a ton of "academic" doctors that want nothing to do with academia. They are just dragged into it for other reasons. 

In some cases in some fields I should also mention it really is a case of way too many applicants for the jobs available at academic site. Always hard to generalize the job market ha, it is pretty complex :)

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7 hours ago, canada747 said:

That logic is flawed. It's not that the majority of people want those jobs, it's that there are a few jobs and slightly more people than jobs, creating demand. The # of people who want the jobs > the # of jobs -> demand. Not that the # of people who want academic jobs > # of people who want clinical/basic medical practice jobs.

Leaving Fam docs aside a lot of sub specialties would ideally be academic if they could mainly because of the city factor - if you want to work in the 6ix or Ottawa you have way more academic options.  
 

if you want to Barrie then clearly you aren’t going to be an academic. 
 

but how many people want to work and live in big cities?

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6 hours ago, Raptors905 said:

Leaving Fam docs aside a lot of sub specialties would ideally be academic if they could mainly because of the city factor - if you want to work in the 6ix or Ottawa you have way more academic options.  
 

if you want to Barrie then clearly you aren’t going to be an academic. 
 

but how many people want to work and live in big cities?

Barrie is a community hospital, they do have FM residents btw!

I have considered academic career because I love teaching medical students, the downside of being paid 20-30% and politics, and having annual reviews/less flexibility pushed me away. 

There are a lot of staff physicians in academics who don't love teaching and don't give a crap about learners, but there are a lot of doctors who care about medical education and make a positive impact. It's not about prestige per say, but impacting the next generation of physicians, so the culture of "hardcore" medicine doesn't repeat. 

You can always get involved in teaching in community hospital/clinics, the opportunity is just less. 

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2 hours ago, LittleDaisy said:

Barrie is a community hospital, they do have FM residents btw!

I have considered academic career because I love teaching medical students, the downside of being paid 20-30% and politics, and having annual reviews/less flexibility pushed me away. 

There are a lot of staff physicians in academics who don't love teaching and don't give a crap about learners, but there are a lot of doctors who care about medical education and make a positive impact. It's not about prestige per say, but impacting the next generation of physicians, so the culture of "hardcore" medicine doesn't repeat. 

You can always get involved in teaching in community hospital/clinics, the opportunity is just less. 

It’s hard to stomach working more and being paid less for sure. 

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On 10/10/2019 at 8:56 PM, windsormd1 said:

Well I'll tell you what; I'm netting hopefully ~260k cad this year in my 5d/week practice. I average 35-40 patients a day in the GTA. This is after overhead projections.  The job I'm looking at in the USA is going to be $260k USD Salary; 4.5 day work week; CME of $5k; full benefits; 401k contribution of 10k from the company; 4 weeks off; 12 paid holidays.  Also,patient volume will be 18-22 patients a day with a 1 hour lunch break.  This is in a MAJOR metro on the east coast; not NYC, but the DC area.........to me it's a no brainer...........to each their own.........and these jobs are a dime a dozen all over..........in MAJOR metros

I am wondering whether the difference in a residency duration is an obstacle. Do they accept FMDs with 2 years training?

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1 hour ago, #YOLO said:

first year of practice..will have made around 420k post overhead, with probably 1 week off ever month and a half

Thats interesting... I have a few of questions.

  1. Do you work in a FFS or capitation model? 
  2. What is your overhead rate?
  3. Do you practice in a rural setting or downtown/urban setting? In Ontario?
  4. How many days do you work in a week?
  5. How many patients do you see in a day on average?
  6. Do you have any additional services that you provide i.e. hospitalist, ER, OB, Palliative, surgical assisting etc?
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On 1/16/2020 at 10:58 PM, Raptors905 said:

It’s hard to stomach working more and being paid less for sure. 

I don't think academic guys work more than community. Plus, they also have residents and fellows who do a ton of work for them and shield them on call. 

My buddy is an academic IM guy, and even covering general IM call in a tertiary center, he is in there was less than I am as a community surgeon in a rural center because he has residents protecting him.

The way I look at academic vs community is you get paid less in the academic world for a trade off of less crap cases, residents/fellows to do all your scut/call work and a large community in which to live. 

***just realized this convo was probably specific to FM. My comments are more general***

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56 minutes ago, youngmoneycrops said:

Thats interesting... I have a few of questions.

  1. Do you work in a FFS or capitation model? 
  2. What is your overhead rate?
  3. Do you practice in a rural setting or downtown/urban setting? In Ontario?
  4. How many days do you work in a week?
  5. How many patients do you see in a day on average?
  6. Do you have any additional services that you provide i.e. hospitalist, ER, OB, Palliative, surgical assisting etc?

mix of ffs (clinics, high volume), capitation in hospitals

overhead varies 20-30% for clinics, none in hospital

work in urban settings 

work probably 4-5 days a week on average, compress a lot of my work into set blocks of time

pt volumes are high

do some hospitalist work and urgent care

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17 hours ago, #YOLO said:

mix of ffs (clinics, high volume), capitation in hospitals

overhead varies 20-30% for clinics, none in hospital

work in urban settings 

work probably 4-5 days a week on average, compress a lot of my work into set blocks of time

pt volumes are high

do some hospitalist work and urgent care

Not really sustainable; it's good $; but most docs would want to poke their eyes out with that much volume and that mix of settings.......

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On 3/8/2020 at 6:28 PM, #YOLO said:

mix of ffs (clinics, high volume), capitation in hospitals

overhead varies 20-30% for clinics, none in hospital

work in urban settings 

work probably 4-5 days a week on average, compress a lot of my work into set blocks of time

pt volumes are high

do some hospitalist work and urgent care

Which province are you at? How do you manage to be so efficient? Please feel free to PM :)

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On 3/8/2020 at 6:28 PM, #YOLO said:

mix of ffs (clinics, high volume), capitation in hospitals

overhead varies 20-30% for clinics, none in hospital

work in urban settings 

work probably 4-5 days a week on average, compress a lot of my work into set blocks of time

pt volumes are high

do some hospitalist work and urgent care

how many (unpaid) hours do you spend doing paperwork?

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