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11 hours ago, NLengr said:

Exactly what was predicted and not surprising. 

My ultra conservative cousins/aunts/uncles are gonna have some interesting facebook posts.

I agree...the polls were accurate for the most part! 

 

4 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

13 seats away from a majority....only reason there wasn't a majority again was because of the surge of the BQ. LOL, where are all these haters on the last thread that got locked? 

We could very well have another election in 2 years (sigh) and Canada is very divided. West of the Ontario-Manitoba border, its mostly conservative with very minimal liberal seats mostly in Vancouver. East of the border, its mostly liberal with BQ and very minimal Conservatives. On top of that, most of the premiers are conservatives, which does not seem good for provincial-federal relations. I have a very bad feeling about the progress (or lack of) in the next few years.

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Pretty interesting night. A large young voter turnout coincided with St. John's East going NDP. Fredericton went Green (!). Big-timers Goodale (LP) and Raitt (CP) both lost their seats. Jane Philpott lost hers, while JWR kept hers. Bernier was the only party leader to lose his seat. Liberals started off strong in the East and surprisingly continued to do well. Ontario and Toronto were pretty decisive in favour of Liberals. NDP not so much despite their momentum, but gained representation from Indigenous communities which is great. Voter turn-out only dropped around 2% since 2016. Everything else was about as expected I think. 

I'm excited for a Liberal minority with NDP + Green support. Their platforms agree on the big picture ideas, so with some decent cooperation I'm hopeful  that climate change plans, pharmacare, housing, low to middle class supports, and wealth tax move forward and are improved upon. I think the PC idea of investing in green tech was a good one. I think this should be integrated into job diversification in Alberta, to help working people recover from the oil decline.

Not very concerned with a re-election. NDP's finances are shot and they cannot afford another election, which will encourage them to rely on collaborating with the Liberals as opposed to standing their ground. Liberal + NDP support provides a majority of seats.

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2 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

Im in Alberta, and there are many left (Liberals especially supporters) here. We just don't get any attention because everyone just looks at the map of Alberta as all blue and thinks we are all right leaning. I went to JT's rally in Calgary a few days ago and it was super packed.  Hundreds of supporters could not even get inside. Conservatives won 69% of the popular vote in AB, which sounds like a lot but in reality 31% DID NOT support Conservatives. 

are they conservative over oil or is a cultural thing as well (racism. etc)?

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1 hour ago, gnatcatcher said:

Why are Nova Scotia/Maritimes/etc. (that area) Liberal. I'm from Ontario and not really that much into politics, but I thought they'd be Conservative because they're not very diverse up there. 
 

It's a pretty socially liberal area despite a relative lack of ethnic diversity. When the PCs were a party, they used to do better than the Cons do now because there was far less focus on social conservatism in the PCs.

Newfoundland got in a massive racket with Stephen Harper in the mid 2000s. That sentiment still holds over to an extent even now.

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51 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

mostly racism, sometimes covered by oil/economy issues. 

Albertans voting Conservatives has very little to do with racism and a lot to do with jobs. It's difficult for someone who doesn't live in Alberta to understand how much our economy has tanked with the recession and how many people lost jobs. Ask any Albertan and they surely know someone in the oil and gas industry. 

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4 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

mostly racism, sometimes covered by oil/economy issues. 

When non-whites, immigrants, etc are voting conservative it isn’t because of racism...it’s because of jobs, and those jobs that were intimately tied to oil and gas. Not sure how long you’ve been in Alberta, there was an immense influx of visible minorities and immigrants up to about 5 years ago! 

I agree with @Bebolder... the vote shifted and it was not scapegoating you described.  

As expected—Alberta voted conservative as a reaction to no pipeline progress last time around. 

 

ps. Please note that I am NOT minimizing or denying your experience. I know it happens. It is very real. As the spouse of a visible minority and immigrant I have become extremely aware of the numerous racist micro- and macro-aggressions others experience...it is saddening and frustrating. Be strong, my friend. 

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3 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

I was at the Liberal rally in Calgary a few days ago....you should have read the signs of the protesters....how many times I was told to "go home"  because I was brown and supporting Trudeau, some of the more tame comments....check out some of the white supremacist sites as well to see how some people really feel...It's cute to blame the jobs, I'm sure many vote right because of that....but many use that as a scapegoat for their preference for Alberta/Canada "to stay White" among other things.

As someone who's essentially brown (myself), there's tons of anti-white hate put out by non-white people. Non-whites can get away with saying so many things that would end a white person's reputation. 

And yes white supremacists do exist. Ironically, again as someone who isn't white, I find them drastically easier to get along with and reason with than far-lefties. Put the most radical trump supporter beside your typical far-leftie AOC/Bernie bro Marxist. Me, a brown person, will be on far better terms and actually be able to hold a convo with the Trump guy. The difference is that the far right wingers may be nuts, but will actually be able to have a back and forth convo. The Marxists have 0 tolerance for even hearing opposing ideas and ignite into flames once they smell difference of opinion. 

Both far left/right sides are nuts, but the far-right is far less worse. I don't even think it's a remote comparison. 

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8 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

That is if the the alt-right guy considers you human and wants to talk to you in the first place...hyperbole (?) aside...I do see some of your points tbh

True white supremacists are very rare. Alt-righters aren't that uncommon and ironically hang around with people of colour all the time. 

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4 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

PS - the oil and gas industry is dead and has been for a few years...no government can and should change that...

Oil and Gas is hardly dead, it's still a huge industry. What has happened in Alberta is that it has significanly declined from the crazy boom times of pre-2014. 

I do agree that no government can fix the current economic reality of Oilsands production. 

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8 hours ago, medigeek said:

As someone who's essentially brown (myself), there's tons of anti-white hate put out by non-white people. Non-whites can get away with saying so many things that would end a white person's reputation. 

And yes white supremacists do exist. Ironically, again as someone who isn't white, I find them drastically easier to get along with and reason with than far-lefties. Put the most radical trump supporter beside your typical far-leftie AOC/Bernie bro Marxist. Me, a brown person, will be on far better terms and actually be able to hold a convo with the Trump guy. The difference is that the far right wingers may be nuts, but will actually be able to have a back and forth convo. The Marxists have 0 tolerance for even hearing opposing ideas and ignite into flames once they smell difference of opinion. 

Both far left/right sides are nuts, but the far-right is far less worse. I don't even think it's a remote comparison. 

I'm curious, what makes you 'essentially' brown as opposed to just brown or not? How does this qualify you to make a sweeping generalization that non-whites put out anti-white hate?

Anecdotes aside, I find your logic here confusing. There has been a disproportionately large amount of violence and encouragement of violence from the 'far-right', several instances of mass shootings and murders in the past 2-3 years alone that were carried out by so-called 'far-righters'. Charlottesville is the least of it. It seems nonsensical for you to say both sides are nuts but the far-right is less worse, when the far-right is actively carrying out violence and killing people. How does this make them more reasonable to talk to?

Equating Trump supporters with the far-right is also false. Trump supporters fall along a wide spectrum of demographics and political ideologies, and saying that they are all far-right is not accurate. The Charlottesville killer may have been a Trump supporter, but so is a steel factory worker who supported Trump in 2016 but is currently experiencing buyer's remorse due to being out of a job.

AOC and Bernie Sanders are not even Marxist though? They are social democrats. They want to work within capitalism and do not want workers to own the means of production or have the economy be planned by the people. They are simply advocating for workers' rights, healthcare, affordable housing, a living wage, and other social supports that people need. Marxism is on a totally different level. From what I've seen of the Bernie Sanders primary campaign, their supporters do not 'burst into flames' when talking to people. They seem to be doing a great job of going door to door canvassing, attending townhalls, phonebanking, etc that all require reasoned conversations with people with differences of opinion.

Also, I'm curious as to why are you bringing up American political issues and talking about AOC, Bernie, and Trump in a Canadian politics thread for Canadian premeds? Do you have any Canadian examples to share, or do you live in the United States since you have all these American anecdotes?

8 hours ago, medigeek said:

True white supremacists are very rare. Alt-righters aren't that uncommon and ironically hang around with people of colour all the time. 

You're using the 'No true Scotsman' logical fallacy to claim that white supremacists are rare because they are not 'true' ones. Again, they fall along a spectrum and just because they don't fit within your perfect image of a white supremacist doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

 

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Another reason that I failed to mention is the historical anti-liberal party sentiment in AB harkening back to the PE Trudeau days. Another time when AB was suffering economically and all the blame was set on the liberals. Old habits die hard...many here refused to vote JT even in his first go around just because of his name and the memories he invokes.

 

on the white Supremacists topic—certainly they exist out here...most in pockets in rural AB...again there is historical context for it going back to WWII. However, again I disagree that they are “the” driving force of conservative votes. 

 

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On 10/22/2019 at 11:18 AM, Compton said:

I agree...the polls were accurate for the most part! 

 

We could very well have another election in 2 years (sigh) and Canada is very divided. West of the Ontario-Manitoba border, its mostly conservative with very minimal liberal seats mostly in Vancouver. East of the border, its mostly liberal with BQ and very minimal Conservatives. On top of that, most of the premiers are conservatives, which does not seem good for provincial-federal relations. I have a very bad feeling about the progress (or lack of) in the next few years.

BC has 17 conservatives seats, 11 liberal seats, 11 NDP seats, 2 Green seats and 1 independent seat (Jodie Wilson). 

If you look closely at the Vancouver map, it's mostly Liberals vs NDPS. I wonder if the super high cost of living in Vancouver push people for a more progressive government. The surprising turnout of conservatives vs liberals + NDP in BC show the clashes between the rich upper class and struggling middle classes who can't afford a decent housing?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/22/canada-election-2019-full-results

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