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This is poor advice. Ontario is definitely the most competitive province to get into medical school. Most schools have no in-province application pool and all applicants are in the same pool. Historic

Ikr... Like good god I feel like some people are projecting their own anger and furstration about not getting back into into med onto people who get into USask. I hate how people fetishize suffering. 

I would be a millionaire if I was adopted by Jeff Bezos but here I am, eating ramen with holes in my underwear.  Also, please remember that us SK IP-ers had to GROW UP IN PLACES LIKE REGINA AND P

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1 hour ago, MedicineLCS said:

I'd have to respectfully disagree. For one, 2/5 of the "main" Ontario schools use a cutoff approach. Queens cuts the top 40%, hardly an aggressive cutoff, and Westerns 3.7 isn't bad. Yes, 2 schools use it competitively, but that's only 2/5. McMaster is a bit of a strange case with no drops, but it's only worth 33%. In contrast, your NAQ is 50% of your pre interview score at UBC. 

Leta also not lose sight of the fact that in Alberta A+/A=4, which isn't the case in Ontario. My OMSAS cGPA is lower than my Alberta GPA, and I have a bunch of A+s to minimize the gap. If all those A+s were As I'd have a substantial gap (>0.05 GPA points). Also, a 3.85/3.81 with a dropped year isn't comparable to a cGPA of 3.87 at McMaster. 

NAQ is 50% but the average person gets 20/50 for the NAQ, and 30/50 is considered a highly competitive NAQ score, that is extremely hard to get, unless you have unreal extracurriculars. I have yet to meet someone who got 40/50 at UBC or higher for their NAQ score, maybe being an Olympian can give you that. People can work for better grades and get a higher GPA easily by taking an easier major, summer courses, or just studying a bit harder. Compared to that, how do you expect to get a better NAQ score for ECs? I will link a person's ECs in this comment so you can see how hard it is to get into UBC or the other schools with good ECs. I do not know how to link their comment so I will just write it here. I'm going to uni in BC so I am not too familiar with Alberta's grading system. I did hear a lot of people with 90s not be able to achieve perfect 4.0s at U of C, while people at my uni in BC did. Also, I have seen the ECs of some of the people admitted to Ontario schools, and most of them would write "just average ECs" or "mainly research" or something like that, and that would never cut it here.  I am not saying it is easier to get into med schools in Ontario, but it is known for a fact that they do put high emphasis on grades while UBC, U of C, and U of A puts high emphasis on ECs. Western basically has a certain CARS score, where they don't let you in if you don't get that, which further proves my point. The interview process at UBC is all MMI, and a lot of the preparation could come from how widely diverse your ECs were and how much you have been exposed to different things in life. Sorry for the rant, I have just heard from a lot of people that Ontario schools are highly grade based, and I know multiple people who moved from BC or Alberta to have a shot at these schools, and of course not being strictly counted as OOP helps too.

After 6 years of applying to UBC Medicine... going through all the possibilities (regrets before interview, to regrets after interview, to regrets after waitlist, to being ineligible for 2 whole years), I seriously cannot believe I'm writing this... It had always seemed like it's something too good to be true, yet here I am.  There are many people I would like to thank (and letting them know will take a solid week) from the bottom of my heart for the support, encouragement, and love they have provided me within this long and incredible journey I have been through.  I write this with shock, excitement, and full of heart.

TIME STAMP:  11:56 AM PST (May 10, 2019)
Result:  ACCEPTED VFMP (1st choice) !!  :D
Early or Regular Deadline:  Regular Deadline
GPA or AGPA (if applicable):  ~84%
MCAT (CPBS / CARS / BBFL / PSBB):  514 – (130 / 125 / 130 / 129)
Current Degree (UG/Bachelors/Masters/PhD):  BSc in 2014
Geography (IP/OOP):  IP

Extracurricular Activities (awards, achievements, volunteering, employment, research, etc.):

I had written this description already in a separate post I made, but will be copying it here as well:  Founded and lead a non-profit organization dedicated to raising funds for variety of causes via annual musical concerts, with the last 2 events focused on contributing to schizophrenia (5 years and counting); founded and led another charity aiding developing nations via Save the Children fund (6 years); extensive leadership and volunteering with UBC Department of Physics and Astronomy (8.5 years and counting); long-term ER volunteer and volunteer trainer and program coordinator (8.5 years and counting); long-term St. John Ambulance volunteer and Divisional Administration Officer (2000+ hours over 5 years, and counting); independently provide guidance and support to immigrants and families as they adjust to life in Vancouver/Canada (9+ years and counting); lots and lots of capacity to work with others including skin cancer research/holding workshops for high school students across Metro Vancouver, volunteering with med students and residents via UBC Department of Emergency Medicine, working closely with refugees and youth with physical and/or intellectual disabilities, and more (combined 3300+ hours); and lots and lots of diversity including clinical research as a volunteer, shadowing pediatric surgeons, toxicology research as a volunteer, epigenomics research at Michael Smith Labs, loads of piano and competitions, oil painting, and more.  I also work 3 jobs right now, 1 full-time and 2 part-time jobs; full-time is being a research assistant at UBCH working on a project focused on treatment-refractory schizophrenia (over 2 years); part-time jobs include tutoring students in grade 4-12 in math and academic reading with a company, and also tutoring for the MCAT with a company.  1 Publication (1st author) on the application (had a poster publication/presentation on June 7th which couldn't be included unfortunately, and a few are expected to come soon).  Lots of awards (mainly from high school) and one high performance activity for winning multiple awards with St. John Ambulance.  The intention of this post is to try and help people down the line, so that's why I'm including lots of details.

Interview:

I finished my interview initially feeling good about my answers.  I had a terrific interview experience!  I felt each interviewer was well engaged in my responses and discussions; they all smiled and nodded as I was answering questions and follow-ups.  But then the 3-month period started and man oh man oh man was I second-guessing myself... I kept doubting my answers and my confidence started to drop a little bit each week that had passed.  I knew at minimum I did 5/10 stations that I would categorize as "good" and at absolute most 8/10 stations.  But overall, especially leading to D-Day, I was completely unsure how I did, but I don't know if I was being too self-critical or not.  At the end of the day, I still overthought everything haha.  Turned out to be okay I guess!

 

I would like to sincerely congratulate everyone who received an offer this year and sincerely congratulate in advance those who will be receiving offers from the waitlist!  It's an overwhelmingly amazing feeling that I get a chance to be in class with you folks – I cannot wait to meet each and every one of you as we finally set to make our dreams become a reality :).

For those who didn't receive the news they were hoping for, I can definitely understand how you feel, believe me... Disappointing news can be demoralizing, but let me tell you that you were selected to interview for a reason; you all have incredible potential so please keep your chin held up high and do not allow, even for a single moment, a decision to define who you are.  As my case can further add to the supporting evidence, persistence is absolutely key.

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On 10/27/2019 at 7:44 AM, YesIcan55 said:

lol no...he's right

average entrance age to UofC is one of the highest in the country at 26+, plus when they released the number of students who had masters/PhD completed before starting medical school a couple of years ago, it was more than 1/3 of the class...and this does not include people who got admission in the middle of a grad program and had to defer or those with multiple undergrad degrees.

 

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On 10/27/2019 at 7:48 AM, YesIcan55 said:

I completely agree with you. Plus, last year the average entrance GPA to UofC was 3.85, and 3.81 for UofA which is not significantly lower than most Ontario schools...people overhype how hard it is to get into Ontario schools while underrating how hard it is to get into Alberta schools....put some respect on Alberta! Do not lump us with USask...we can all agree how much easier it is to get in there than anywhere else in Canada BY FAR.. 

 

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4 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

lol no...he's right

average entrance age to UofC is one of the highest in the country at 26+, plus when they released the number of students who had masters/PhD completed before starting medical school a couple of years ago, it was more than 1/3 of the class...and this does not include people who got admission in the middle of a grad program and had to defer or those with multiple undergrad degrees.

All I'm disagreeing with is this statement:

almost no one gets into U of C unless you are a mature applicant who have years of experience and multiple different extracurriculars

It's very doable to get into U of C directly from undergrad, even from 3rd year undergrad. I don't deny that it's easier with a master's or PhD or 'years of experience'

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1 minute ago, YesIcan55 said:

please define what "very doable" means..

It means exactly what it says...as evident if you look at the Accepted/Interview thread

Potential applicants who read this thread should not get discouraged and think they have no chance or even worse not apply just because other people are telling them they need X, Y, Z to have a realistic chance of getting in

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2 hours ago, tryingtogetthrough said:

Also, I have seen the ECs of some of the people admitted to Ontario schools, and most of them would write "just average ECs" or "mainly research" or something like that, and that would never cut it here.  I am not saying it is easier to get into med schools in Ontario, but it is known for a fact that they do put high emphasis on grades while UBC, U of C, and U of A puts high emphasis on ECs. Western basically has a certain CARS score, where they don't let you in if you don't get that, which further proves my point. The interview process at UBC is all MMI, and a lot of the preparation could come from how widely diverse your ECs were and how much you have been exposed to different things in life. Sorry for the rant, I have just heard from a lot of people that Ontario schools are highly grade based, and I know multiple people who moved from BC or Alberta to have a shot at these schools, and of course not being strictly counted as OOP helps too.

I meant to write AQ, not NAQ, when comparing grades, to make the point that UBC actually cares more about grades than 3/5 Ontario schools. 

Not to be disagreeable or anything, but I have some issues with a few of these statements. 

1. "Average ECs" is highly subjective. I don't consider myself a EC heavy applicant, but someone else might, so where I write "average ECs, some research, leadership, work, volunteering, blah blah blah" that could actually be a strong point. People are neurotic, they compare themselves to that UBC example and think "I've only held 3 club leadership roles, been a student union executive, a student athlete, worked a long-term great job, volunteered with 2-3 organizations long-term, and published once. I'm average". You really can't draw any conclusions from that kind of a statement. Posting one example from UBC doesn't really mean anything because it's an anecdote, n=1, with a 125 CARS score that blocks Alberta, Western, McMaster, and probably Queens. I could find someone attending one of those 3 Western schools with less impressive extracurriculars to make my point that it's not an EC=West, Grades=Ontario dichotomy. The process of EC evaluation is also subjective, so my ECs may click with one file reviewer at the UofC and lead to good scores there, while they may fall flat with someone at UBC or the UofA. I distinctly remember seeing a post in the UofA thread (which shares so little we don't really know how they evaluate) who said they had barely any hours and still got an interview (n=1). 

2. Grades and the MCAT are different aspects. Ontario is variable, but there are a number of schools focused on the MCAT or its subsections (Western, McMaster, Queens). But even then, it doesn't really matter at 2/5 major schools (3/6 if you add in NOSM). On the GPA front, Western actually cares very little about your GPA, you need 2 3.7+ years that meet their rules, that's it. Ontario has a school for every kind of applicant, to use the old cliche; Queens for ECs, Toronto for research/graduate students, Ottawa for GPA, McMaster for CARS/CASPer, Western for the MCAT, NOSM for Indigenous/northern/rural. You can't lump them together as "Ontario schools". 

3. "and of course not being strictly counted as OOP helps too."

This really doesn't matter for Ontario. Moving to Ontario for an undergrad gives you a little edge at McMaster, but with ~5000 applications already, presumably overwhelmingly from Ontario, does it really make that big a difference? Somebody may have more stats on this. For questions like these numbers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>subjective thoughts. 

4. UofC and older applicants. 

The interview/accepted thread is not a representative sample. I would wager the nature of this forum means you're more likely to see multiple-cycle applicants than in the overall applicant pool. I know a bunch of medical students who never looked at forums, applied to their home school (undergrad) and made it in first try. That's an anecdote, and so is the thread, with slightly different populations. 

I feel as if the mean is the least useful measure of central tendency here because of the nature of the application process. Look at the UofC applicant histogram I've attached. 

The youngest person applying is what, 19, and the oldest is 50+. You let in nine 21-yearolds and one 45 yearold and your average is 23.4. Those mature students can easily skew your mean. The admission age distribution has such a long right tail that your mean doesn't need to be near your mode (which is likely in that 21-23 area) so you can both be right since you're comparing the mode to mean. 

 

 

Annotation 2019-10-27 140236.png

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8 hours ago, YesIcan55 said:

if you look at the Acceptance/Interview thread you will find that many many people are out of undergrad because its their 2-3+ time applying...

All it represents is who posts on this forum, not who is in the class. 
 

there’s quite a few younger and straight out of first undergrad students in the class. Those can be mutually exclusive categories, too.

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On 10/27/2019 at 3:05 PM, YesIcan55 said:

if you look at the Acceptance/Interview thread you will find that many many people are out of undergrad because its their 2-3+ time applying...

I’m not denying that but there are lots of people from both categories accepted. If you read the sentence I quoted, it was the extreme hyperbole that I was contesting which some applicants may take too literally.

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On 10/26/2019 at 1:42 PM, tebabeba said:

What year are you applying to? I'm looking to do USask's Phys/Pharm program in fall 2020 as it seems like the best program in the province imo. 

Yep If you are coming to Sask, would definitely recommend this program. The content is pretty much what you will see in your first year med and taught by many of the same professors.

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18 minutes ago, alextrebek said:

Holy heck a lot of commenters here shitting on uSask. Ya, there's a smaller population and therefore less competition. Doesn't make us or the program any lesser-than. We're going to be your colleagues one day- try some professionalism, you might like how it feels. 

Ikr... Like good god I feel like some people are projecting their own anger and furstration about not getting back into into med onto people who get into USask. I hate how people fetishize suffering.  

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18 minutes ago, YesIcan55 said:

I would have not only gotten into medical school but GRADUATED medical school had I been Sask IP from the get-go of my applications. You can't imagine how that feels...it's also not just "slightly easier" or "less competitive" there is no comparison in the stats at Sask IP and anywhere else. This is not the case of being bitter, it's the case of pure injustice. 

I would be a millionaire if I was adopted by Jeff Bezos but here I am, eating ramen with holes in my underwear. 

Also, please remember that us SK IP-ers had to GROW UP IN PLACES LIKE REGINA AND PRINCE ALBERT. Our weekends were spent staring at wheat and wondering if trees only existed in storybooks. If that's not unjust then I don't know what is. 

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1 hour ago, YesIcan55 said:

I would have not only gotten into medical school but GRADUATED medical school had I been Sask IP from the get-go of my applications. You can't imagine how that feels...it's also not just "slightly easier" or "less competitive" there is no comparison in the stats at Sask IP and anywhere else. This is not the case of being bitter, it's the case of pure injustice. 

No I really can't. And I'm really sorry that you have had to do that. However I don't see why people are shitting on me for not wanting to do that. I want to he a doctor and that's that; 9 years from now I want to have my MD and be done with it. I don't want my masters. I don't want my PhD. I don't want to do another UG. I just want my damn MD. That's it.

I agree it's stupidly unfair; why should I have to move half way across the fucking country to have a decent shot at becoming a doctor? That's ridiculous. Unfortunately, the system is what it is. It's not my fault that it's made this way and I'm sick and tired of people calling me "lazy" or that I have "questionable motives" just because I'm not going to kill myself to become a doctor.

Look guys, I know a lot of you are hurting because you've always wanted to have that stethoscope but stop projecting that frustration onto other people. 

As my driving school always said " ALWAYS take the path of least resistance."  I don't see any shame in doing that.

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I have no skin in the USask Med game, but feel like we need to look at the facts. No school in Canada is an auto-admit school, this isn't Law, you could have great stats and still be rejected for a horrible interview. 

As far as Stats, go read the CMES 2018 report, Saskatchewan actually doesn't have the lowest admitted MCAT stats (they didn't report grades); it's the Maritime provinces(all 4 of them for the MCAT) . As far as the % admitted Sask isn't even the highest, it's NB>NWT>NFLD>NS>Yukon>PEI>Sask. 

So really, if you desperately want to find some MS1s/schools to bash (which you shouldn't do), look at the Maritimes... And yes, I know those schools look at ECs, but guess what, their stats are still lower, and acceptance rate higher, than USask. I think the numbers>hearsay/feelings. 

This whole perspective has a ring of "Me, me, me" that misses why schools have IP bias in the first place; for the good of the province, which isn't going to be "Fair" to everyone. Most provinces don't fund medical school seats out of the goodness of their hearts, or to provide some "lucky" individual a lifelong good income and secure career. They fund seats to provide Doctors for their province, from the most desirable cities to the fly-in fly-out communities. If I was a Saskatchewan/Manitoba/NFLD taxpayer and I knew that I was paying $10,000s (if not >$100,000) per medical student (through the course of their education) I wouldn't be happy to learn they were jumping ship as soon as they graduated. This also means if the UofS starts to notice a pattern of people going to Uni in Saskatchewan, then leaving after graduating Sask Med, their policies could change.  

Also, just as a FYI since people may not have this actively on their mind, what you write on the internet is forever and can be tied to you, so be mindful of saying anything that would be objectionable/unprofessional. If you've shared information on how your cycle went, more unusual (higher or lower) MCAT and GPA, etc, all can identify you to someone down the line. 

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3 hours ago, tebabeba said:

No I really can't. And I'm really sorry that you have had to do that. However I don't see why people are shitting on me for not wanting to do that. I want to he a doctor and that's that; 9 years from now I want to have my MD and be done with it. I don't want my masters. I don't want my PhD. I don't want to do another UG. I just want my damn MD. That's it.

I agree it's stupidly unfair; why should I have to move half way across the fucking country to have a decent shot at becoming a doctor? That's ridiculous. Unfortunately, the system is what it is. It's not my fault that it's made this way and I'm sick and tired of people calling me "lazy" or that I have "questionable motives" just because I'm not going to kill myself to become a doctor.

Look guys, I know a lot of you are hurting because you've always wanted to have that stethoscope but stop projecting that frustration onto other people. 

As my driving school always said " ALWAYS take the path of least resistance."  I don't see any shame in doing that.

Uh ... don't take the path of least resistance in taking care of patients please. 

To be fair moving across to a different province to achieve IP status is in the league of "kill myself"... I mean from an outside perspective you are literally going to spend years somewhere you don't want to be for a "higher" chance of medical school admission. 

1 hour ago, MedicineLCS said:

I'm have no skin in the USask Med game, but feel like we need to look at the facts. No school in Canada is an auto-admit school, this isn't Law, you could have great stats and still be rejected for a horrible interview. 

As far as Stats, go read the CMES 2018 report, Saskatchewan actually doesn't have the lowest admitted MCAT stats (they didn't report grades); it's the Maritime provinces(all 4 of them for the MCAT) . As far as the % admitted Sask isn't even the highest, it's NB>NWT>NFLD>NS>Yukon>PEI>Sask. 

So really, if you desperately want to find some MS1s/schools to bash, look at the Maritimes... And yes, I know those schools look at ECs, but guess what, their stats are still lower, and acceptance rate higher, than USask. I think the numbers>hearsay/feelings. 

This whole perspective has a ring of "Me, me, me" that misses why schools have IP bias in the first place; for the good of the province, which isn't going to be "Fair" to everyone. Most provinces don't fund medical school seats out of the goodness of their hearts, or to provide some "lucky" individual a lifelong good income and secure career. They fund seats to provide Doctors for their province, from the most desirable cities to the fly-in fly-out communities. If I was an Saskatchewan/Manitoba/NFLD taxpayer and I knew that I was paying $10,000s (if not >$100,000) per medical student (through the course of their education) I wouldn't be happy to learn they were jumping ship as soon as they graduated. This also means if the UofS starts to notice a pattern of people going to Uni in Saskatchewan, then leaving after graduating Sask Med, their policies could change.  

Also, just as a FYI since people may not have this actively on their mind, what you write on the internet is forever and can be tied to you, so be mindful of saying anything that would be objectionable/unprofessional. If you've shared information on how your cycle went, more unusual (higher or lower) MCAT and GPA, etc, all can identify you to someone down the line. 

I really do appreciate this point and I do feel like it has to be iterated... the schools also have a responsibility to train physicians who are more likely to stay in the province in which they are trained for the benefit of their province's health care. That will inherently have bias incorporated into it. The school's responsibility is to help provide good medical care for their province and use their citizen's taxpayer subsidized dollars to achieve this goal. 

It's the same as NOSM for example having more preference for those with a Northern Ontario connection or those with interest in rural care.    

- G 

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Don’t hate the players...hate the game. 
 

good on those learning the rules of the game early on. I wish I’d had such insight but alas no pm101 when I was in high school. 
 

I am surprised at the commentary/tone of some of the posts in this thread. Please keep in mind what was stated earlier—the internet doesn't forget. And much like it has become an information and research tool for applicants, same for admission committees. 
 

best,

LL
 

 

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