Admission requirements confusion?

[DalHali19]

Hey guys, I am looking for some clarification on something. I have seen on social media that at least 2 current Dal Pharmacy students have gotten admitted to Dal med. I myself and several people I know checked with Dal med admissions over a year ago and they specifically said you do not qualify to apply to DAL med if you are currently in the middle of an undergrad degree, EVEN IF you already have a previous completed undergraduate degree. They added this rule in because if this were allowed, so many people would go into pharmacy as an alternative and drop out as soon as they got into med. I know pharmacy students are also upset with this right now too because a lot were also under the same understanding that they could not apply to med until they are done (again, even if they already had an undergraduate degree completed). So many people take a gap year and don’t start something like Pharmacy BECAUSE of this rule, to keep their eligibility to apply. Myself and a few others have contacted admissions and the Dean to get more info on this, and I hope they are looking into it to clarify this for everyone else.

[multitry]

Honestly, none of us are going to know the answer to that. admissions requirement change all the time and no one really knows the rules unless they work in the dal admissions office. i'd just wait for their response

 

[LittleMonkey101]

So far,  I know, like in Queens, you can do extra undergrad years. Once you are in a grad or professional school(catch point), you need to complete it. 

[DalHali19]

30 minutes ago, LittleMonkey101 said:

So far,  I know, like in Queens, you can do extra undergrad years. Once you are in a grad or professional school(catch point), you need to complete it. 

This was my understanding as well, when I asked initially I was told things like pharmacy, accelerated nursing, the medical tech programs (assuming you already had a prior degree) and any graduate studies needed to be completed before applying.

[Bobby4949]

"Students who are enrolled in undergraduate or graduate studies programs at the time of application and who receive an admissions offer will be required to successfully complete their program of study before beginning the undergraduate medical education curriculum.  If the degree program is not completed, the admissions offer is rescinded.  Thus, it is expected that students will apply during their last year of study. "

"Students who are enrolled in an undergraduate or graduate studies program at the time of application will be required to successfully complete the program before. It is expected that such students will apply during their last year of study since deferrals are rarely granted."

These are the two references to the issue I could find on Dalhousie's website, emphasis mine. Sounds like if you apply in Spring/Summer and start a new program that's not on your application in Autumn/Winter you're not technically breaking the rule. Maybe that's what's going on here?

Just to give my personal take, I think there's only an issue if the students included their incomplete degree on their application. Because then admissions can very clearly say, 'look, we admitted you with the expectation that you would have that degree completed when you start medical school, and you won't.' But if they started their degree and didn't list it on their application, or started the degree after the application was already submitted, then they were admitted on the basis of accurate information. As far as the ethical component, I don't really see dropping out of a graduate program as being a huge deal either. You wouldn't say someone leaving a full time job to come to med school was acting unethically, and really what's the difference?

 

[DalHali19]

56 minutes ago, Colour_A said:

"Students who are enrolled in undergraduate or graduate studies programs at the time of application and who receive an admissions offer will be required to successfully complete their program of study before beginning the undergraduate medical education curriculum.  If the degree program is not completed, the admissions offer is rescinded.  Thus, it is expected that students will apply during their last year of study. "

"Students who are enrolled in an undergraduate or graduate studies program at the time of application will be required to successfully complete the program before. It is expected that such students will apply during their last year of study since deferrals are rarely granted."

These are the two references to the issue I could find on Dalhousie's website, emphasis mine. Sounds like if you apply in Spring/Summer and start a new program that's not on your application in Autumn/Winter you're not technically breaking the rule. Maybe that's what's going on here?

Just to give my personal take, I think there's only an issue if the students included their incomplete degree on their application. Because then admissions can very clearly say, 'look, we admitted you with the expectation that you would have that degree completed when you start medical school, and you won't.' But if they started their degree and didn't list it on their application, or started the degree after the application was already submitted, then they were admitted on the basis of accurate information. As far as the ethical component, I don't really see dropping out of a graduate program as being a huge deal either. You wouldn't say someone leaving a full time job to come to med school was acting unethically, and really what's the difference?

 

I think the main issue here for me and for other students is that a lot of us were under the impression you can’t do something like start pharmacy as a “back up” option while you apply for medical school (all at Dal) - a student who has completed a full year of pharmacy would have known they were admitted into that program before submitting their application, and even if they don’t include it on their application that is considered dishonest and it is cheating the system. I have received email back from the Dean and she was glad to hear some feedback and they are reviewing the matter and will make things more clear - I guess a bunch of other people also inquired about this as well who had the same understanding I did!

[Bobby4949]

Yeah, I definitely see your frustration. Looking back at those quotes again, they do specify that if you're enrolled you'd need to finish the degree. Since they started September 2019 (2018?) they were definitely enrolled before they finished the Dal med application, which is a bit shady.

If I'm being honest though, I think it's pretty unreasonable for med schools to expect students to apply only in their final year or only during a gap year. The odds of getting in are so poor they shouldn't punish students for having a backup plan. It really hurts everyone when really bright individuals are sidelined for years waiting for applications to go through.

[DalHali19]

16 minutes ago, Colour_A said:

Yeah, I definitely see your frustration. Looking back at those quotes again, they do specify that if you're enrolled you'd need to finish the degree. Since they started September 2019 (2018?) they were definitely enrolled before they finished the Dal med application, which is a bit shady.

If I'm being honest though, I think it's pretty unreasonable for med schools to expect students to apply only in their final year or only during a gap year. The odds of getting in are so poor they shouldn't punish students for having a backup plan. It really hurts everyone when really bright individuals are sidelined for years waiting for applications to go through.

THIS though!! That is exactly the frustration here - we should either ALL be allowed to start something and exit for med, so we’re not left waiting around just to apply while doing no schooling, or none of us should be allowed to do this. The rule is vague and I think admissions is telling different people different things.

[Bobby4949]

For clarity, did these students start in 2018? Because 100% I think that's wrong if they didn't disclose that year of education on their applications. Otherwise I'd really lean towards giving them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know about the rule or that they got contradictory information from the admissions office. Clearly they didn't think they were doing anything wrong if they posted their letters on FaceBook haha.

[eye_guy]

I specifically decided not to start a masters program because I did not want to ruin my chances of a med school admission. I ended up being waitlisted that year and could have actually completed the 2 year masters before being admitted to medicine. While working during the gap year was not the worst thing (saved money by not spending on another couple years of tuition), I would've loved to have a masters under my belt. Hopefully these people were not trying to cheat the system and I think you raise a good point about some needed clarification in the rules. 

[med1day]

It’s really clear on the website if you are not going to be finished any program, undergraduate or graduate, that your offer will be rescinded. I never saw this statement last cycle. It may be a new requirement that undergraduate degrees be completed because I have also heard of many people leaving nursing and pharmacy for medical school. Though, I agree you should be allowed to leave, it states this requirement in plain language on the admissions website. When so many people specifically did not go into programs this year so they can apply to med or they simply thought they could not apply, it’s not fair. Also, not disclosing your full academic background just to get into medical school or to keep a medical school offer is unethical. It is also the responsibility of applicants to review admissions requirements every year. This is serious and I hope something is done because people should not be allowed to cheat the requirements. 

[DalHali19]

11 hours ago, med1day said:

It’s really clear on the website if you are not going to be finished any program, undergraduate or graduate, that your offer will be rescinded. I never saw this statement last cycle. It may be a new requirement that undergraduate degrees be completed because I have also heard of many people leaving nursing and pharmacy for medical school. Though, I agree you should be allowed to leave, it states this requirement in plain language on the admissions website. When so many people specifically did not go into programs this year so they can apply to med or they simply thought they could not apply, it’s not fair. Also, not disclosing your full academic background just to get into medical school or to keep a medical school offer is unethical. It is also the responsibility of applicants to review admissions requirements every year. This is serious and I hope something is done because people should not be allowed to cheat the requirements. 

Couldn’t have said it better myself!  I hope something is done about this, or they make their requirements much more clear so that everyone has the same opportunities to start other programs if it is allowed.

[Premed922]

Seeing as there are many students and applicants that have been affected by this, including myself, (students that are on the waitlist who have played by the rules, those who did not start graduate school or backup programs in order to maintain eligibility, etc.), is anyone willing to join together to send a collective email about this to the admissions and the dean? If we all speak on this together collectively as a group, our complaint holds much more power than the individually sent emails. This is an unfair situation, and those on the waitlist who have respected and followed the rules may deserve the seats of those who have played the system and currently hold acceptances. We didn't work this hard over the years to let this happen. Please let me know, either by replying to this or sending me a message, if we can gather a good amount of people then we can actually change this. I already have two people ready, and a few more would make a big difference.  

[mermaidblue]

20 minutes ago, Premed922 said:

Seeing as there are many students and applicants that have been affected by this, including myself, (students that are on the waitlist who have played by the rules, those who did not start graduate school or backup programs in order to maintain eligibility, etc.), is anyone willing to join together to send a collective email about this to the admissions and the dean? If we all speak on this together collectively as a group, our complaint holds much more power than the individually sent emails. This is an unfair situation, and those on the waitlist who have respected and followed the rules may deserve the seats of those who have played the system and currently hold acceptances. We didn't work this hard over the years to let this happen. Please let me know, either by replying to this or sending me a message, if we can gather a good amount of people then we can actually change this. I already have two people ready, and a few more would make a big difference.  

I agree with this; however, I think it would be more suitable if perhaps a Med1 student or any year could perhaps bring this to their attention because it could simply be a misunderstanding on our part. 

[med1day]

This is not a misunderstanding, this is a rule. Some people didn't follow it and some did, which compromises the integrity of the admissions process. This is on the front page of their admissions requirements: Students who are enrolled in undergraduate or graduate studies programs at the time of application and who receive an admissions offer will be required to successfully complete their program of study before beginning the undergraduate medical education curriculum.  If the degree program is not completed, the admissions offer is rescinded.  I don't think that can be any more clear. 

[med1day]

Somebody in another part of the forum said someone from physiotherapy had their admissions offer rescinded, if these individuals "get away with it" so to speak, it is immensely unfair to others who have had their offers rescinded because of the exact same reason. 

[WinterWasp]

Not to disagree with anything that’s been said here, but before anyone gets too worked up, it’s probably important to remember that literally the only parties who know the true details of any individual application are the applicant themselves, and the admissions committee. This particular case sounds unfair, (and maybe it is!), but none of us have all the information to make a call on how “deserving” or not some applicants are.

As someone who used to work in the general university admissions office, I can absolutely guarantee that there is no possible way to hide the fact that you attended Dalhousie Pharmacy....from the Dalhousie Admissions team. They have access to your official transcripts, in addition to your internal Dalhousie account and record, so it’s not just as simple as omitting your Pharmacy grades when you’re asked to submit your grades. Is it possible someone made a mistake? Sure, and that’s where they reserve the right to rescind the offers.

 

By all means, feel free to send an email asking for clarification, but this thread has a lot of anecdotal assumptions, which is just something to be aware of!

 

To be clear - I’m fully on board with respecting the admissions requirements, and that by deliberately misrepresenting your application, you should be disqualified in favour of a more ethical candidate, but again, we are only seeing a small portion of the total picture here.

You don’t need to throw away your pitchforks just yet, but let’s hold off on lighting any torches?

[DalHali19]

6 minutes ago, WinterWasp said:

Not to disagree with anything that’s been said here, but before anyone gets too worked up, it’s probably important to remember that literally the only parties who know the true details of any individual application are the applicant themselves, and the admissions committee. This particular case sounds unfair, (and maybe it is!), but none of us have all the information to make a call on how “deserving” or not some applicants are.

As someone who used to work in the general university admissions office, I can absolutely guarantee that there is no possible way to hide the fact that you attended Dalhousie Pharmacy....from the Dalhousie Admissions team. They have access to your Dalhousie record, official transcripts, and account, so it’s not just as simple as omitting your Pharmacy grades when you’re asked to submit your grades. Is it possible someone made a mistake? Sure, and that’s where they reserve the right to rescind the offers.

 

By all means, feel free to send an email asking for clarification, but this thread has a lot of anecdotal assumptions, which is just something to be aware of!

 

To be clear - I’m fully on board with respecting the admissions requirements, and that by deliberately misrepresenting your application, you should be disqualified in favour of a more ethical candidate, but again, we are only seeing a small portion of the total picture here.

You don’t need to throw away your pitchforks just yet, but let’s hold off on lighting any torches?

I was wondering this as well, how would they miss someone doing pharmacy.... at dal? Lol, seems odd. Regardless, I would like to get to the bottom of it and at least have this issue clarified for the future, because it would change how myself and I’m sure many others move forward! I think everyone deserves to pursue further studies if they have the opportunity to do so and still keep applying! It’s hard to be rejected or put on a waitlist and realize you could have spent the last year pursuing an alternative (just in case, to keep your options open!) yet still have applied...

[Rabeprazole]

22 hours ago, Colour_A said:

"Students who are enrolled in an undergraduate or graduate studies program at the time of application will be required to successfully complete the program before. It is expected that such students will apply during their last year of study since deferrals are rarely granted."

I haven't seen this stated with other schools (the undergrad part ex. pharm). Is this only with Dal?

[med1day]

The thing is if they review your grades before you have any pharmacy or masters grades or whatever it wouldn’t show up on your transcript. And if dal thinks you aren’t in a academic program are they gonna check every person admitted’s transcripts after admission? Or just the people who disclosed they are in a program? 

[Bobby4949]

3 hours ago, WinterWasp said:

Not to disagree with anything that’s been said here, but before anyone gets too worked up, it’s probably important to remember that literally the only parties who know the true details of any individual application are the applicant themselves, and the admissions committee.

Really want to echo this. The admissions committee knows their rules better than anyone, and they've already said they're looking into it. Banding together on incomplete information is really just a recipe for disaster. Imagine there's been a misunderstanding... then all that's been accomplished is further antagonizing students who should still, and rightfully, be celebrating.

[mermaidblue]

43 minutes ago, Colour_A said:

Really want to echo this. The admissions committee knows their rules better than anyone, and they've already said they're looking into it. Banding together on incomplete information is really just a recipe for disaster. Imagine there's been a misunderstanding... then all that's been accomplished is further antagonizing students who should still, and rightfully, be celebrating.

What do you mean "already looking into it"? 

[DalHali19]

41 minutes ago, Colour_A said:

Really want to echo this. The admissions committee knows their rules better than anyone, and they've already said they're looking into it. Banding together on incomplete information is really just a recipe for disaster. Imagine there's been a misunderstanding... then all that's been accomplished is further antagonizing students who should still, and rightfully, be celebrating.

Well, if there’s been a misunderstanding then I and others want to know! Nothing wrong with that. It’s pretty easy to know if someone is IN a program and got into med if they posted about it, and if in fact that is the case, it isn’t fair and admissions needs to address it. Simple as that.

[med1day]

If they’re looking into it at all, it’s serious. All I’ve ever gotten from admissions is a generic reply. 

[med1day]

I don’t think they should be “rightfully celebrating” if they didn’t satisfy all admissions requirements when a lot of applicants are on the waitlist who did. This requirement is written clearly under admissions requirements on their website and it does not say their offers “may be rescinded”, it says “will be rescinded”. It also says undergraduate or graduate program, it does not go into the specificities of which programs you can and cannot leave. Therefore, it calls for everyone in every program to be finished their current program before starting an undergraduate medical degree. Things get missed, remember they have to review hundreds of applications. And yes this is between admissions and individual applicants, but admissions also did write this rule, so they need to be held accountable for what it plainly says.