Admission requirements confusion?

[X Æ A-12 141]

If DalMed messed up, these applicants can drop out of pharmacy school and apply this coming cycle or finish pharmacy school and apply in the year that they finish. If these applicants purposely hid their current student status from DalMed (I.e. on their applications, they indicated they were not currently in school), they should be blacklisted for essentially lying on their application. Either way, since they do not fulfill the entering requirements which imo are extremely clearly stated, they should not start in Fall 2020. 

[med1day 47]

Anyone who feels like this is wrong please send an email to Dr. Rideout. There are doctors involved now who also feel this is wrong, so anyone who is trying to downplay the severity of the situation, remember that. 

[DalHali19 7]

55 minutes ago, Colour_A said:

I really think you guys need to take a step back. These students posted their letters on Facebook, and were enrolled at Dalhousie. They clearly weren't trying to keep their admission a secret from anybody. And how could they? Their colleagues in pharm would clearly know if they dropped out for medicine.

If they unknowingly broke the rules, yes, they should have their offers rescinded. But labeling them unethical and calling for them to be blacklisted is cruel. I feel very sorry for them if this is what happened. Imagine you're in their shoes - you thought you followed all the rules, you got your letter after years of effort ... and all of a sudden your world is turned upside down. Show a little empathy.

The other possibility is that they they got an exception or contradictory information from the admissions office. In which case the anger in this thread needs to be directed at Dalhousie and not these students.

I agree with this. I haven’t made any assumptions that these people got in while knowingly not meeting the admission requirements - this is up to Dal to figure out. This is not about getting people “kicked out”, this is an issue with Dal’s admissions process and they need to address it. They should aim to make it as transparent and equal as possible, in which everyone needs to be judged on the same basis, either everyone or no one enrolled and not graduating from another program at the time of admission should or should not qualify to apply. Gotta keep it consistent! 

[Halidart 3]

"Students who are enrolled in undergraduate or graduate studies programs at the time of application and who receive an admissions offer will be required to successfully complete their program of study before beginning the undergraduate medical education curriculum."

The students who may have been accepted from first year pharmacy would have not even been accepted, let alone enrolled in the pharmacy program at the time of the application due date for med. Clarify with admissions about their policy but don't take it out on the students who may have rightly earned their seat.

[DalHali19 7]

13 minutes ago, Halidart said:

"Students who are enrolled in undergraduate or graduate studies programs at the time of application and who receive an admissions offer will be required to successfully complete their program of study before beginning the undergraduate medical education curriculum."

The students who may have been accepted from first year pharmacy would have not even been accepted, let alone enrolled in the pharmacy program at the time of the application due date for med. Clarify with admissions about their policy but don't take it out on the students who may have rightly earned their seat.

The final application is due in Sept. Yes, they sure would have been accepted/enrolled at the time of application. This is the whole dilemma, otherwise everyone coming out of undergrads applying to med would also apply to other programs, like pharmacy or law etc. in case medicine doesn’t work out for then! I don’t know how much more clear I can make it - this ISNT about the students who may or may not have “rightly” earned their seats, this is about Dalhousie’s admissions process and requirements, they NEED to clarify it for everyone and make sure they’re consistent in what they enforce and tell people!!

[pharmacyiscooler 5]

Im a current pharmacy student and I know both pharm students who got accepted. In pharm there are 95 seats and maybe 50 jobs available for graduates. If people leave for med school that actually benefits us because it gives us better job opportunities. As well,  one of the pharm students that got accepted is my close friend.  If anyone deserves a spot at dal med its her. She is the smartest person I've ever met and works unbelievably hard. She has earned her acceptance just like anyone else. I truly think she will make an amazing doctor. The fact that people are rallying to try to take away her spot is disgusting to me. She has worked so hard over so many years to get accepted. She applied fairly. Think about the fact that these are real people who just achieved their dreams before you try to take it away from them. 

[squeekz07 18]

18 minutes ago, Halidart said:

"Students who are enrolled in undergraduate or graduate studies programs at the time of application and who receive an admissions offer will be required to successfully complete their program of study before beginning the undergraduate medical education curriculum."

The students who may have been accepted from first year pharmacy would have not even been accepted, let alone enrolled in the pharmacy program at the time of the application due date for med. Clarify with admissions about their policy but don't take it out on the students who may have rightly earned their seat.

Application was due September 3rd or so; the same week undergrad classes started. Anybody in 1st year pharmacy would’ve certainly been enrolled in classes & accepted long before then.

[med1day 47]

14 minutes ago, pharmacyiscooler said:

Im a current pharmacy student and I know both pharm students who got accepted. In pharm there are 95 seats and maybe 50 jobs available for graduates. If people leave for med school that actually benefits us because it gives us better job opportunities. As well,  one of the pharm students that got accepted is my close friend.  If anyone deserves a spot at dal med its her. She is the smartest person I've ever met and works unbelievably hard. She has earned her acceptance just like anyone else. I truly think she will make an amazing doctor. The fact that people are rallying to try to take away her spot is disgusting to me. She has worked so hard over so many years to get accepted. She applied fairly. Think about the fact that these are real people who just achieved their dreams before you try to take it away from them. 

If she’s the smartest person you know, she’ll get in again when she applies fairly. Everyone on the waitlist is a real person with real dreams, who has every right to those spots if they satisfied admissions requirements. If your friend has to wait a little longer like everyone else who didn’t get the chance to apply or has to apply again, I don’t see the problem. You don’t think everyone else works unbelievably hard to try to get into medical school? People try 2-6 times. I’m sorry, but your friend is not somehow above the rules. And this is not about benefiting pharmacy student’s job opportunities, this is about dal’s admissions requirements and the blatant inequality this creates among those who are aiming for medical school. 

[DalHali19 7]

15 minutes ago, pharmacyiscooler said:

Im a current pharmacy student and I know both pharm students who got accepted. In pharm there are 95 seats and maybe 50 jobs available for graduates. If people leave for med school that actually benefits us because it gives us better job opportunities. As well,  one of the pharm students that got accepted is my close friend.  If anyone deserves a spot at dal med its her. She is the smartest person I've ever met and works unbelievably hard. She has earned her acceptance just like anyone else. I truly think she will make an amazing doctor. The fact that people are rallying to try to take away her spot is disgusting to me. She has worked so hard over so many years to get accepted. She applied fairly. Think about the fact that these are real people who just achieved their dreams before you try to take it away from them. 

I’m really sorry to hear that! No one is rallying to “take away her spot”?? You clearly haven’t read what this is all about. It still doesn’t change that dal overlooked the rules here or something was missed, and again I’ll say it for the people in the back, they need to address admission requirements and CLARIFY IT! So everyone has the same opportunities. 

[pharmacyiscooler 5]

10 minutes ago, med1day said:

If she’s the smartest person you know, she’ll get in again when she applies fairly. Everyone on the waitlist is a real person with real dreams, who has every right to those spots if they satisfied admissions requirements. If your friend has to wait a little longer like everyone else who didn’t get the chance to apply or has to apply again, I don’t see the problem. You don’t think everyone else works unbelievably hard to try to get into medical school? People try 2-6 times. I’m sorry, but your friend is not somehow above the rules. And this is not about benefiting pharmacy students, this is about dal’s admissions requirements and the blatant inequality this creates among those who are aiming for medical school. 

She did apply fairly and she has tried multiple times to get in. Its not like they just accept people solely because they are in pharmacy, she earned the spot. I fail to see how she is cheating the system here. She did not hide the fact she was in pharmacy school. It is dal meds admissions that is at fault here for not enforcing the rules, not hers. I know of many, many pharm students who have jumped ship to med. It is unfair to just start rescinding offers now because some people on a premed forum are ticked off. I also want to mention that empathy and respect for others are important traits of a health professional. 

[pharmacyiscooler 5]

1 minute ago, DalHali19 said:

I’m really sorry to hear that! No one is rallying to “take away her spot”?? You clearly haven’t read what this is all about. It still doesn’t change that dal overlooked the rules here or something was missed, and again I’ll say it for the people in the back, they need to address admission requirements and CLARIFY IT! So everyone has the same opportunities. 

I have read what this is about. I did see a couple people on here saying to email dal med admissions to get offers rescinded and that really pissed me off. They definitely should clarify the rules but taking away peoples offers is not the way to go about it 

[Halidart 3]

12 minutes ago, squeekz07 said:

Application was due September 3rd or so; the same week undergrad classes started. Anybody in 1st year pharmacy would’ve certainly been enrolled in classes & accepted long before then.

The supplemental essay is due the third. The actual application was the end of July. I do know of someone who was given the greenlight to apply a year or two ago due to the fact that they were not actually in pharmacy at the time they started the application. I'm sorry for those of you who did not get in or are on the waitlist, but I highly doubt these people cheated or lied their way through the application. If this is an issue with admissions and enough people email then I'm sure they will clarify and fix the issue in future. But for those of you calling for seats to be taken away and blacklisting applicants in Canada, that's going a little far. Honestly it just makes you look salty and unable to handle rejection. Keep your chin up, work hard and if you're meant for the program you will get in on your own talent and intelligence, not by disrupting the lives of others.

[DalHali19 7]

2 minutes ago, Halidart said:

The supplemental essay is due the third. The actual application was the end of July. I do know of someone who was given the greenlight to apply a year or two ago due to the fact that they were not actually in pharmacy at the time they started the application. I'm sorry for those of you who did not get in or are on the waitlist, but I highly doubt these people cheated or lied their way through the application. If this is an issue with admissions and enough people email then I'm sure they will clarify and fix the issue in future. But for those of you calling for seats to be taken away and blacklisting applicants in Canada, that's going a little far. Honestly it just makes you look salty and unable to handle rejection. Keep your chin up, work hard and if you're meant for the program you will get in on your own talent and intelligence, not by disrupting the lives of others.

Getting into the specifics isn’t doing any good here, these people might have been accepted into pharmacy before the first part of the application was even due, we just don’t know this and can’t know this! That’s not the point here though. The point isn’t to get them out, it’s 2 spots supposedly! Who cares?! Plus this ISNT just about pharmacy... I know people who would’ve liked to start law school but were told they couldn’t do this and keep applying to med at the same time. Dal needs to make this right, fix the misinformation or miscommunication,  and fix their admissions process so that it is fair for everyone applying

[med1day 47]

Okay for everyone arguing back about how these people deserve their spots because you guys are friends with them or you did this yourself etc. Let me remind you again of the ADMISSIONS REQUIREMENTS on the website:

« Students who are enrolled in undergraduate or graduate studies programs at the time of application and who receive an admissions offer will be required to successfully complete their program of study before beginning the undergraduate medical education curriculum.  If the degree program is not completed, the admissions offer is rescinded.  Thus, it is expected that students will apply during their last year of study » 

Pay attention to the line « the admissions offer is rescinded ».

If Dalhousie medicine does not follow such a clear requirement, the entire integrity of the application process comes into question. 

[Realplayer 5]

For students in the waitlist (or even rejected & accepted), they should all email the Assistant Dean or the office. I am in a neutral position (as I'm not in the waitlist), but the admission of students who violate this clearly stated rule is unfair for just about everyone involved.

This isn't personal, but EVERYONE needs to follow the rules of admissions. If they got accepted to medicine by failing to comply a rule, I'm sorry but it would be revoked. They may be great people but that does NOT pardon them with free admission where EVERYONE plays by the same rules.

 

[DalHali19 7]

6 minutes ago, Realplayer said:

For students in the waitlist (or even rejected & accepted), they should all email the Assistant Dean or the office. I am in a neutral position (as I'm not in the waitlist), but the admission of students who violate this clearly stated rule is unfair for just about everyone involved.

This isn't personal, but EVERYONE needs to follow the rules of admissions. If they got accepted to medicine by failing to comply a rule, I'm sorry but it would be revoked. They may be great people but that does NOT pardon them with free admission where EVERYONE plays by the same rules.

 

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!!

[Pharmstdnt 1]

2 minutes ago, DalHali19 said:

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!!

This is what admission committees are for. I find it very unlikely that the committee just chose to ignore this rule for 2020 given that this happens every year. The two pharm students that were accepted must have been better candidates for the program and that's it. Let the students be excited about their acceptance rather then trying to have it be taken away.  It's not a "free admissions" when they follow the application process just like everyone else. Advocate for better clarification next year. Good luck.

[DalHali19 7]

7 minutes ago, Pharmstdnt said:

This is what admission committees are for. I find it very unlikely that the committee just chose to ignore this rule for 2020 given that this happens every year. The two pharm students that were accepted must have been better candidates for the program and that's it. Let the students be excited about their acceptance rather then trying to have it be taken away.  It's not a "free admissions" when they follow the application process just like everyone else. Advocate for better clarification next year. Good luck.

It wasn’t “followed” though! Would they have made it to an interview if their MCAT was 490? If their GPA were 3.2? It’s different.... but it’s the same. This is clearly stated as an admission requirement, so it’s not about “are they more deserving or qualified” like you’re making it to be. If dal doesn’t follow what’s written as a requirement, everything that’s on their website becomes meaningless.

[med1day 47]

10 minutes ago, Pharmstdnt said:

This is what admission committees are for. I find it very unlikely that the committee just chose to ignore this rule for 2020 given that this happens every year. The two pharm students that were accepted must have been better candidates for the program and that's it. Let the students be excited about their acceptance rather then trying to have it be taken away.  It's not a "free admissions" when they follow the application process just like everyone else. Advocate for better clarification next year. Good luck.

This requirement was added to the website in late 2018, so what happened before is irrelevant. 

[eye_guy 10]

34 minutes ago, Realplayer said:

For students in the waitlist (or even rejected & accepted), they should all email the Assistant Dean or the office.

I don't think this is the way to go.. I would feel very embarrassed to send such an email when I do not know all/enough of the details of the situation. 

I am neutral on this as well though. I can see the frustration people are feeling about this possible lapse in the rules but at the same time, the nasty mindset of throwing these people out and blacklisting them is downright shocking.. 

Not sure what the best solution here would be.

[premed_1 3]

12 minutes ago, Pharmstdnt said:

This is what admission committees are for. I find it very unlikely that the committee just chose to ignore this rule for 2020 given that this happens every year. The two pharm students that were accepted must have been better candidates for the program and that's it. Let the students be excited about their acceptance rather then trying to have it be taken away.  It's not a "free admissions" when they follow the application process just like everyone else. Advocate for better clarification next year. Good luck.

Unfortunately even admission committees make mistakes. They have replied to a few emails and are currently looking into the issue, so we will see results soon. This is very unfortunate to the pharmacy students that got acceptance letters, yes, and even more unfortunate that they were not corrected of their mistakes early on before interviews were given out. 

 

Regardless, none of us are hoping for their acceptances to be rescinded. It would only be fair at this point for the committee to add additional seats for every person they incorrectly allowed to be part of the admission process, or even offer deffer their acceptances to the following year. 

[premed_1 3]

5 minutes ago, eye_guy said:

I don't think this is the way to go.. I would feel very embarrassed to send such an email when I do not know all/enough of the details of the situation. 

I am neutral on this as well though. I can see the frustration people are feeling about this possible lapse in the rules but at the same time, the nasty mindset of throwing these people out and blacklisting them is downright shocking.. 

Not sure what the best solution here would be.

Why would you be embarrassed to send an email asking why the rules apply to some and not others? It is within everyone's right to know. 

Also, Only one person on this thread has brought up the idea of blacklisting. An idea that I, and 95% of others in this thread do not agree with. Please do not use an extreme situation to justify your point. 

[eye_guy 10]

On a lighter note, this scenario would make for a great MMI prompt or Casper question... lol

[PH2Med 5]

While I can certainly see the frustration, I think the best course of action would be to contact admissions about the requirements before making assumptions or getting upset over what may be a misunderstanding. As a current student, we have a few pharmacy students in the class that ended their pharmacy degree early to enter medicine. These individuals had a prior degree that was used for their GPA assessment which fulfills the most senior level 60 ch from one degree program. Although admissions requirements may have changed from when I gained admission, the "rule" has always been that the requirement for undergraduate completion is referring to the completion of an applicants first undergraduate degree (ie. a person cannot apply in their 2nd year of undergrad) and therefore must be completed by July to fulfill the conditional offer. In terms of the Masters/PhD requirement (inc. PT and OT as these are technically masters programs), this is in place because these programs often come with significant research funding/grant attachments that could have a huge impact on the lab/researcher if the student were to leave early and Dal does not have dual programs (MD/PhD).

For the most accurate information, you should always be seeking information from Dalhousie's Academic Calendar which states "Eligibility for admission requires the applicant to have a baccalaureate degree (equivalent to 90-120 credit hours) from an accredited University, which has been completed or is in-progress to be completed by July 1^st 2020, prior to the start of the undergraduate medical program. A Masters or PhD degree is not required. Please note, however, if an applicant is enrolled in a graduate studies program at the time of application, an offer of admission is conditional upon the successful completion of the graduate degree by July 31 of the year of entry to medical school."

I urge you to contact admissions to gain clarity but I can assure you this is likely a misunderstanding based on miscommunication. If it turns out that it is indeed a mistake, things will most certainly be rectified for future applicants, but don't fault those who were recently accepted. I can understand the frustration and believe me I had my own hurdles gaining admission to med school  but looking back I am happy I got in the year I did and not the years prior. It sounds weird I know and its not meant to discredit any of your frustrations but make the years that you received a rejection or waitlist to make yourself stronger (and this doesn't just have to be another degree).

[dankmeme 22]

3 hours ago, pharmacyiscooler said:

She did apply fairly and she has tried multiple times to get in. Its not like they just accept people solely because they are in pharmacy, she earned the spot. I fail to see how she is cheating the system here. She did not hide the fact she was in pharmacy school. It is dal meds admissions that is at fault here for not enforcing the rules, not hers. I know of many, many pharm students who have jumped ship to med. It is unfair to just start rescinding offers now because some people on a premed forum are ticked off. I also want to mention that empathy and respect for others are important traits of a health professional. 

Thank you for saying this. I think a lot of the people who are upset are missing this point. In-progress degrees show up on your transcript, which are available for the entire admission committee to see. And these students are just as deserving as others to get in.

Additionally...this is just my understanding, but I had applied a few times over the years and I remember this still being the rule on the website. Back then when I inquired about it, it was for your FIRST undergrad (i.e. this is why Dal doesn't accept 3rd year undergrads, unlike schools like uOttawa), OR for graduate school. I don't know if this rule includes a second undergrad like pharmacy. Again, it would make sense that it wouldn't include a second undergrad, as GPA calculation would not be possible using 1st or 2nd year pharmacy grades (unless this changed recently). So, the rule is not really being broken at all in that case.

On a last note, guys, please be kind to each other; we're all going to be colleagues eventually. Calling for the removal of students from their acceptance spot is essentially witch-hunting and is not the kind of culture that I think most people in medicine want to see. If you truly feel this was a major error that caused you not to get accepted (despite a year or two of pharmacy likely not adding much to the subjective process of grading admissions), or if this misunderstanding has majorly impacted your career/life, then go ahead and contact them to fix this for next year's cycle. My honest belief is that no foul play is involved and student affairs is well aware of each pharmacy applicants situation and is okay with it.

Edit: Just saw the post above me, which echoes what I wrote. The rule isn't being applied to second undergrads.