U of T vs Mcmaster PT HELP DECIDE PLEASE :)

[AlliPT]

Hey everyone! We are all trying to make our decisions, and I think I've narrowed it down to U of T vs Mac for PT. 

My Toronto pros are as follows: 

- catchment area with many placements and specialty facilities (concussion, arthritis, etc)

- world renowned school/facilities 

- opportunity for research publication in 2nd year 

- combo of didactic and clinical learning 

Toronto cons are that its toronto LOL, not a big city person, and I think that the catchment area could involve a lot of driving, and I only live an hour away, but it's too far to commute due to southbound traffic in the AM. It also may be very hospital based it seems, and toronto is very expensive to live. 

Mcmaster pros are the northern Ontario placement opportunity, cheaper housing, smaller catchment with less driving, smaller class size, chance for publication in year 2, and PBL could be good? I don't know much about it. 

Mcmaster cons are that the catchment area has less specialty facilities such as concussion and rheumatology facilities, and its PBL could be difficult or less effective. 

Any current students or anyone choosing please provide insight!! 

[OntarioPTstudent1996]

For U of T don't worry about it being "hospital based", all TAs for our Intro MSK and second year Advanced MSK are all private practice clinicians and Toronto has loads of private practices for placement opportunities 

[AlliPT]

8 minutes ago, OntarioPTstudent1996 said:

For U of T don't worry about it being "hospital based", all TAs for our Intro MSK and second year Advanced MSK are all private practice clinicians and Toronto has loads of private practices for placement opportunities 

Thanks for the reply! Can you tell me about your u of t experience? Did you have any friends at mac to see how it compares? Do you get a choice in your placements? (Write a list for example?) Anything that is particularly wonderful about the curriculum??

[Soccerstar8]

From what Ive heard, UofT's learning style in more traditional, yet Mac does focus on the PBL. Current Mac OT/PT students I know and grads have spoken very highly of the PBL as they find it prepares them for more abstract learning and collaboration, and apparently it has been proven by research to provide excellent learning outcomes. I dont know if this is indeed true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is, as Mac did invent the MMI. I was originally worried about the PBL and small group learning, but with this term being online I know Mac and Western forsure, and Im sure the other schools also do this, will be utilizing small group sessions via Zoom or whatever platform. Someone pointed out in another forum that Mac may already have a head start to this online learning, as I know that they have placed more focus on online, independent and small group learning more so than other schools way before covid started. 

At the end of the day, we will all graduate with the same degree and enter the profession, so its important to choose a school where you will enjoy being for 2 years and one that aligns with your personal life and values  (advice from many PT grads Ive spoken to recently lol)

[P to the T]

32 minutes ago, OntarioPTstudent1996 said:

For U of T don't worry about it being "hospital based", all TAs for our Intro MSK and second year Advanced MSK are all private practice clinicians and Toronto has loads of private practices for placement opportunities 

This was one of my concerns that I had about U of T, and it is super nice to hear this! 

[AlliPT]

10 hours ago, Soccerstar8 said:

From what Ive heard, UofT's learning style in more traditional, yet Mac does focus on the PBL. Current Mac OT/PT students I know and grads have spoken very highly of the PBL as they find it prepares them for more abstract learning and collaboration, and apparently it has been proven by research to provide excellent learning outcomes. I dont know if this is indeed true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is, as Mac did invent the MMI. I was originally worried about the PBL and small group learning, but with this term being online I know Mac and Western forsure, and Im sure the other schools also do this, will be utilizing small group sessions via Zoom or whatever platform. Someone pointed out in another forum that Mac may already have a head start to this online learning, as I know that they have placed more focus on online, independent and small group learning more so than other schools way before covid started. 

At the end of the day, we will all graduate with the same degree and enter the profession, so its important to choose a school where you will enjoy being for 2 years and one that aligns with your personal life and values  (advice from many PT grads Ive spoken to recently lol)

This is great thank you! I think I will be more sure after the mac Q and A  because they said they've changed things and their website isn't updated ap it's that I dont NOT want to go to mac but I dont know if I DO because I dont have the updated details! 

[cubes868]

Can't speak on Mac's behalf but I can speak very highly of U of T. So they revamped the curriculum for class of 2021 and it was a learning curve. However, I truly love it. We have a mix of lectures and small group learning. In the labs when learning/practicing hands on skills they provide it via a case study in order to stimulate our learning and get us thinking. We have numerous clinicians from the community to come in and be TAs. This serves two great purposes 1) making connections and 2) give "real world" advice. But, what I really love at U of T is the exam testing. We are no longer required to memorize small, pointless facts (like stress-strain curve). We only have one exam per unit and it is a clinical exam. For example, a question could be: "You are seeing Mr. X, he complains of xyz and has xyz. What are your top 3 priorities when treating Mr. X" and you have about 6 options to choose from. The longer answer focuses on a case and preparing a treatment plan for a patient as well as creating short and long term goals for the patient. This type of testing is so much more useful than what other schools currently do. As far as I am aware Western PT still has like 5 courses with 5 different midterms and exams (very similar to undergrad). Additionally, at U of T we now have ACE days. Thus, for each unit we are given one day off to go shadow for 3 hours. The program sets you up at a site and you attend that site every Thursday for 3 hours. It was super beneficial to be able to apply what we were learning at our ACE days. This is also helps the fact that we get clinical exposure early even though our first placement isn't until June. I was in the hospital shadowing my 3rd week being in PT school which is awesome. 

How was U of T's response to COVID? I think it was great. We adapted an online curriculum quickly and we pushed ahead the content that we could learn (we were about to start neuro when schools shut down). We did all of the "theory" for neuro but when we couldn't get back to class they shifted another unit ahead that involved theory (Critical Thinking). We currently just started research as that can be done online. The plan is that once we come back we will do the lab portion of neuro and critical thinking. We have townhall meetings once a week for the program director to update us which has been great. She has said that no matter what, she wants to ensure that we get the same quality education as if we did not have COVID. This is a reason why we haven't switched to online labs. She doesn't want to compromise our learning experience. Thus, she is willing to extend the program and we won't be paying extra tuition. SSM (the program director) is such an amazing person. Everyone in our class loves her. 

Now, I am not sure how this compares to Mac. I understand they do PBL which I heard is quite helpful. U of T is shifting to a PBL model as well. We still have lectures but we have small group sessions throughout the week to discuss a case and during the labs we are required to do the pre-work to review what we are doing. This was extremely frustrating at first because the faculty wouldn't just give us the answers. They would review how to do it after we all had a chance to try it and ask the TAs for help. However, that being said all PT schools in Canada do an amazing job of preparing you. As long as you're willing to put in the effort, you will be fine! Pick the school where you see yourself excelling the most (considering your own learning style, and the city). I picked U of T and I have 0 regrets. Living in Toronto is very expensive but there is always something to do. Such an amazing city to live in at this age and the amount of specialists in the area is amazing. Message me if you have anymore questions. 

[PTOT1209]

4 hours ago, cubes868 said:

Can't speak on Mac's behalf but I can speak very highly of U of T. So they revamped the curriculum for class of 2021 and it was a learning curve. However, I truly love it. We have a mix of lectures and small group learning. In the labs when learning/practicing hands on skills they provide it via a case study in order to stimulate our learning and get us thinking. We have numerous clinicians from the community to come in and be TAs. This serves two great purposes 1) making connections and 2) give "real world" advice. But, what I really love at U of T is the exam testing. We are no longer required to memorize small, pointless facts (like stress-strain curve). We only have one exam per unit and it is a clinical exam. For example, a question could be: "You are seeing Mr. X, he complains of xyz and has xyz. What are your top 3 priorities when treating Mr. X" and you have about 6 options to choose from. The longer answer focuses on a case and preparing a treatment plan for a patient as well as creating short and long term goals for the patient. This type of testing is so much more useful than what other schools currently do. As far as I am aware Western PT still has like 5 courses with 5 different midterms and exams (very similar to undergrad). Additionally, at U of T we now have ACE days. Thus, for each unit we are given one day off to go shadow for 3 hours. The program sets you up at a site and you attend that site every Thursday for 3 hours. It was super beneficial to be able to apply what we were learning at our ACE days. This is also helps the fact that we get clinical exposure early even though our first placement isn't until June. I was in the hospital shadowing my 3rd week being in PT school which is awesome. 

How was U of T's response to COVID? I think it was great. We adapted an online curriculum quickly and we pushed ahead the content that we could learn (we were about to start neuro when schools shut down). We did all of the "theory" for neuro but when we couldn't get back to class they shifted another unit ahead that involved theory (Critical Thinking). We currently just started research as that can be done online. The plan is that once we come back we will do the lab portion of neuro and critical thinking. We have townhall meetings once a week for the program director to update us which has been great. She has said that no matter what, she wants to ensure that we get the same quality education as if we did not have COVID. This is a reason why we haven't switched to online labs. She doesn't want to compromise our learning experience. Thus, she is willing to extend the program and we won't be paying extra tuition. SSM (the program director) is such an amazing person. Everyone in our class loves her. 

Now, I am not sure how this compares to Mac. I understand they do PBL which I heard is quite helpful. U of T is shifting to a PBL model as well. We still have lectures but we have small group sessions throughout the week to discuss a case and during the labs we are required to do the pre-work to review what we are doing. This was extremely frustrating at first because the faculty wouldn't just give us the answers. They would review how to do it after we all had a chance to try it and ask the TAs for help. However, that being said all PT schools in Canada do an amazing job of preparing you. As long as you're willing to put in the effort, you will be fine! Pick the school where you see yourself excelling the most (considering your own learning style, and the city). I picked U of T and I have 0 regrets. Living in Toronto is very expensive but there is always something to do. Such an amazing city to live in at this age and the amount of specialists in the area is amazing. Message me if you have anymore questions. 

Are you a current U of T PT student?

The addition of ACE days that you mentioned sounds like a very beneficial addition to help make connections in the community and prepare yourself for finding a job after graduation (along with increasing your practical experience of course). That's also great to hear that U of T is shifting to PBL as well!

If there is one thing i've learned from these **DELETED** forums it is that U of T students seem to be unbelievably happy with the school and the program itself.

[cubes868]

31 minutes ago, PT1209 said:

Are you a current U of T PT student?

The addition of ACE days that you mentioned sounds like a very beneficial addition to help make connections in the community and prepare yourself for finding a job after graduation (along with increasing your practical experience of course). That's also great to hear that U of T is shifting to PBL as well!

If there is one thing i've learned from these **DELETED** forums it is that U of T students seem to be unbelievably happy with the school and the program itself.

Yes I am!