Leaving a residency position at UBC? - Funding Trade?

[Nomadic_Medik]

I am wondering if anyone out there is leaving, or has, in recent years, left their residency at UBC completely (not for an internal transfer) for either another residency position in another province, or leaving residency in general?

Inter-provincial transfers have funding challenges, as I understand- I have sometimes heard that even if the out-of-province incoming resident transferring is being accepted into a different program than the vacant spot left behind by the out-going resident, PGME can sometimes use the funding that is now available due to the vacant spot for the incoming student.

Again, to be clear, the question is only about if anyone is giving up their residency spot in UBC and therefore their funding, and not about capacity in the program they are actually leaving behind. If so, please PM me. Thank you.

[bearded frog]

If someone leaves residency, their funding is released and available to the program to reassign as they see fit. The departing resident has no say over the disposition (ie. they can't say I'm leaving and you have to give my spot to bob). They also can't independently arrange for a residency "swap" without going through the program/PGME. Say John from UBC and Jane from UofT decide they want to swap their family med spots after the end of first year. Their programs are under no obligation to accept these conditions, but if the PGMEs agree, that's fine. But if Jack in UBC IM has already applied to the UBC PGME to transfer to family, then they may prioritize them over Jane and not accept the "swap". At that point it is John's call to leave or not.

Alternatively, if service obligations are not an issue, the program may just opt to not fill the spot, or open additional R1 spot for next year's match, it's up to them.

[blah1234]

Yea, your funding doesn't come with you if you leave. Transferring along formal protocols is really the only option unless you want to leave medicine entirely.

[rmorelan]

that is interesting - in Ontario if I recall correctly the funding does follow the resident within the province. This lets people transfer programs easier that way at least. 

Inter-province transfers are harder. 

[blah1234]

1 hour ago, rmorelan said:

that is interesting - in Ontario if I recall correctly the funding does follow the resident within the province. This lets people transfer programs easier that way at least. 

Inter-province transfers are harder. 

Yea, I think there's no real protocol for inter-province transfers. I can't remember any cases where the student took the funding with them. The only cases I'm aware of are where there was an agreement between two programs and essentially people swapped places without money moving around.

[ana_safavi]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:38 PM, bearded frog said:

Alternatively, if service obligations are not an issue, the program may just opt to not fill the spot, or open additional R1 spot for next year's match, it's up to them.

IMO, this should not be permitted. It's ripe for corruption. At the very least, a program that keeps losing residents probably shouldn't be getting extra spots...

[bearded frog]

Sorry, yes as OP mentioned: residency funding is provincial, so it follows you as long as you stay within the province, which matters for Alberta, Quebec, and Ontario.

[ana_safavi]

21 hours ago, bearded frog said:

Sorry, yes as OP mentioned: residency funding is provincial, so it follows you as long as you stay within the province, which matters for Alberta, Quebec, and Ontario.

Do you have a source confirming this?

[bearded frog]

21 hours ago, ana_safavi said:

Do you have a source confirming this?

https://cou.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Principles-for-Transfers-in-Ontario-Residency-Programs-October-2017-v2.pdf

End of page 3

[Nomadic_Medik]

Thanks for your thoughts all. I think my question might have been misunderstood somewhat (or maybe just the intent was misunderstood) but what I was looking to know is if anyone in UBC is transferring out so that I could see if it would be worth it to push my PGME to see if funding would be available for a transfer in there (not in the program of choice, just funding in general by anyone leaving any program or who has left recently, sometimes this can be used for a resident requesting transfer to a different program other than the program from which the the funding came, if you knew that the program of choice itself had the physical/teaching capacity and wants to take the resident).

I realize how difficult this kind of request can be and I appreciate individuals posting comments to ensure that important stumbling blocks in this process are highlighted. I suspect that there are many out there who feel similarly to me -- the following is how I feel:

It surprises me that we don't have a pan-Canadian transfer policy that makes inter-provincial transfers more seamless. It would take some collaboration to create such a process by those higher up, but it isn't impossible if the desire were there at the levels where it would need to be and if the appropriate communication were to occur. Just because a system has always been a certain way doesn't mean that this is the best way for it to be. I strongly believe that we need to constantly challenge and re-vamp our policies and processes, rather than saying "well, that's not the process"- as is often said by admin- the question I have when I hear this is "why not-- who does that benefit and does it benefit those that are most affected day to day? And is there room for improvement?"

Anyway, thanks again everyone and sorry for the time it took me to reply again -- it has been a very hectic time.

[I-love-lasix]

Funding stays with the school. It does not follow you within the province. Source: my experience and PGME.

[bearded frog]

12 hours ago, Nomadic_Medik said:

It surprises me that we don't have a pan-Canadian transfer policy that makes inter-provincial transfers more seamless.

There is a policy. https://www.afmc.ca/sites/default/files/pdf/2020-National_Transfer_Guidelines_EN.pdf The issue is that in Canada, health care funding, including for residents, is provincial. So Manitoba decides they need X psych residents this year and budget funding for X residents over 5 years. Alberta funds Y psych residents over 5 years. If an Alberta resident really wants to go to Manitoba, Alberta won't just give them the money, because the funding is paid by Albertans' taxes for a residents service to Albertans. Meanwhile there isn't any money left in the budget for another resident in Manitoba. With the national transfer guidelines, what happens is that Alberta's PGME contacts all the programs the resident would be interested in transferring to, and maybe one of the Manitoba residents leaves residency for whatever reason and now there's funding available, they will look at all the residents who have gone through the guidelines and are interested in their program, and accept one of the list. Then maybe now Alberta has a spot for someone else now, etc.

 

12 hours ago, Nomadic_Medik said:

I think my question might have been misunderstood somewhat (or maybe just the intent was misunderstood) but what I was looking to know is if anyone in UBC is transferring out so that I could see if it would be worth it to push my PGME to see if funding would be available for a transfer in there (not in the program of choice, just funding in general by anyone leaving any program or who has left recently, sometimes this can be used for a resident requesting transfer to a different program other than the program from which the the funding came, if you knew that the program of choice itself had the physical/teaching capacity and wants to take the resident).

Provincial resident funding is specific to the resident, but there are also desired program quotas. If an anesthesiology resident leaves and a spot/funding opens up, they're not usually going to use that funding to take on another surgery resident, their going to try and fill the gas spot so that call coverage can be maintained, etc.