Everything online ? (Rant)

[dooogs]

Anybody else feel super lied to by the school? They emailed saying we should stay on campus and now they told us everything is online ? ... I feel so .. weid .. 

 

EDIT: can we think of some positives? 

[James Nystead]

54 minutes ago, dooogs said:

Anybody else feel super lied to by the school? They emailed saying we should stay on campus and now they told us everything is online ? ... I feel so .. weid .. 

Cant wait to spend $4000+ in rent from my LOC at Prime - 0.25% for an empty apartment while I learn from my mothers basement 

[TheStern]

I think it's completely unacceptable. Virtual learning in a pandemic is perfectly understandable, but why on earth would they tell us to live in the city we are learning in? If every single aspect of learning will be virtual? There goes 10k for the year for literally no reason, thanks Western..

[dooogs]

7 minutes ago, James Nystead said:

Cant wait to spend $4000+ in rent from my LOC at Prime - 0.25% for an empty apartment while I learn from my mothers basement 

Only 4000 for the entire year??? Or just one semester? Cuz I'm looking at 12k+ for the year 

[James Nystead]

18 minutes ago, dooogs said:

Only 4000 for the entire year??? Or just one semester? Cuz I'm looking at 12k+ for the year 

1000 per month for Sept to Dec

[James Nystead]

19 minutes ago, TheStern said:

I think it's completely unacceptable. Virtual learning in a pandemic is perfectly understandable, but why on earth would they tell us to live in the city we are learning in? If every single aspect of learning will be virtual? There goes 10k for the year for literally no reason, thanks Western..

Nothing changed between now vs a few months ago. If anything, things are better! What are other schools doing for their MS1s? If Mac was able to tell matriculants at the outset idk why Western dragged their feet until <2 weeks until O week

[dooogs]

That's the annoying part. If they had never said hey we HIGHLY recommend you to be on campus i wouldnt have a problem with this decision. I dont even care it's online, I'm disappointed they made us sign leases for no reason 

[rmorelan]

so for those not in the loop - every aspect of the education in online? Did they give you a timeline for how long this will last now for sure? 

 

[dooogs]

19 minutes ago, rmorelan said:

so for those not in the loop - every aspect of the education in online? Did they give you a timeline for how long this will last now for sure? 

 

I can provide a more detailed breakdown later but TLDR - yes everything virtual for at least first semester.  Most likely also second Apparently possibility of doing observerships although I'm shocked this is some sort of selling point for first year first semester med school 

[rmorelan]

8 minutes ago, dooogs said:

I can provide a more detailed breakdown later but TLDR - yes everything virtual for at least first semester.  Most likely also second Apparently possibility of doing observerships although I'm shocked this is some sort of selling point for first year first semester med school 

thanks - 1) that sucks 2) I await the breakdown

of course covid messes up a lot - a lot of us, myself included, have had to deal with a lot of negative consequences in our training but that realllyyyy is annoying. The entire first year bonding thing is huge - particularly at western - and this will seriously impact it. Just thinking about it makes me cringe. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by rmorelan

[hbmed]

9 hours ago, rmorelan said:

thanks - 1) that sucks 2) I await the breakdown

of course covid messes up a lot - a lot of us, myself included, have had to deal with a lot of negative consequences in our training but that realllyyyy is annoying. The entire first year bonding thing is huge - particularly at western - and this will seriously impact it. Just thinking about it makes me cringe. 

"The Year 1 and 2 Semester 1 courses will be delivered in the following format:

• Large Group Sessions: These will all be virtual. There will be no in person lectures on campus for the first semester; and potentially not for the entire 2020-21 academic year. Large group sessions will be delivered virtually through either Zoom or the Blackboard Collaborate platform. Learning sessions will focus on consolidation and review of key course content.
• Small Group Learning: All Integrative Small Group Learning (ISGL) and Discipline Specific Small Group (DSSG) sessions will be delivered virtually, facilitated by Schulich faculty using Zoom or Blackboard Collaborate. This will allow flexibility of group scheduling.
• Digital Asynchronous Modules: Faculty are currently developing video lectures and multimedia modules that will be available to students on demand. In each course these modules will help students learn content information aligned with key concepts in the curriculum.
• Anatomy Labs: Anatomy will be taught virtually for all Year 1 Semester 1 learning using a variety of teaching processes. Access to the Anatomy Lab will be restricted to the scheduled sessions only [any in person for anatomy and clinical skills appears to be restricted to Principles II, ie the second years].
• Clinical Skills: The Curriculum Committee has approved integrating essential Clinical Skills learning (formerly PCCM) into Foundations, Principles of Medicine I and II and Transition to Clerkship to better align with course teaching. Clinical Skills will begin to address the AFMC Entrustable Professional Activities (EPAs) 1,2, 3 5,6.
- Introduction to Interviewing and Advanced Interviewing in Foundations will be delivered virtually. Group sizes will be campus specific. This may change depending on the COVID-19 pandemic and public health guidelines.
-The Program is planning for Observed Structured Clinical Examination (OSCE) assessments in the academic year – more information will follow as we learn from the Medical Council of Canada fall examinations.

Assessments: The overall goal of assessment is to both help you learn as well as determine that you are competent enough to progress in the program and reach Program graduating competencies. All assessments require your attention and completion as they are also learning activities. Some are formative (e.g. quizzes, specific assignments), meaning that their goal is to enrich your understanding of the materials while others are summative (e.g. end-of-course exams), meaning they require you to demonstrate a certain level of performance.
- Formative assessments that are quizzes or tests (e.g. multiple choice questions) will be delivered via an online format through Elentra.
- We are determining the best ways of delivering the larger formative tests (e.g. progress tests) and summative end-of-course examinations. We are exploring options for allowing large number of students in one or more rooms for a single test/exam, as well as other online and remote delivery options. At this point in time, it is likely that progress tests and summative end-of-course examinations will be delivered virtually and not in person. More information will be made available as soon as possible.
- Your overall progression in the program will be determined by a holistic review of your attendance, professionalism, participation in program activities, and completion and performance on all assessments.

Experiential Learning
This course will continue with a:
1. Research Project that begins in Year 1 with student teams identifying a prospective project and faculty supervisor, submitting a brief project plan and completion of the project by fourth year.
2. Quality Improvement project for Year 2 with student teams assigned a faculty advisor. An online QI curriculum supporting QI projects will be delivered in September and November.
3. Service Learning is on hold for Semester 1 (as in other Ontario medical schools)
4. Decisions on the Year 1 mandatory Longitudinal Clinical Experience will be made over the fall term as we better understand opportunities.
Professionalism, Career and Wellness
New sessions using Zoom for small group and interactive large group sessions have been developed. All sessions will be virtual.

Optional Clinical Learning Opportunities (OCLOs)
We continue to support early clinical learning experiences. The School and all Clinical Departments are supportive of students in Year 1, 2 undertaking clinical learning that allows for deeper understanding of course topics and exploring career goals.

There will be a new process to follow to meet the requirements for clinical care in the COVID-19 environment. A revision of the OCLO guideline will be available after the August meeting of the Curriculum Committee.

There have been many questions asked about virtual patient assessments. Clinicians are delivering care for many patients using virtual visits by telephone and video. Students are expected to be within the same location as the supervising faculty. Please review the new Program guideline:" [this is filled with confusing words for incomers, but I'm under the impression that basically we'd only be able to do OCLOs that have virtual patient care, and we would be in the same facility as the supervising physician when that care is given.... so not sure what this means for things like EM or any surgical OCLOs... hopefully this will be clarified as they sort logistics out more]
 

We're definitely all a bit uneasy about how this was at least revealed, especially after being told that they strongly suggested we live near campus and that there would be some decent amount in person. I think in true Schulich fashion we'll find a way to still foster some good relationships through these shared, shall we say...unpleasant? circumstances. Hopefully they provide more in person things in January, so crossing fingers for that. They did also say that "it is possible that revisions may occur as the COVID-19 pandemic situation continues to develop", but I feel like things are pretty set as outlined above until the end of 2020 (if it ever ends?)

EDIT: also expecting some amazing admissions videos to come out of all this and so many memes when we finally make it through to welcome next year's class

[helpinghand]

are you guys thinking of subletting your leases? im so unsure of what to do bc i have an opportunity to cancel my lease, but i really want to still be able to bond with the class. i can drive up whenever though so idk if thats gonna be an issue. 

[dooogs]

I just don't know what to do. I feel dumb paying rent for nothing but then I'm like what if I need it for something.... I just dont know why they insisted we stay on campus ? Am I missing something ?

[helpinghand]

I’d be fine to drive up for observerships and even stay the night at a hotel if needed but I’m more concerned about missing out on the social aspect if I’m not there all the time. I’ve heard the experience is all about the people u meet so that part is concerning to me and super sad! regarding the school telling us to move, I feel like they probably didn’t know 100% what was gonna happen and were likely planning for more in person content but couldn’t get that approved maybe 

[CHG]

43 minutes ago, helpinghand said:

regarding the school telling us to move, I feel like they probably didn’t know 100% what was gonna happen and were likely planning for more in person content but couldn’t get that approved maybe 

What's really odd is I talked to admin yesterday and today about this and they're sticking with the 'strongly suggest you move to your campus city' thing they sent out in the first memo! Apparently there's still an expectation that you guys will be able to attend on campus stuff at relatively short notice should things change...which I don't see happening tbh but who knows. In all honesty, there are still lots of things that will be going on that it'd be worth it to be in the city for ... observerships are definitely a go, and I think it's a selling point bc in the new curriculum Western is really trying to hype up their focus on getting us clinical experience. Doctors tend to have very little expectations of first years doing observerships (in my experience) so it's actually a great time to do them bc theres no pressure. There's also research you can do in person and they're working on getting the longitudinal clinical experience set up if they can figure out a good way to run it! Then theres all the student led groups and clubs that will definitely still be having activities (we're missing our classmates a lot lol). 

All that being said I 100% understand the frustration and I think what Western did here was totally thoughtless. Trust me when I say we're all very frustrated at the situation as well....

[CHG]

2 hours ago, hbmed said:

There will be a new process to follow to meet the requirements for clinical care in the COVID-19 environment. A revision of the OCLO guideline will be available after the August meeting of the Curriculum Committee.

There have been many questions asked about virtual patient assessments. Clinicians are delivering care for many patients using virtual visits by telephone and video. Students are expected to be within the same location as the supervising faculty. Please review the new Program guideline:" [this is filled with confusing words for incomers, but I'm under the impression that basically we'd only be able to do OCLOs that have virtual patient care, and we would be in the same facility as the supervising physician when that care is given.... so not sure what this means for things like EM or any surgical OCLOs... hopefully this will be clarified as they sort logistics out more]
 

Just want to clarify bc I think it might make some ppl happy to hear - in person OCLOs will be allowed! You'll be good to go for things like EM and surgery. What this part means is basically that Schulich isn't allowing you to participate in virtual clinic from your home for privacy reason. They don't want you 'seeing' patients from your bedroom when theres a possibility your roommate is standing by the door listening in kinda thing. If you are participating in virtual care, you'll have to do it from the same facility as the supervising physician. There will be some COVID training so things will be delayed but you CAN go to the hospital! 

[Aegean]

48 minutes ago, helpinghand said:

I’d be fine to drive up for observerships and even stay the night at a hotel if needed but I’m more concerned about missing out on the social aspect if I’m not there all the time. I’ve heard the experience is all about the people u meet so that part is concerning to me and super sad! regarding the school telling us to move, I feel like they probably didn’t know 100% what was gonna happen and were likely planning for more in person content but couldn’t get that approved maybe 

i wonder how substantial the social aspect is gonna be if everything is virtual. how many people are gonna bother moving near campus to socialise with?

[helpinghand]

3 minutes ago, Aegean said:

i wonder how substantial the social aspect is gonna be if everything is virtual. how many people are gonna bother moving near campus to socialise with?

Right, I thought this too! It does seem like most ppl are moving though from what I’ve heard so I guess it’s up to us to make that social experience happen .. I really hope it’s not completely compromised bc of this  

[Aegean]

4 minutes ago, helpinghand said:

Right, I thought this too! It does seem like most ppl are moving though from what I’ve heard so I guess it’s up to us to make that social experience happen .. I really hope it’s not completely compromised bc of this  

I find that a bit ironic. So it will be "safe" for us to gather together to socialise, but not "safe" to attend classes in small groups. oh well lol

[dooogs]

12 minutes ago, Aegean said:

I find that a bit ironic. So it will be "safe" for us to gather together to socialise, but not "safe" to attend classes in small groups. oh well lol

Yeah. Find that weird too. What's the difference  ? My guess is the school doesn't want to be liable ? Idk but it is what it is I guess 

I hope the gym will be open get fit af this year LOL

[rmorelan]

1 hour ago, helpinghand said:

are you guys thinking of subletting your leases? im so unsure of what to do bc i have an opportunity to cancel my lease, but i really want to still be able to bond with the class. i can drive up whenever though so idk if thats gonna be an issue. 

I mean subsletting is an option but the trouble is with the entire campus now basically empty there are going to be a lot of free spots. 

[rmorelan]

4 hours ago, Aegean said:

I find that a bit ironic. So it will be "safe" for us to gather together to socialise, but not "safe" to attend classes in small groups. oh well lol

Ha, the school takes on no risk if people decide outside of official school functions to socialize. Also that would be very likely less than 10 people the way things are set up right now. 

What I find a bit odd is the loss of the small group session mostly.  

Edited August 13, 2020 by rmorelan

[James Nystead]

6 hours ago, dooogs said:

Yeah. Find that weird too. What's the difference  ? My guess is the school doesn't want to be liable ? Idk but it is what it is I guess 

Yep, the school isnt liable if you get COVID from hanging with classmates but they are liable if you get it at school 

[Iamokayyyyyy]

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[dooogs]

On 8/19/2020 at 2:50 PM, Iamokayyyyyy said:

i'm in the same boat. my partner quit their job that they loved to move here with me (starting work in london) and we just found this out. the cost of rent vs our old place is way higher. wish we knew this earlier. 

It's just sad to start with this bitter taste. Looking for positives though... please someone .... I'll start: London has great gyms!