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You can put peds subspecialities under 5 years + 1 year for the most part, although for all your medicine/peds subspecialities at 6 years I would put a star that it depends on where you train, and if you train in a large centre and want to stay there you might get a job without further fellowship. Also Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal are a tier harder than Calgary/Edmonton/Ottawa

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13 minutes ago, offmychestplease said:

right. Critical Care through IM is 5 years (3 years IM + 2 years critical care), through EM it is 6 years (since 1 year of EM 5-year can be used to start the 2 year fellowship) and through General Surgery and Anesthesia it is 7 years (5 years + 2 years critical care)...however, no matter the path to critical care it is very hard to find a job anywhere right now

You can also do critical care in 6 years in anesthesia as well.

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13 hours ago, offmychestplease said:

similar to resident salary 

yup, although it is variable and depends on where you are going and what you are doing. 

Many fellowships are not unionized and so there are no fixed rules. Also confusion is we use the term fellowship for some normal training in some fields (like IM but also as an example neuro radiology - any thing that actually has a college exam after it - those do follow unionized pay increases). For truly post residency training the salaries can be follow the provincial salary rules for PGY6 but I have seen it lower as well in quite a number of fields (it is one year, and supposed to get you a job so people still go for them). May seem unfair but residency is paid by the government while fellowships are usually funded by the actual practice group (it is different when it is your money). Also some set up moonlighting opportunities so a lower salary may mask in reality a better income than it appears. 

In the US where many people go for some fields the salaries are quite variable as well, as you often have to compensate people for the cost of the city people are in. For instance Harvard based ones were 20K higher than some other places I looked at but Boston is the 3rd or 4th most expensive city in the US. If you didn't bump it up no one would come. 

 

Edited by rmorelan
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For PM&R, I would add that fellowships aren't necessary for jobs themselves. It's simply that it's hard to find a job outside of an academic center because of how small and specialized the specialty is so you end up needing one to fulfill the requirements for an academic job (ie: 1 year of training post-residency).

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On 10/10/2020 at 2:00 PM, offmychestplease said:

7 years - Nephrology (3 years of IM + 2 years of Nephro + 2 years of fellowship),

 

 

I don't know of any nephrologist/nephro trainee that would subject themselves to 2 separate fellowships (I believe they are all 1 year), to still end up jobless. People generally either locum in GIM or do endless CA'ing after 1 year of fellowship, but I'm sure there are those out there that think another year of extra training will help (it wont, when there are no dialysis spots open).

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44 minutes ago, offmychestplease said:

thanks. I put it at 7 because I heard it was very very hard to get a dialysis spot. Do you know why it's so hard to get one (do they make $1 million+?)

Probably same reason as surgeons, hospital resource, current nephros don’t let  new ones in as yeah they make tons of $$$, etc. 

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11 hours ago, IMislove said:

Probably same reason as surgeons, hospital resource, current nephros don’t let  new ones in as yeah they make tons of $$$, etc. 

and they don't need them - I mean you will see a common theme in many specialities that people want to work "full time" regardless of the pay - where way in other fields people may be thinking I am earn great money I can reduce my work and still have a great lifestyle etc. It is as if the sort of person that can complete the training and jump through the hoops simply likes to be busy. I think that is one of the reasons you don't see a lot of part time anything in medicine. 

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Your info about psych is not accurate with respect to no need for “fellowships” for the cities listed. 

if you wish to practise Geri or forensic or child psych you’ll need the subspecialty in at least Toronto and Vancouver.

like the education creep spoken of, it is happening in psychiatry as well. Please recognize that subspecialty training is not equivalent to fellowships. In other words, please recognize the fact that I had to pay several more thousands of dollars for another RC exam ;-)

The above info will be out of date even within a year....the world is a quickly changing place. 
 

best,

LL

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