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[offmychestplease]

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[LostLamb]

16 minutes ago, offmychestplease said:

I meant one could get a job practising general psyc in any city in Canada without any additional fellowships

Possibly not in the two cities identified, depends also on what you mean about general psych. 

I understand your attempts to distill the information to its essences for medical students, but please trust those in practise who are trying to help. 

[ChemPetE]

Rad onc - I only know one person who for very specific circumstances needed 2 years of fellowship in my grad class. Some went straight to work without fellowship as well. I would slot it in the 6 years at this point.

[ACHQ]

On 10/12/2020 at 9:50 PM, offmychestplease said:

thanks. I put it at 7 because I heard it was very very hard to get a dialysis spot. Do you know why it's so hard to get one (do they make $1 million+?)

Already been stated by IMisLove. Getting dilaysis spots has nothing to do with training. A general nephrologist who has trained for 5 years TRAINED TO DO DIALYSIS. they don't need a fellowship in it to get a spot. The spots are not available because of hospital resources and the fact that most nephrologists are still pretty young (40-50 range) and *won't be retiring* for at least 15-20 years.

[offmychestplease]

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[Findanus]

Anatomical pathology requires a fellowship to work in major centers. The total training length is 6 years, not 5.

[1D7]

On 10/12/2020 at 4:18 PM, offmychestplease said:

I said to find work in the 6 biggest cities in Canada and made note that training time could be less if you want to work in the middle of nowhere...likely a fellowship is not needed. Which fields are inaccurate? 

Can't really lump all those cities together IMO. The situation is also less clear cut as some people can find jobs but not in things they want to do or are underemployed.

[rmorelan]

general pattern here - it is getting to the point where it is easier to ask "what doesn't need a fellowship...." when dealing with any of the 5 or 5+ year specialties. 

[offmychestplease]

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[rmorelan]

1 hour ago, offmychestplease said:

so what happens if you go into nephro and can't get a job? do you work in GIM?

Others will know this better than myself for sure but from my original clerkship instructor -  there are jobs involving nephro that don't do dialysis - that just happens to be the part of the field that makes the most money. Under employment, and less desirable locations/shifts/work etc. are all possible. 

Med students often have the staff position as some sort of earmarked end point - which makes sense and I though the same way - but you quickly see there are a ton of things in terms of various jobs that take networking, "earning a spot" and flat out luck at that level as well. Some times it takes people a while to find their end niche - be it for personal, professional or financial reasons. 

[rmorelan]

8 minutes ago, offmychestplease said:

well put...so is it safe to say the only fields in medicine that do NOT require a fellowship or additional degrees in the biggest cities in Canada are : FM (2 years), Derm (5 years), GIM (4 years), General Peds (4 years)?

FM for sure, and GIM is if you match for it 5 years (you can do it in 4 vs 5, although again the other IM people will have to comment - I can easily see some places preferring the 5 year route just because it is longer and that is just the theme here. Doesn't mean you cannot open shop with 4 but you are mentioning some cities that are arguably competitive). 

Not sure about peds(?)

although I should mention ha that FM being 2 years and still being the most popular specialty can be lost in all of this - there remains a lot of routes here and a wide range of times to do them. Also again from a financial point of view - the all these extra years do add a big opportunity cost to things 

Edited October 16, 2020 by rmorelan

[ellorie]

Psych is 5 years and it's not hard to get some sort of academic job in Toronto with just the 5 years.  I'm pretty sure everyone in my cohort who wanted an academic job got one, though not everybody got exactly the hospital/area they wanted.  Even the community hospitals were popular and competitive.  CAMH hired very broadly (due to expansion of various programs), but the other central hospitals I think were also competitive.  I got hired generally in my areas of interest but had to be a bit flexible about specific clinics and distribution of days.

If you want to do one of the RC subspecialties (child, geri, forensics) it's 6 with the fellowship.

There are a few non-RC fellowships in psych that are becoming more common - particularly CL - but you can still get a CL job without a CL fellowship I think (I have no interest in CL so never really looked into it).

[bearded frog]

On 10/16/2020 at 12:19 PM, rmorelan said:

Not sure about peds(?)

It's accurate for outpatient gen peds or working in non-tertiary care centers. If you want to do gen peds at Sick Kids or BC children's etc. they're starting to look for something that sets you apart, but not necessarily a full fellowship in hospital pediatrics, which is starting to become more of a thing.

[rmorelan]

4 hours ago, bearded frog said:

It's accurate for outpatient gen peds or working in non-tertiary care centers. If you want to do gen peds at Sick Kids or BC children's etc. they're starting to look for something that sets you apart, but not necessarily a full fellowship in hospital pediatrics, which is starting to become more of a thing.

thanks!

[blah1234]

A large problem with this type of compilation is that it gives a current snapshot of a job market that is really only usable by medical students early in their training. That means these substantial number of students will be facing a job market that could be a decade out. So much can change in a decade. While I am generally a believer that things will slowly get more competitive for all specialties over time I do think that technology and funding changes could dynamically change the spots and needs for fields over that time frame.

If anything I feel like the only useful categorization is using three general classes. Short (e.g. FM), Long (most FRCPC), and Extra Long (e.g. neurosurgery). Anything more detailed is really going to depend on the unique situation of every trainee. In some fields the number of trainees across Canada is so small that individual ability, networking, reputation can start to play a disproportionate role compared to any sort of descriptive statistics of the overall group.

Just my two cents.