Number of admitted MDCM students in Fall 2020?

[TheHopefulMD]

Hey guys! I was wondering if someone could clear this up for me please, I'm a bit confused by these numbers.

Link 1) https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/prospective/our-statistics shows that for Fall 2020, there were 1035 QC university applicants out of which, 120 were admitted. It also showed that there were 870 QC Med P applicants out of which, 67 were admitted.

However, link 2) https://www.mcgill.ca/medadmissions/prospective/our-statistics/class-profiles shows that for Fall 2020, there were an unknown # of QC university applicants out of which, 202 (in total) and 189 (only Quebec residents) were admitted. It also showed that there were 870 QC Med P applicants out of which, 67 were admitted. 

Can someone please explain how this is possible, I'm wondering if this is a mistake or I am simply not understanding the math correctly. Thank you so much in advance guys!

[Médicomage]

I see 2 ways to interpret it.

1. The second number shows the number of people who got an offer and the first number shows the number of people who actually registered.

2. The first number has not been updated after the increase of spots granted by the government of Quebec last minute last year in their 3-year plan for medical education.
 

anyway, i would trust more the second number, since it seems more coherent with the stats from the previous years + the increase of spots.

[BananaBoy]

I think the second number includes the people admitted to the MDCM program from the Med-P program whereas the first number is only people from the QC university pathway

[veromedico]

On 12/29/2020 at 10:46 AM, Médicomage said:

e of spots granted by the government of Quebec last minute last year in their 3-year plan for medical education.

Thanks for the clarification, do you know exactly by what number it will be increased this year?

[Médicomage]

5 hours ago, veromedico said:

Thanks for the clarification, do you know exactly by what number it will be increased this year?

All is here: https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communique-2120/

[veromedico]

4 minutes ago, Médicomage said:

.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communique-2120/

Awesome, thank you so much, I wonder how many seats would be available for each medical schools in Quebec!!

[Médicomage]

1 minute ago, veromedico said:

Awesome, thank you so much, I wonder how many seats would be available for each medical schools in Quebec!!

Well... since Outaouais is one of the regions with the most problem to get doctors, and Outaouais belongs to McGill, I'm pretty sure McGill will get a few of those extra seats for this year, especially now that they have a campus in Gatineau. Buuut it's just a guess.

[TheHopefulMD]

On 1/2/2021 at 8:03 PM, Médicomage said:

Well... since Outaouais is one of the regions with the most problem to get doctors, and Outaouais belongs to McGill, I'm pretty sure McGill will get a few of those extra seats for this year, especially now that they have a campus in Gatineau. Buuut it's just a guess.

Wait this might be a super dumb question but let's just say they increase their admitted class size from 100 to 150 students this year, would it remain 150 students or more for the next couple of years cuz I honestly don't know when or if I'm even going to get in lol. 

[helpmeplz]

32 minutes ago, TheHopefulMD said:

Wait this might be a super dumb question but let's just say they increase their admitted class size from 100 to 150 students this year, would it remain 150 students or more for the next couple of years cuz I honestly don't know when or if I'm even going to get in lol. 

Spot increases are most likely going to be permanent in my opinion, unless the government decides to revert everything (could happen next year tho, people are really unhappy with the current Quebec government right now and might vote liberal next year (and Quebec liberals are known to not like making med school more accessible)).

[Médicomage]

They review the number of spots every 3 years. We are in the second year of those 3 years. It’s called “Politique triennale des nouvelles inscriptions dans les programmes de formation doctorale en médecine et du recrutement de médecins sous permis restrictif”

this one was the one for 2016-2019 : http://www.education.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmin/site_web/documents/daai/18-95_Diffusion.pdf

 

And here are the numbers for 2019-2022 : https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/05/22/pres-de-140-etudiants-de-plus-en-medecine

[MaudeB]

57 minutes ago, Médicomage said:

They review the number of spots every 3 years. We are in the second year of those 3 years. It’s called “Politique triennale des nouvelles inscriptions dans les programmes de formation doctorale en médecine et du recrutement de médecins sous permis restrictif”

this one was the one for 2016-2019 : http://www.education.gouv.qc.ca/fileadmin/site_web/documents/daai/18-95_Diffusion.pdf

 

And here are the numbers for 2019-2022 : https://www.journaldequebec.com/2020/05/22/pres-de-140-etudiants-de-plus-en-medecine

If there are 140 more students admitted, I hope there will be an adjustment in the residency spots also. Carms already seem to be a super competitve process, so if more places in med school mean more people that don't match in the end, then its not a positive thing at all, imo.

[capoo]

28 minutes ago, MaudeB said:

If there are 140 more students admitted, I hope there will be an adjustment in the residency spots also. Carms already seem to be a super competitve process, so if more places in med school mean more people that don't match in the end, then its not a positive thing at all, imo.

There are tons of unfilled rural FM spots each and every year, so this is the government's strategy to fill those rural spots. Also, they have specifically mentioned that the motive behind this increase in places is because of the lack of accessibility of care for the general population, and the lack of family doctors. So no, I don't see an increase in specialty spots anytime soon.

[Médicomage]

Also, most of the 54 extra spots of next year will be for uLaval because they will open a new campus in Lévis and one in Rimouski : https://www.fmed.ulaval.ca/faculte-et-reseau/a-surveiller/nouvelles/detail-dune-nouvelle/le-doctorat-de-medecine-aussi-offert-a-levis-et-rimouski-des-2022/

You can see the number of spots for each speciality here for up to 2025 : https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/professionnels/documents/prem/medecine-specialisee/toutes_specialites_2021-02-02.pdf

[folklore]

On 1/2/2021 at 7:55 PM, Médicomage said:

All is here: https://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/ministere/salle-de-presse/communique-2120/

Je me demande, ces augmentations voudraient dire quoi pour le nombre de places dans les programmes pré-med pour collégiens? (Med-P et anné prep UdeM)

[capoo]

6 minutes ago, folklore said:

Je me demande, ces augmentations voudraient dire quoi pour le nombre de places dans les programmes pré-med pour collégiens? (Med-P et anné prep UdeM)

Ces places sont réparties pour la prémed à UdeM aussi, selon la proportion des gens admis en prémed vs 1re année de med (ex: si 60% des gens admis rentrent en prémed, 60% des places rajoutées seront consacrées aux prémeds)!

McGill utilise une approche différente pour leur programme, ils consacrent TOUTES les nouvelles places aux universitaires (et des prémeds au campus Outaouais aussi je crois), aucune nouvelle place n'est rajoutée aux prémeds au campus Montréal.

[MaudeB]

1 hour ago, keipop said:

There are tons of unfilled rural FM spots each and every year, so this is the government's strategy to fill those rural spots. Also, they have specifically mentioned that the motive behind this increase in places is because of the lack of accessibility of care for the general population, and the lack of family doctors. So no, I don't see an increase in specialty spots anytime soon.

The rural spots are prem or residency spots? I know there are a lot of inoccupied prem im regions. Its the residency spots that I find more concerning, since there are lots of student that already don't match in a residency spot every year.

[capoo]

2 hours ago, MaudeB said:

The rural spots are prem or residency spots? I know there are a lot of inoccupied prem im regions. Its the residency spots that I find more concerning, since there are lots of student that already don't match in a residency spot every year.

Both iirc. And also, there's almost no correlation between unfilled (FM) residency spots and unmatched candidates, because most unmatched candidates are normally not interested in FM and thus didn't apply for it (so some people gunning for RCPC/RCSC specialties would still go unmatched despite having all of the unfilled FM spots in the world available to them). There's also the problem of residency directors not liking candidates who are clearly applying to FM as a backup (ex: applying to FM with all of their electives in orthopedic surgery or something like that), so that also contributes to the problem of FM spots going unmatched every year.

[MaudeB]

1 hour ago, keipop said:

Both iirc. And also, there's almost no correlation between unfilled (FM) residency spots and unmatched candidates, because most unmatched candidates are normally not interested in FM and thus didn't apply for it (so some people gunning for RCPC/RCSC specialties would still go unmatched despite having all of the unfilled FM spots in the world available to them). There's also the problem of residency directors not liking candidates who are clearly applying to FM as a backup (ex: applying to FM with all of their electives in orthopedic surgery or something like that), so that also contributes to the problem of FM spots going unmatched every year.

Thanks so much @keipop for the precisions!! I find it very sad that people go unmatched because they apply to FM as a backup... So what if they are more interested in ortho? Matching in a specialty seems so competitive, its so normal that people also apply to FM. The director should not be influenced by that in my opinion, as they would still make amazing FM doctor! I cannot imagine that after 4 grueling years in med school, those candidates go unmatched.

[capoo]

5 hours ago, MaudeB said:

Thanks so much @keipop for the precisions!! I find it very sad that people go unmatched because they apply to FM as a backup... So what if they are more interested in ortho? Matching in a specialty seems so competitive, its so normal that people also apply to FM. The director should not be influenced by that in my opinion, as they would still make amazing FM doctor! I cannot imagine that after 4 grueling years in med school, those candidates go unmatched.

That's indeed sad, but if we were to play devil's advocate, on the other hand, I'm sure that directors want to have committed and motivated residents in their program in order to maximise their training potential. For example, I think program directors would by far prefer training 5 residents who really want to be there, are really interested in what they are doing and are motivated to learn more, versus training those 5 same residents plus 3 other residents who never considered FM, hate being there, and are looking at every opportunity possible to jump ship (thus adding extra "dead weight" according to them). Personally, I do not think most FM backups are like that (some really do learn to appreciate FM during their residency), but if programs don't want to look past this fact, oh well.