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where does the all average med end up?


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Not every program can get "exceptional people" just based on the numbers. Less desirable programs in less desirable locations still need residents to support service demands. You may not be able to get into a small specialty in Toronto but you can probably get into a field with a lot of spots in non-popular locations. I don't even mean super rural centres (which can be super competitive themselves) but academic centres that are not the usual centres of the world.

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A lot end up at excellent programs too, in Canada - aside from location, most programs are fairly similar in quality...so I wouldn't worry about it.

The definition of "exceptional people" varies by program and specialty. Some colleagues from med school that i thought were exceptional did not match to the places i thought they would, while others that I would not let treat my own family, ended up in surprising places in competitive specialties. Too much variability to spend too much time thinking about this biased qualitative nonsense. Just do your best, work hard, be nice, and you'll get where you need to get to.

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44 minutes ago, JohnGrisham said:

A lot end up at excellent programs too, in Canada - aside from location, most programs are fairly similar in quality...so I wouldn't worry about it.

The definition of "exceptional people" varies by program and specialty. Some colleagues from med school that i thought were exceptional did not match to the places i thought they would, while others that I would not let treat my own family, ended up in surprising places in competitive specialties. Too much variability to spend too much time thinking about this biased qualitative nonsense. Just do your best, work hard, be nice, and you'll get where you need to get to.

 

OP.. tbh, i feel the difference between satisfactory and outstanding is how much my preceptor enjoyed working with me ( which was super subjective)... 50% of my clerkship is satisfactory and 50% outstanding and I think my outstanding evaluations were super subjective ( I definitely did not have outstanding knowledge or skills but I know how to establish good rapport with people). I am applying to "competitive" speciality and was told that no body cares about your clerkship evaluation that much, what really helps you with "competitive specialities" are your LoR... so dont worry about just being average in clerkship as long as you have STRONG LoR saying you are the most hardest working /efficient student they worked with or something along these lines etc.

 

@JohnGrisham I don't know many "satisfactory applicants" ending up in very competitive programs in competitive locations! You have to be outstanding in some other way, perhaps these individuals had outstanding LoR.

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11 hours ago, lovemedicinesomuch said:

I don't know many "satisfactory applicants" ending up in very competitive programs in competitive locations! You have to be outstanding in some other way, perhaps these individuals had outstanding LoR.

My point was, "satisfactory" or "outstanding" are very subjective and not uniform.  And luck of the draw, and for trainees not to internalize these terms as some definitive goal posts. People underplay the huge luck factor in the process. 

 

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2 hours ago, JohnGrisham said:

My point was, "satisfactory" or "outstanding" are very subjective and not uniform.  And luck of the draw, and for trainees not to internalize these terms as some definitive goal posts. People underplay the huge luck factor in the process. 

 

I totally agree that luck is such a huge factor. 

Praying every day to the heavens, gods, higher powers for a good CaRMs match!!!!!!

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21 hours ago, JohnGrisham said:

A lot end up at excellent programs too, in Canada - aside from location, most programs are fairly similar in quality...so I wouldn't worry about it.

The definition of "exceptional people" varies by program and specialty. Some colleagues from med school that i thought were exceptional did not match to the places i thought they would, while others that I would not let treat my own family, ended up in surprising places in competitive specialties. Too much variability to spend too much time thinking about this biased qualitative nonsense. Just do your best, work hard, be nice, and you'll get where you need to get to.

Yup - of course they want the exceptional (whatever that is - and it is not easy to define). 

As always focus on what you can control - doing anything else is a distraction. We have on purpose created a subjective system and that will always create some unpredictable results. You can still control how hard you work, apply as broadly as you can, and selectively backup with things if that works with your particular circumstances. CARMS is and will always be very stressful - we have made it even more stressful I think even over time. Most people still get something they want in the end mind you. 

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I also wonder what the deviation on clerkship evaluations are like... seems like everyone gets "good to above average" results, but no one is scoring "perfectly" the way we did in our undergrad classes. It's not even comparable, I don't think.

But on the other hand, I also worry a lot about CaRMS... just not my clerkship evals as much ahaha

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On 1/6/2021 at 12:40 PM, JohnGrisham said:

My point was, "satisfactory" or "outstanding" are very subjective and not uniform.  And luck of the draw, and for trainees not to internalize these terms as some definitive goal posts. People underplay the huge luck factor in the process. 

 

This is quite true. Outstanding is subjective. I remember in my year of medical school, there were a few "all-star" plastic surgery gunners who everyone thought would get a spot. The one who got the spot was not the one our colleagues thought would, and the others went unmatched. Likewise, some people who had challenges with their social skills, to phrase it collegially, had matched to seemingly prestigious programs! 

This is not to imply we have no control over any of the variables in the process. But excellency is subjective, and a "good" medical student to one program may be rated as "outstanding" to another. Of course, vice versa applies too.

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