COVID-19 vaccine petition - QUEBEC

[bellejolie]

hello all - people in my class have put together a petition for the vaccination of medical students and the poor rollout that has happened here in quebec. we are looking to garner support from residents, other medical students across the country and even staff! the more voices the better. the big hospital here basically said there are no plans to vaccinate students. 

we know there is a shortage, and we're not asking to jump the line, we're just asking to be prioritized in the same way as any other healthcare professional is, and not at the bottom of the list. it is unethical for them to vaccinate all ICU staff, nurses, residents and PABs but leave out the students who see covid patients and are at just as high of a risk. please consider lending your support.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NRJMRIayePAbsj3iUrVJ2fMazq9tymp6Nn77ZP4wTU4/edit

[bellejolie]

just bumping this - we have changed the wording a little bit and have students from 3 universities plus residents who have signed, so if you're interested and are feeling the same way as a med student in another university in canada (or just want to support the cause), please consider signing and helping us!

[Jarisch]

I am not against medical students being vaccinated in a higher priority sequence than the general population. I think in the sense that our system needs to generate competent medical student graduates to begin residency, you are also an essential component of the workforce.

However, can you consider the timing of this petition and the specifics of your request bit more carefully? In terms of timing, there is a national, critical shortage of vaccines right now affecting everyone. Even if they wanted to supply vaccines to students, they could not do so because the supply across the country currently does not exist. 

Second, your request that students be prioritized "the same way as any other medical professional is" is probably not exactly fair. Many of my nursing colleagues who work in the ICU with COVID patients have not yet had their first dose. Our local ICU is still >50% COVID. All the IM residents in my program on the front lines have either not had their dose or had their second dose cancelled, and we are routinely assessing and admitting high-risk patients. Medical students at my institution are still sheltered from these higher risk exposures. They will never 'need' to see a COVID +ve patient whereas many residents/nurses/attendings have no choice. I think that is a fairly big fundamental difference with respect to risk and therefore vaccine prioritization.

If your provincial/local prioritization excludes students completely, I think that is wrong. But I think the timing of your petition needs to be delayed as 1) there are no vaccines now and this comes off as somewhat naive to that reality and 2)  medical students should likely be prioritized lower than other practitioners who are at the highest level of risk 

[bread]

16 hours ago, Jarisch said:

I am not against medical students being vaccinated in a higher priority sequence than the general population. I think in the sense that our system needs to generate competent medical student graduates to begin residency, you are also an essential component of the workforce.

However, can you consider the timing of this petition and the specifics of your request bit more carefully? In terms of timing, there is a national, critical shortage of vaccines right now affecting everyone. Even if they wanted to supply vaccines to students, they could not do so because the supply across the country currently does not exist. 

Second, your request that students be prioritized "the same way as any other medical professional is" is probably not exactly fair. Many of my nursing colleagues who work in the ICU with COVID patients have not yet had their first dose. Our local ICU is still >50% COVID. All the IM residents in my program on the front lines have either not had their dose or had their second dose cancelled, and we are routinely assessing and admitting high-risk patients. Medical students at my institution are still sheltered from these higher risk exposures. They will never 'need' to see a COVID +ve patient whereas many residents/nurses/attendings have no choice. I think that is a fairly big fundamental difference with respect to risk and therefore vaccine prioritization.

If your provincial/local prioritization excludes students completely, I think that is wrong. But I think the timing of your petition needs to be delayed as 1) there are no vaccines now and this comes off as somewhat naive to that reality and 2)  medical students should likely be prioritized lower than other practitioners who are at the highest level of risk 

I can’t speak to how things are at all other schools, but med students at my & some of my friends’ schools have been seeing confirmed covid + patients now, and have even been assigned to the covid ward. We’ve also been seeing suspected covid patients since coming back in early summer (including those with symptoms + a known exposure), and most, if not all, of us have seen and swabbed patients who ended up being positive. In environments like the emerge, we are often the member of the team spending the most time assessing our patients. We have been sheltered to a degree by some residents and attendings in some areas when a covid + patient comes in, but my experience has been that our exposure is still pretty high, and especially since now seeing confirmed positive patients. This isn’t a complaint at all - we are really happy to be able to continue being in the clinical environment since coming back after the initial wave. And both our faculty and the hospital have been great with communicating that med students will be vaccinated with the other hospital staff (hopefully in the next few weeks).  
 

The shortages are a (perhaps not surprising) problem, and beyond the control of hospitals or medical schools or government. A lot of people here have also been delayed in receiving their second dose. Many other frontline workers in high-risk areas have not even received their first. I wish very much that this was a faster process for everyone. My impression is not that med students want to jump the line, just that they would like the opportunity to be included with other hospital workers (ex. if everyone in emerge is getting it right now, not to deliberately exclude med students who are also in emerge). 

[bellejolie]

14 hours ago, Jarisch said:

I am not against medical students being vaccinated in a higher priority sequence than the general population. I think in the sense that our system needs to generate competent medical student graduates to begin residency, you are also an essential component of the workforce.

However, can you consider the timing of this petition and the specifics of your request bit more carefully? In terms of timing, there is a national, critical shortage of vaccines right now affecting everyone. Even if they wanted to supply vaccines to students, they could not do so because the supply across the country currently does not exist. 

Second, your request that students be prioritized "the same way as any other medical professional is" is probably not exactly fair. Many of my nursing colleagues who work in the ICU with COVID patients have not yet had their first dose. Our local ICU is still >50% COVID. All the IM residents in my program on the front lines have either not had their dose or had their second dose cancelled, and we are routinely assessing and admitting high-risk patients. Medical students at my institution are still sheltered from these higher risk exposures. They will never 'need' to see a COVID +ve patient whereas many residents/nurses/attendings have no choice. I think that is a fairly big fundamental difference with respect to risk and therefore vaccine prioritization.

If your provincial/local prioritization excludes students completely, I think that is wrong. But I think the timing of your petition needs to be delayed as 1) there are no vaccines now and this comes off as somewhat naive to that reality and 2)  medical students should likely be prioritized lower than other practitioners who are at the highest level of risk 

1. the timing of it was important because everyone was outlining their plans for vaccinating staff, nurses, PABs and residents and leaving us behind. we acknowledge the difficulty with supply, but when you hear about non patient facing staff getting it, it's quite frustrating. also all the med students and residents on the french side were all vaccinated.

2. if you read the wording - we're asking to be prioritized like anyone who has the same exposure - my school doesn't allow med students to be on covid wards, but this isn't the case everywhere as you can see above at University of Ottawa. we're often seen as disposable and not a priority because we're not employed, have no union etc.

3. we received shipments this week and our school (have no clue if it was due to the petition or not, but one week and nearly 200 signatures later), all students in clerkship are being vaccinated by sunday so it seemed to have worked.

As residents, nurses, whoever it is, you all should be fighting too, and if you write a petition and need a signature i will be happy to sign on. the point was, there wasn't a plan for us, and there was for everyone else. we are rotating in ICU, ER, geri etc and it's hard for us to say especially when we're going through carms, that we dont want to see a covid patient. unlike you guys, we have no sick leave, no paid disability, no union, and risk graduating etc if we get sick. we also rotate between hospitals much more than other employees and astrazeneca's vaccine for instance was just studied and shown to cut transmission down by 1/2. i'm sure the others do similar things. 

Hope this clarifies our position. 

[bread]

2 hours ago, bellejolie said:3. we received shipments this week and our school (have no clue if it was due to the petition or not, but one week and nearly 200 signatures later), all students in clerkship are being vaccinated by sunday so it seemed to have worked.

This is really great news!! 

[ma17]

4 hours ago, bellejolie said:

1. the timing of it was important because everyone was outlining their plans for vaccinating staff, nurses, PABs and residents and leaving us behind. we acknowledge the difficulty with supply, but when you hear about non patient facing staff getting it, it's quite frustrating. also all the med students and residents on the french side were all vaccinated.

2. if you read the wording - we're asking to be prioritized like anyone who has the same exposure - my school doesn't allow med students to be on covid wards, but this isn't the case everywhere as you can see above at University of Ottawa. we're often seen as disposable and not a priority because we're not employed, have no union etc.

3. we received shipments this week and our school (have no clue if it was due to the petition or not, but one week and nearly 200 signatures later), all students in clerkship are being vaccinated by sunday so it seemed to have worked.

As residents, nurses, whoever it is, you all should be fighting too, and if you write a petition and need a signature i will be happy to sign on. the point was, there wasn't a plan for us, and there was for everyone else. we are rotating in ICU, ER, geri etc and it's hard for us to say especially when we're going through carms, that we dont want to see a covid patient. unlike you guys, we have no sick leave, no paid disability, no union, and risk graduating etc if we get sick. we also rotate between hospitals much more than other employees and astrazeneca's vaccine for instance was just studied and shown to cut transmission down by 1/2. i'm sure the others do similar things. 

Hope this clarifies our position. 

Congrats! I had a similar reaction to your post as Jarisch at first but I assume they didn't read your entire petition. Your position is explained well and is fair.