(Neurosurg) Realistic advice about job prospects

[carmsinoid]

5 hours ago, Edict said:

1) It is possible and there are people who don't even have a PhD, in the US they care more about fellowship and clinical abilities, networking is important so some US experience is helpful

I was under the impression that grad degrees and research are even more important in the US compared to Canada? (Or perhaps it's just the ones willing to hire Canadians.) Their residency is the same amount of clinical time as here - that extra year is in protected research time.

[Edict]

5 minutes ago, carmsinoid said:

I was under the impression that grad degrees and research are even more important in the US compared to Canada? (Or perhaps it's just the ones willing to hire Canadians.) Their residency is the same amount of clinical time as here - that extra year is in protected research time.

No not necessarily, overall, I can say that it varies greatly by institution. A highly academic institution like Harvard would definitely value research, and not just I did a PhD but no longer have an interest in it, but a research program you would be able to run. However, because the US is still a private healthcare system, compensation is based on what you provide which is clinical care and so the vast majority of institutions just care that you can do your job well.

Overall, for surgery, most surgeons in the US won't have a PhD, many have post-doctoral research fellowships or masters but to a lesser extent than in Canada. I would say that its not what you've done but more what you can do that they care about and overall, most jobs prioritize clinical work because that is what brings income to hospitals, research doesn't really bring in income unless you are able to get grants (hard to do for most). 

If you really look at it the number of true surgeon-scientists running a funded lab is diminishing all over the world including the US. Only a few academic centers even have these surgeon-scientists and even then for a roster of 10 surgeons at a center maybe 1 to 3 will actually run a lab even in the most academic of centers. For most of the other academic centers, 0-1 will have a lab and people are mostly doing clinical research, industry, education etc. The community centers only care about operative skills and whether you are a good fit. 

[Jack Marcos]

Updated Question:

Has anyone heard of the neurosurgeon that transferred from a Canadian neurosurg residency to Yale neurosurg residency? I was wondering how possible this path is since it would be a great option to decide to complete residency in the US (if Canadian job market is still looking rough during your Canadian residency) and be able to become board certified in the US. 
 

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/no-time-to-wait-doctor-moves-his-practice-to-the-u-s-continues-seeing-lots-of-canadian-patients

[Edict]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:15 PM, Jack Marcos said:

Updated Question:

Has anyone heard of the neurosurgeon that transferred from a Canadian neurosurg residency to Yale neurosurg residency? I was wondering how possible this path is since it would be a great option to decide to complete residency in the US (if Canadian job market is still looking rough during your Canadian residency) and be able to become board certified in the US. 
 

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/no-time-to-wait-doctor-moves-his-practice-to-the-u-s-continues-seeing-lots-of-canadian-patients

That was years ago and maybe he just applied as a R1 or R2 for neurosurg in the US. Not sure if that would still be doable these days. I haven't heard of that happening recently, back in the day a lot of people from McGill would go to the US, even these days there are some Canadians in the US who have transferred into residency at McGill, not sure how it all works, but I wouldn't count on it per say.

I think no matter what anyone says, if you work hard and are reasonably good, you can find a way to get a job in the US or Canada. On the flip side, there are a lot of people who just aren't really prepared for the rigours and some leave early, while others insist on sticking it through only to find out later that jobs aren't really there for them. It really comes down to who you are. Residency challenges people in a way that medical school admissions and medical school itself doesn't.

[Jack Marcos]

11 minutes ago, Edict said:

That was years ago and maybe he just applied as a R1 or R2 for neurosurg in the US. Not sure if that would still be doable these days. I haven't heard of that happening recently, back in the day a lot of people from McGill would go to the US, even these days there are some Canadians in the US who have transferred into residency at McGill, not sure how it all works, but I wouldn't count on it per say.

I think no matter what anyone says, if you work hard and are reasonably good, you can find a way to get a job in the US or Canada. On the flip side, there are a lot of people who just aren't really prepared for the rigours and some leave early, while others insist on sticking it through only to find out later that jobs aren't really there for them. It really comes down to who you are. Residency challenges people in a way that medical school admissions and medical school itself doesn't.

Makes sense, thanks for the info!