How competitive is ophthalmology (or neurology -> neuro-ophthalmology), and how much research do I need to be the slightest bit competitive?

[helpmeplz]

Am MS1 (a fetus compared to yall, I know). Doing my neurology block rn, and fell in love with ocular stuff and all of its neurological aspect (never expected to like it that much, therefore had no research experience whatsoever). Not particularly interested with surgery (like, I’m interested with LASIK, glaucoma, cataracts, retinal surgery but I’m just not ride-or-die about it like most ophthalmo gunners). So, I just want to know what to expect in the near future ahaha, or if it’s too late and switching to optometry would be a better idea at this point should I want to pursue a career in ocular health.

Thank you

[bearded frog]

In 2020 94 people applied for 37 spots, 75 of them as their first choice. So just over 2 applicants for every spot. By that metric it is the most compeditive specialty, more than dermatology and plastic surgery. That's not to say that starting now you can't match, but if you are set on optho then strongly consider taking time off in med school to do a master's degree and research in optho. I don't think neurology is nearly as compeditive but I can't comment on neurooptho.

[CaRMS2021]

Pretty sure neuroophthalmology is a fellowship of ophthalmology and you can't go to it from Neuro.

[MSWschnoodle]

8 minutes ago, CaRMS2021 said:

Pretty sure neuroophthalmology is a fellowship of ophthalmology and you can't go to it from Neuro.

In clerkship I worked with a neurologist who did a fellowship in neuro-ophthalmology but things may have changed since they trained... I'm also not sure what in the ophthalmology world was opened up to them with that fellowship (I was on a ward-based neuro rotation so they were just doing ward stuff that week)

[dooogs]

45 minutes ago, bearded frog said:

In 2020 94 people applied for 37 spots, 75 of them as their first choice. So just over 2 applicants for every spot. By that metric it is the most compeditive specialty, more than dermatology and plastic surgery. That's not to say that starting now you can't match, but if you are set on optho then strongly consider taking time off in med school to do a master's degree and research in optho. I don't think neurology is nearly as compeditive but I can't comment on neurooptho.

Im curious if the master's degree is good because of the publications or you get some sort of extra points because you have a masters degree? 

[CaRMS2021]

17 minutes ago, MSWschnoodle said:

In clerkship I worked with a neurologist who did a fellowship in neuro-ophthalmology but things may have changed since they trained... I'm also not sure what in the ophthalmology world was opened up to them with that fellowship (I was on a ward-based neuro rotation so they were just doing ward stuff that week)

If he has that background I assumed he did purely neuroophthalmology and no surgical aspect

[MSWschnoodle]

3 minutes ago, CaRMS2021 said:

If he has that background I assumed he did purely neuroophthalmology and no surgical aspect

I honestly have no idea. Since OP isn't ride or die for the surgical part of ophthalmology I tossed it out there because it might be possible for them to get to neuro-opth via the neurology route. As always: OP, YMMV so best strategy is to fire off a few emails to neurologists and neuro-opthalmologists to see what the options look like :-)

Best of luck in medical school!

[helpmeplz]

Correct, I am mostly interested in managing patients with glaucoma/macular degeneration/retina problems/cortical blindness/etc. kinda stuff, I mean I like surgery but I appreciate diagnosing and managing the neurological aspects of vision more than doing 817391x cataracts cases per day. That said, I don’t think that I’m ready to pursue a MSc between year 2 and 3 of med school (I’m from Quebec so I only did one year of uni before coming to med), but if it’s my only option to make myself the slightest bit competitive I might try looking into it

But if I were to be interested with neurology (really considering it even if it means I can’t do clinical neuro-ophthalmology), how competitive is it?

[bearded frog]

17 hours ago, dooogs said:

Im curious if the master's degree is good because of the publications or you get some sort of extra points because you have a masters degree? 

Both... Ideally you would be doing research in ophthalmology with ophthalmologists who can network/write LORs, publishing ophthalmology research in ophthalmology or high impact general medical journals. That might not be enough. I would highly encourage you to reach out to your local ophthalmology program to see if you can meet with staff/residents to find out if you would be a good candidate and what you would have to do to be compeditive.

[Aetherus]

18 hours ago, CaRMS2021 said:

Pretty sure neuroophthalmology is a fellowship of ophthalmology and you can't go to it from Neuro.

The misinformation on this thread is significant. 

Neuro-Ophthalmology is a fellowship that can be entered from both Ophthalmology or Neurology. It is no considered a competitive subspecialty to enter as there are generally more spots than applicants, although almost all programs are offered in the USA.

Neuro-Ophthalmology focuses on the treatment of Afferent and Efferent disorders of the Eye-Brain Axis. The bread and butter things you will see are Optic Neuropathies, Disc Oedema, Strabismus, Nerve Palsies etc. You will not be managing glaucoma macular degeneration etc as a Neuro-Ophthalmologist.

The difference between Ophthalmology trained and Neurology trained Neuro-Ophtho is mainly what you do around Neuro-Ophtho. As an Ophthalmologist, you can continue to have a comprehensive practice and see Cataracts, Glaucoma etc. As a Neurologist, you can combine with another subspecialty such as Neuro-Otology, MS, Neuro-Immunology, Stroke etc. If you want to have a surgical component to your practice, than you must go through Ophthalmology. If you don't want to operate, you can go through either one.

In terms of matching to Ophthalmology, you do not need to take a year off to do a masters etc. Just use your summers to liaise with Ophthalmologist and do research. Elective performance is important as well. 

If you have any specific questions, feel free to message me privately and I can probably answer most of your questions.